The Heathen band Norsewind was removed from the Philadelphia Pagan Pride Day (PPPD) schedule after being labeled a White Nationalist [Supremacist] band. In August, Antifa Philadelphia, a “collective of militant anti-fascists committed to opposing the rise of the far-right,” contacted the organizers of PPPD. They claimed that Norsewind, a band scheduled to play at the Aug. 30 event, had “strong ties to the Keystone State Skinheads” and labeled them a White Nationalist band. PPPD promptly dropped the band from its event and issued a statement saying that the organizers find “hate and intolerance in any form abhorrent.”
![From L to R: Anna Hagalaz, Danjul Norse, Paul Fredericks [photo credit Norsewind facebook page]](https://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/norsewind-photo-500x384.jpg)
From L to R: Anna Hagalaz, Danjul Norse, Paul Fredericks [Courtesy of Norsewind Facebook page]
Antifa posted the information that it sent to PPPD on Tumblr. It is titled Norsewind and their ties to Neo-Nazi hate groups. Antifa lists known White Supremacists that are Facebook friends of the band members. It also documents that the band had played for the White Supremacist group Keystone United at a private event on at least two separate occasions. Keystone United describes itself as having the goal of “uniting all racially aware skinheads in the state of Pennsylvania.”
Lead singer Danjul Norse doesn’t dispute that the band played for Keystone United. He also says that, after Antifa posted the article, he looked up and confirmed that he is Facebook friends with the persons listed. However, he strongly disputes that the band has any racist ideology or personal ties with White Supremacists.
In an interview with The Wild Hunt, Danjul explains,”Our band is non-political, we don’t have any politics.” He goes on to say, ”I’m not a White Supremacist; I’m not for that at all. I don’t share those views. I don’t judge people on their politics. I don’t hate anyone. I have no hate in me. I have love for all people. Why can’t people just be people and love each other?”
Danjul adds that people like his band’s music and send him friend requests on Facebook. He then “friends” them back. He doesn’t personally know any of the people listed by Antifa. As for playing at a private Keystone United party, he says:
It was a job and we decided to do it. It’s a business for us and it was a festival dedicated to Leif Erikson and his voyage. There were no signs of White Supremacy or neo-Nazi or hate. It was just a BBQ and they treated me with respect and enjoyed our music. That was it. So when they asked us to play again last year, I thought, OK.
Danjul was surprised by the controversy and the threats of violence that he has received over the past two weeks. He adds that the PPPD board was also harassed with calls and emails by Antifa, even after the board removed Norsewind from the event schedule. He says:
[Antifa activists] said if we played, there would be skinheads in the crowd and they [Antifa activists] would start a riot. Who threatens violence? Why would they threaten a riot? PPPD told me to not even show up because they worried I’d be assaulted.
PPPD has not confirmed this allegation and was unavailable for further comment. Antifa, however, did say that there was no harassment adding:
The reality is that a brief e-mail exchange with some pictures made it perfectly clear that Norsewind and the people they were inviting to Pagan Pride Day were not in synch with their stated mission.
In its claims, Antifa notes that the band displayed a Nazi symbol, the black sun, on its album cover. While Antifa wasn’t able to show any specific racist statements or music by any single member of Norsewind the organization says:
Individually these issues might not seem like much, but when combined they appear to paint a fairly compelling picture of a man with many ties to white supremacy.
In response to these allegations, Danjul says that, although the band prefers to play for Pagans and Heathens, they will “play for anyone.” He adds:
Our message is for everyone. I don’t pick and choose. Not politics and not skin color. I just want people to hear my message of tradition and family. Perhaps it’ll influence them towards something positive. Or just make them laugh or be happy.
There is currently no word out yet on future events for the band or how this controversy will affect its future bookings.
[Update:The article was edited from its original form after new facts were brought to our attention. In addition, at the time of original publication, we were unable to reach anyone willing to go on record in counterpoint to the band’s claims. However, we will now be following up this article with an op-ed piece from Ryan Smith of Heathens United Against Racism.]
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Hmmm…..I have to say, as someone who is a Celtic/Norse reconstructionist, the “folkish” adjective has a lot of meaning in the heathen community. It’s widely perceived to be white supremacist. For a band to say that they are heathen and don’t know that is disingenuous.
If you friend someone on Facebook, their posts appear on your wall. I am careful not to be FB friends with those who have racist posts. And as a musician, I would not play for a Folkish group if I were invited to. The whole thing about “can’t we all just be friends” is not going to work to curb racism in the Pagan community. IMO, Philly PPD made the right decision by taking a stand.
Yes…and no. I definitely have friends who don’t believe the same as I do—and I try to call them out on it (usually they’re sexist, rather than racist, assholes)—but I also have friends who rarely appear in my feed.
As a youtuber, I get friend requests all of the time from people I don’t know. I accept them all. At the same time I list them as “acquaintance” or other and then they don’t show up in my feed. If something does show up in my feed that I don’t like, I “unfollow” them. Which means we’re still friends, but I don’t see them. This way they can still be fans of what I’m posting, but that doesn’t mean that I know or support them. So, if the band is being honest, then I can sympathize with them.
really? going ape over who somebody has added to their FB?
Antifa Philadelphia apparently has a problem with anything labeled Neofolk.
One of my bandmates plays with Blood and Sun, and our band has played with them as well, and they have made claims that Blood and Sun is a neo-Nazi band, which is a complete lie. Antifa Philiadelphia is a reactionary group of people that don’t know what they’re talking about.
Covered faces? Beatings and slashed tires? That evokes cognitive dissonance when applied to a group whose name means “antifascism.” Can you provide some specifics, please?
I couldn’t find the article, but I recall reading on heathenharvest.org that one of their writers was assaulted and had his tires slashed as a result of attending a Death In June show in Chicago this past year.
If you look at any of their pages, many members have photos where they have their faces covered. One of these people posted on a music message board I frequent that a friend and fellow musician was a Nazi, and that he should not be allowed in a local coffeeshop/restaurant. Another anonymous coward. These people are creepy, they see neofolk and read it as Nazi.
From one of their pages:
“On June 24th 2013, antifascists shut down a show featuring American Noise musician Boyd Rice. The show was supposed to take place at the Empty Bottle in Chicago. Contrary to his tough guy internet talk, Boyd did not leave the safety of the venue one single time. Because of this, antifascists had to move to the next best thing. At around ten thirty, as Boyd Rice took the stage, a smoke device was let off bringing the show to an immediate end, as confirmed by multiple sources.”
Yes, of course, set off a smoke bomb, that’s reasonable behavior! And the show did not come to an end either. Set fire to a venue because you don’t like the performer. “Anti Fascist Action” indeed.
Dude Boyd Rice is a NOTORIOUS neo-Nazi musician whose music actively promotes racist hate and mysoginistic violence:
http://www.whomakesthenazis.com/2010/10/just-say-non-nazism-narcissism-and-boyd.html
And I have to question your source there seeing as a whole slew of evidence showing how often folks like Boyd Rice lie through their teeth to cater sympathy. Norsewind’s false claims of Philly Antifa alleging threats of skinhead violence are just one example on this of many.
Question all you like, a friend was at the show. I’m no fan of Rice but I’m also less of a fan of people who would set fire to a building and kill others due to someone’s questionable art.
Dude, you’re ridiculous. Please stop using ugly propagandist websites as sources. This same retarded (if entertaining) website even tells in susbtance that Freya Aswynn is a nazi. How serious is that?
http://www.whomakesthenazis.com/2011/07/searchlight-slimelight-club-hosts.html
Wait a second. A smoke bomb is NOT the same as setting fire to a venue. I’m not condoning the use of smoke bombs, but the connection you are making here is false and inflammatory. Any grain of fact that may be in your original statement is negated by your obvious manipulation of the truth here.
true, but setting a smoke bomb in a music venue could cause panic and people to get injured or worse. So usually only scum would do that
And that’s fine. Again, not condoning the action. My issue is the exaggeration to the point of dishonesty. Yes, smoke bombs can be dangerous. But he said that the group “set fire to a venue”, which did not happen. That was my point. Exaggerated lies serve no legitimate purpose, no matter which side you may think is “right” or “wrong”.
A smoke bomb is more inflammatory than my statement.
You don’t think a smoke bomb can cause a fire? I don’t think these “activists” give a shit if people die or not.
I never said it couldn’t. But that’s not the point. I’m calling you out on your dishonest phrasing of the situation. You said that the group “set fire to a venue”. That was a ridiculous lie.
I said “would set fire to a building” Perhaps my language is not ham-fisted enough for you to understand.
If you cannot see any connection between setting off an incendiary device and a fire, I cannot understand it for you.
Nevertheless, the point is that these idiots think it’s fine to set off a smoke bomb in a club. If you think that’s cool, maybe you can join these brave anti-racist warriors.
No, you didn’t say “would”. You said: “And the show did not come to an end either. Set fire to a venue because you don’t like the performer. ”
Again, I said straight up that I didn’t condone the action. My issue is your dishonesty. Bringing it back to the action is a straw man. I’m calling you out for being a liar.
You may not “think” that those activists don’t give a shit, but that’s your unqualified opinion, and your opinion does not give you the right to lie about the facts of a situation.
You do have reading comprehension problems. I can explain it to you ad nauseum, but you will still go in circles saying that I am claiming that they burned the entire city to the ground or some other garbage. I never in any of my posts claimed that these antifa clowns burned the building down, or set it on fire. Do you not understand how conversations work in posting messages and/or verbal communication?
Call me a liar? Okay, I’m calling you an idiot and I have no further need to respond to your ignorance.
You can call me whatever you like. Your own words illustrate my point clearly. You’re just continuing on with your lies and exaggerations here. May I suggest getting out more?
You might be right, but we know how antifa are, and the tactics they use. They generally don’t care about destroying private property and cause harm to other. That might be the reason this shortcut was taken.
Actually, “we” don’t agree with that at all. I’ve known a few different antifa groups, and they varied widely in tactics and philosophy. I try not to make assumptions about folks unless i know for a fact what they’re up to. What you think antifa’s intentions may be still does not justify Zom lying in his post.
Maybe not, but you seem to acknowledge the fact that there are indeed antifa groups that would not be afraid of using such tactics. Am I right?
So I’m told, especially in Europe. But I’ve never seen those tactics used first-hand, and I’ve been around the activist scene for quite a while, so again, I’m not going to make assumptions about folks unless I know for a fact what they’re up to. Trying to paint me into a corner is not going to work.
Hey, I have nothing against you, I just know for a fact that, at least in Europe, antifa can be pretty violent, that’s all. As far as I know you have nothing to do with all of this so I don’t think there’s a problem here.
There was no anti-fascist violence in this case. Simply that a band– who wants to be in both worlds– was canceled.
Good article. Fair and well written.
Sounds like Antifa Philly is looking for any tenuous links as an admission of guilt, and PPPD knee-jerked the decision to pull them from the lineup. Too bad for the band, and their inability to pursue their craft in front of other pagans.
That’s how they have always operated.
There’s a problem with people jumping at everything that even smells like white supremacism…unfortunately lots of Germanic symbolism has been appropriated by them. There needs to be more nuance and research before people jump to conlusions. (And before people make their own conclusions about my opinion: white supremacism = bad)
On the other hand, you (general ‘you’) are being a bit naive and also wilfully ignorant if you state that you want to be a-political and not make a stance about anything. You might come into contact with people who hold very problematic views – then what do you do? When you ignore something, it doesn’t go away.
In this case I think Philly Antifa has the right of it for a number of reasons:
1) The Black Sun they refer to is NOT some long-lost, commonly used ancient symbol. The Black Sun they use comes straight from the Wewelsburg Black Sun which adorned the castle floor of the ritual room used in the SS headquarters in Castle Wewelsburg which was itself not of ancient origin and only consistently pops up with white supremacist and white supremacist friendly self-proclaimed Heathen and Pagan groups.
2) The Keystone State Skinheads are a VERY notorious, violent racist skinhead group who has been active for a number of years. For Norsewind to be totally unaware of this fact is either willful ignorance (which says nothing good) or outright deception on their part.
3) It wasn’t one show they did for money like Norsewind is claiming. It was MULTIPLE gigs stretching back to 2009, over five years. Taking neo-Nazi money that long and not seeing ANYTHING going on stretches credulity to the breaking point.
Cara Shulz really did a disservice to Philly Antifa by NOT properly reporting all the facts and evidence they dug up, something anyone with some time and an internet browser could have easily done.
Speaking of internet browsing:
“The Black Sun they refer to is NOT some long-lost, commonly used ancient symbol.”
Do a Google Image search on the German tern “Zierscheibe,” and you will see a number of images of similar symbols, mostly in cast bronze, dating to around the 7th century.
As with a number of other symbols, I think it is rather narrow-minded to suspect that, because a particular symbol has been misused in the past, that anyone using it now must be suspected of sympathizing with that misuse.
Every meaningful ancient symbol has been misused and abused in innumerable ways by modern political and religious movements — movements that have no right, and no power, to redefine these sacred symbols – any more than they can take away concepts like honor, heritage, justice and so forth.
Prior to their conversion to Christianity, Anglo-Saxons commonly used the fylfot/”swastika” as a symbol (likely to represent Þunor). I can imagine many modern Ænglisc Heathens would be comfortable using it nowadays.
The “tabooing” of symbols is power, and others do have that power.
Individually these issues might not seem like much, but when combined they appear to paint a fairly compelling picture of a man with many ties to white supremacy.This is the core of what makes me queasy about all this. How much guilt by association has to be piled up to become significant? One the one hand, demanding courtroom-level proof may be unrealistic. On the other hand, guilt by association has an absolutely terrible history in American politics (says the guy with living memory of Senator Joe McCarthy).The topic, of course, is not the metaphysics of indictment but racism in Paganism, and what to do about it. So for me the question is: Does the ejection of this band from this festival help diminish racism in Paganism? Or is Antifa Philly looking for isolation rather than diminution? Can we be simultaneously aware that the downstream results of this action affect the reputations of Norsewind and Philly Pagan Pride Day and Antifa?
It is a bad situation all around. As an event organizer, you would be damned no matter what action was taken (or lack of action). Ultimately, any group has to make a decision whether the potential association with something controversial is worth the relationship at hand. The band made their decisions (with their friends list and playing certain gigs). PPPD made a different one (deciding to disassociate with both “sides”).
Well, based on a cursory review of the Antifa Philadelphia blog, they seem pretty radical, and almost fanatical about their mission. Even the color code they use is no different than most neo-nazi groups (red, black and white).
That being said, they do post some interesting stuff about actions regarding abuses and assault, and the counter-meassures taken in every case.
Sure, they fight for justice, but their behavior raises a question:
When do they become what they persecute?
Red, black and white are also common colors for anarchist groups and some antifascist groups.
They become what they persecute when they state beliefs like “the white race is under threat” and “those people are inhuman/inferior”. Even if they are passionate, the question asked is incorrect in its implication, i.e. “when does this/these antifascist group(s) become fascist?” They don’t. Otherwise they are not antifascist.
That’s just plain stupid. Antifascists commonly use fascists tactics and reasoning. Saying they must be all right because they’re antifa is the same thing as saying a priest cannot do wrong.
I know antifascists and none of their tactics are those embraced by past fascists or modern neofascists.
You’re going to need to give some useful citations or some idea of what you mean when you write “use fascists tactics and reasoning” because the antifascist folks I know don’t. I don’t live in Europe, so I can’t comment in what regards antifa folks do or don’t use fascist tactics, but that accusation goes right against the grain of what it means to be antifascist.
You’re also putting words in my mouth and setting up straw men. Have fun knocking those down, but that is not what I am saying.
Well, I can only give you example for Europe, but I don’t think you’d care for links to articles in odd language you probably do not understand. Still, you can get these official documents, look at the annexes and see that, In Europe at least, there’s way more Far-left terrorism than its Far-right counterpart.
https://www.google.is/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.europol.europa.eu%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpublications%2Feuropoltsat.pdf&ei=-MgJVOe8EMWFONCQgegI&usg=AFQjCNG6rRgyVO7TqocHdsh_G_20pbXOSQ&bvm=bv.74649129,d.ZWU
https://www.google.is/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.europol.europa.eu%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpublications%2Feuropol_te-sat2013_lr_0.pdf&ei=_cgJVIjIHIboOpWbgUA&usg=AFQjCNEElsRid2qx7YpxRTwzk_7oxDkx3Q&bvm=bv.74649129,d.ZWU
Good point Baruch. The comparison with the “Witch-Hunt” of the Fifties is rather apt here. Imo, bands that want to be perceived as white-nationalists or nazi have no shame doing so, why then trying to use non-musical arguments to “condemn” a band?
Will people judge Wagner because he was anti-Semitic and try to stop the performance of his operas? Will people stop reading books and poetry from before 1968 because those who wrote them were probably racist, anti-semitic and patriarchists? Let’s be serious a moment, should we not be focusing to the main message an artist that is his art?
There’s a difference between recognizing the failings of individuals that are no longer able to either defend themselves or learn from their mistakes (or were products of their times) and actively voicing and taking a stand against it as it happens contemporaneously, though.
Anybody that is a a heathen and isn’t racist is a piece of shit
‘Racism’ is a natural love of that which is closer genetically to you. As such racism is a good thing and has kept us alive for millions of years. It is an integral part of the group survival instinct in all humans. It is part of nature. Nature favours diversity and uses the group survival instinct to promote and further diversity. It is ‘racism’ that causes us to love our children above all others, then our family, then our extended family and community. To tell us to ‘love’ strangers in the same way and to the same extent as we would love our own sounds good and righteous, but when analysed is perverse. The logical extension of this ‘equal love’ doctrine would make us extinct in a few generations. We would be prevented from showing any special care for our children. We would have to neglect them and look after others. To fail to show that extra love for our family and community would break the bonds of that community. It would cease to be a community and would collapse. ’Racism’ binds us together as a family and a community. It is not hate. It is passionate duty. It is selfless commitment to those we care for. It is love without lust. It is indeed the purest form of love. It is what makes life worth living. Without love we are nothing. Without love we are simply fodder for the tyrants, able to be manipulated and distracted by the trivia in an ever unfulfilled search to fill that hole in our souls which can only be filled by love of our own. Racism is love. ‘Anti racism’ is hate.”
I think people need to understand the difference between “white separatists/nationalists” and “supremacists”. There is a difference; I have friends in the former movement. While I don’t share their views, they are not hateful people per se. But if people continue to drive them into a corner and lump them in with hate groups, they will surely swing that way eventually.
I feel the problem with “white separatists/nationalists” is not only that they want to be separate, they also want to live with white privileges that they do not extend to people of color. And that is discrimination, which may appear dispassionate, but is really a means of denigration of others who are different. And that is what is hateful about it.
And what is the difference?
Do you really believe white separatism isn’t inherently racist at its core, or that separatists don’t truly believe themselves to be superior to the people of color they don’t want to associate with? And is it really the fault of the media or observers that nationalists and supremacists are lumped together, when they often have common cause and members who interact and move seamlessly between both movements? The differences between the two are tenuous at best, primarily semantics. Historians and researchers have been exploring these movements for decades, and the differences basically boil down to how willing a a person is to wear the mantle of “racist” with pride. Separatists are slightly more hesitant; that’s all.
and the quest to find nazis in everyones closet continues.
Aren’t you people tired of the endless subservient appeasement of a political group who’s sole mission is to crush “white people culture.”?
Seriously, antifa are alligned with terrorist muslim organizations, george soros organizations, and other things that actively promote the destruction of European cultures and peoples due to their “inherent racism that is genetic.”
http://unfaircampaign.org/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395
That last link is from the people who support and fund antifa groups around the world.
What they are saying is that European nations need to be destroyed. Homogeneity is their word for ethnic cultures. They don’t want there to be any more Germans, or Lithuanians, or Poles or English. They want there to be white people, and brown people. How fucking hard is it for everyone to get?
Antifa stands for the destruction of culture. When they act like this, fight them and tell them to fuck off. As Heathens our Gods would be ashamed of you for appeasing such evil and hateful ideologies.
How much longer are people going to get away with “playing dumb?” I mean, Keystone State Skinheads (their name before they figured that “skinheads” probably wasn’t the most media-friendly choice) has been a widely known neo-nazi gang since 2001. They have ties to extremely violent neo-nazi gangs like Vinlanders Social Club and Combat 18, and all of ten seconds on Google will provide enough evidence of that.
“Despite Antifa’s claims, the information, photos, and links don’t appear to support this.”
That 2013 Leif Erikson Day gig that they played for KSS– the same gig for which two of Norsewind’s members are wearing commemorative T-shirts on the Philly Antifa Blog– was a massive gathering of representatives from every single neo-nazi gang on the east coast. It had been denounced by both Heathens Against Hate and Heathens United Against Racism before the even took place, so even our community was well aware of the nature of this event. It was not and has never been an event concerned with any aspect of paganism, heathenry or an ounce of history– it’s always been organized by Keystone State Skinheads and they ALWAYS draw out the local neo-nazi boneheads. The aforementioned Combat 18, Vinlanders, Blood and Honour, and the Traditionalist Youth Network were all in attendance at both the rally at the Thorfinn Karlsfeni monument AND the afterparty where Norsewind played– and there are pictures all over the internet to prove it. The rally itself received mass protests from the Philadelphia community (like attendees from the regatta and race being held the same day) so any claim of ignorance of that day’s proceedings on their part is *extremely* suspect.
They didn’t see any “evidence” of “white supremacy or neo nazi or hate”? Combat 18 and Blood And Honour members routinely tattoo white supremacist slogans and symbols on their faces and necks, (like the oh-so-subtle motto “white power.”) and it’s highly unlikely that a whole room full of patched-in members of violent white supremacist gangs are suddenly going to cover every bit of their racist symbology for the benefit of *one band*.
Look, if you have a webpage or even a Facebook page, you are competent enough in the use of the internet to spend half of a minute and Google the organization for which you’re providing musical entertainment. If you find that they’re
an organization incompatible with your principles and morals, you’re entirely within your rights not to play for them. No one forced Norsewind to play for a room full of angry, drunken neo-nazis.
Ho Gods…antifa again…
I cannot really tell how it is in the US, but in Europe, where there is a really strong Leftist/Marxist tradition, those guys are just about everywhere…I thought that the more liberal political culture of the US would prevent the spread of such plague but it seems I was wrong.
My issue about Antifa are simple: They are Fascists. Quite simply. They fancy themselves to be heroic warriors “fighting the good fight” but almost always end up using terrorist-like tactics to intimidate everyone who do not agree with their skewed views.
On one hand, I support activists who are actually fight repressive governments but those antifa guys almost always tend to be upper middle class white kids with no knowledge of the real world whatsoever.
In Europe, those dudes tend to oppose just about everything related to European Heritage, may it be literature, music, commemorations, Paganism… They are especially focused on banning music that they consider “evil” or “nazi”. You guys have been mentioning Death in June and other Neofolk bands and I guess you then understand that wanting to ban concerts of such great bands is more than moronic.
Often, they will threaten with violence and at times will even go for it. In Europe nowadays, there is something like ten times more terrorist actions by Far-leftists than far-rightists. Her’s an example of an antifa demonstration in Sweden (the antifa were demonstrating against a far-right micro-parade): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulp-7gAot4w
I also oppose their view that if one member of a band has ever had any link to any form of far-right political party or ideology they must be discarded. A lot of great music and art has come from people with more than conservative ideology and as long as a band’s music is not outright propaganda (it rarely is) I see no problem supporting a band’s artistic creativity.
An example, a couple years ago, when I was in Finland, I had the opportunity to attend a concert of the Pagan Metal band Nokturnal Mortum from Ukraine. The band had a clear and acknowledged far-right past that they discarded years ago. They did indeed attract a couple moronic nazi but overall, most of the attendees were there for the music, which was beyond amazing. Here’s a live video for you to judge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T2H-YGmHSM
Regarding the present issue, The band’s music ain’t that good, DeVito is a moron that most Heathen despise and the Pagan Pride Organizers should not have chickened out.
They’re full of shit. This is precisely the same cack ‘non-political’ skinhead bands come out with when they get busted playing bonehead gigs. ‘I don’t judge people’s politics!’ ‘These antifascists are out of line!’ ‘Some of my friends are fags…well not my friends, but I think the guy in the off license down the road is bit queer lookin, so I know some!’
Admittedly, there have been instances in the past where antifascists in different parts of the world have been a bit overzealous and followed Chinese whispers rather than dig a bit deeper (I seem to recall Eluveitie have been accused once.) This is not one of those times.
Antifa Philly is full of shit. As a result of their idiocy, friends and bandmates have been accused of being Nazis and White Supremacists. They have disparaged events and bands many times and continue to do so.
I know nothing of this band, where they play or who they associate with. I just know that Antifa does not understand what Fascism is or what it means, and that Neofolk is not a racist movement.
Members of that band have been photographed at white power events, wearing white power t-shirts, and have social media connections to fascists. Also, please don’t pretend that neo-folk isn’t riddled with white power dickheads. It’s well documented, including on this site.
In the years I ran Raven Radio I dealt with the same thing.”Did you know that a person onRR friends list Skullripper McHeathen is racist?” Raven has over 3000 followers. This accusations for this band, and they have been on Raven Radio, is stupid. This is in he same realm as. You own a gun so you’re a mass murderer. You own matches so you’re an arsonist. You’re a female so since you have a vagina you’re a prostitute. You are a man. And with that penis you’re a rapist. They play good music. They don’t promote hatred. Grow up .
(Not to thread-jack, but I loved Raven Radio and miss it. Thanks so much to you and the crew for volunteering so much of your time over the years! It was awesome!!)
Cara Schulz is doing Philly Pagan Pride, Philly Antifa, and this entire topic a huge disservice.
For one she did not accurately present the findings of the Philly Antifa investigation. Their claims are not, as she says, based on only two gigs. As is posted in a link in the Philly Antifa piece in a link here with more info which they freely provided and was clearly not cited:
http://antifa-joe.tumblr.com/post/96074016471/norsewind
It wasn’t just two gigs. It was a string of gigs, appearances, and regular attendance of KSS events going back to 2009. That’s hardly the same thing as two gigs done for money.
For two the Keystone State Skinheads aka Keystone United are a group One People’s Project AND the Southern Poverty Law Center, the leading voice and experts on hate groups in America, have been tracking for years. For Danjul to claim he saw NO white supremacist statements, hate, or politics at ANY of their very explicitly white supremacist events, like the Lief Erikson protest from last year, over the course of the past five years stretches credulity to the breaking point. They include several photos, posted to Facebook, of Danjul at these events showing there is a very strong, consistent pattern.
For three she gives NO mention of the huge controversies surrounding Folkish practice, the proven racist ties betweem prominent Folkish groups like the AFA and Stephen McNallen with racist groups and bands, or the growing number of Heathens who are tired of dealing with those people and are calling them out on what they really are.
For four she also gives no mention of the concept of metaculture or metapolitics, an approach that is increasingly among neo-Nazi groups and promoters as a means of flying under the radar and seducing people to their ideology by unconventional means. Everything from Counter Currents Publishing to Troy Southgate advocates for this very openly.
For five, given how the article is written, I have to question if she even bothered to contact Philly Antifa for comment. For her to seek out Norsewind but not to seek comment from the Antifa reeks of bias and shoddy reporting.
In my opinion this piece deserves a total rewrite and I have to question whether Cara Schulz really did her homework or is looking to generate a false controversy.
It would be interesting to see who and what sort of people members of the Antifa Philly are friends and/or associated with as well. Unfortunately, they like to cover their faces and not use names.
Thankfully I’m not hanging with the “pagan” scene anymore… people like you and your politically correct nonsense have all but ruined what was once a decent scene. Why don’t you take your hippie BS and go hang out with some Buddhists or Hare Krishnas or something?
So why are you here? Go rage-wank in the corner.
If you read Antifa’s mission statement, wouldn’t they be against pagan pride day? So why would they involve themselves in this as well. And I am appalled that the PPPD gave in to there threats. To me antifa themselves are fascist. Read there website and mission and articles. Hopefully the band sues them for defamation of character.
What would have had the organizers of PPPD do? Risk a riot at an event designed to promote spirituality and fellowship? Perhaps, they actually agree that Antifa’s tactics are horrible. By virtue of their previous actions and website content, it’s obvious that they thrive on disruption, chaos, and violence. Perhaps, PPPD also vetted the claims and found there to be enough merit behind them to warrant removal of the band. If you read their statement, it’s very obvious that their ONLY concern is ensuring the EVENT is SAFE and meaningful for the participants. Hardly something that could have occurred in the midst of a riot or protest.
Just chiming in that folks can see Mr. Devito defend himself on the FB thread of WH.
But my true purpose for posting is that if folks have info about racist activity at FSH, I would like to know. I’m a big time proponent and organizer of the East Coast Thing, which holds it’s annual event at the same location as FSH. I am no friend to racists and if this crap washes up to cause problems with events I’m affiliated with, then we have a Problem.
David,
I attended both FSH and ECT. The organizers of both were aware and okay with this. There was no racist activity at either event.
Great! So your going on record that you are looking into these allegations of FSH? You are going to insure no racist activities?
BTW; you have no authority to speak for the East Coast Thing.
Kayla runs the campground, not the event, as you know.
Exactly what are these ‘allegations’? Your an attornery, so level specific charges. Or are you just fishing?
I did not speak for East Coast Thing. But Joe Marek and I discussed my attendance and it was not a problem. I’d have talked to you too, but you did not attend.
Kayla, as the campground operator, is a neutral observer.
I was at FSH from start to finish. I organized the childrens activities. I had the pleasure of chatting with Norsewind after they performed. Never once was anything about race brought up. It was a wonderful event all around! In fact, the KITCHEN STAFF at the event loved us so much that they participated in sumbel with us.
But im confused why you assume that YOU have any “affiliation” with FSH. You dont. You happen to rent from the same camp ground a week later. So not quite sure how FSH is YOUR concern.
Btw I know Kayla really well too. Shes a sweetheart!
And Cliff is a standup, well respected guy as well!
Racist bands can appeal to non-racists by obscuring their politics, thus increasing their audience. And bands that appeal to racists who don’t call out their racist audience (or play at racist festivals!) are doing the same thing. Either way, it’s willful obscurantism.
Antifa forces such bands to be clear about their political leanings.
I guess by playing neofolk/dark folk, my band is “appealing to racists” or something like that. I don’t feel that we should have to preach or have announcements before we play.
Anyway, Antifa has already falsely determined that musicians I play with are racists, or nazis, or something.
Most of the music I listen to and the music my band played neofolk/folkmetal. I’m also an active antifascist, and it’s actually quite easy to embody both worlds. One solution to that problem is to make an official statement that you’re anti-racist (that is, not just “non-racist”). There are several manifestos that bands can sign on to (one of the largest was started by Das Ich and a few other bands who were sick of seeing racists co-opt their music).
The problem here is that it puts a band in an apologetic stance. “guilty until proven otherwise” or such. I think antifascists have no say in telling a band if they are legit or not because it’s generally them that make life impossible for musicians in the first place. “Tell everyone you agree with our views or face persecution” That’s basically whats antifa is all about.
How is saying “racism is bad” an apology? It is actually REALLY easy to release a statement telling racists to fuck off, and the exact reason many bands don’t do it is because it would alienate a large portion of their fan base.
It might indeed, but if someone accused me of something I was innocent of, the last thing I would want would be to issue a statement saying I was siding with them. And it’s not only not bein racist, it’s being anti-fascist those pressure groups want to spread, basically, join the witch-hunt or burn.
Whether fair or not, neofolk has garnered a reputation of of containing many bands with far-right leanings and fascist, often racist sympathies. Enough of a reputation that you five minutes on Google with bring you over 65,000 results. To the extent that this subgenre is known outside of its fandom, one might suggest this is the reputation that precedes it. Generally, if you live in a dirty house, you are the one tasked with cleaning it. If neofolk bands took more clear and substantive public stances against racism, not claiming to be “non-political” or swearing that they “don’t hate anybody”, but making unambiguous antiracist statements, it might go a long way towards changing the perception of the scene itself. Its not critics making bands feel persecuted by the “fascist scene” label. A large number of the often incestuously formed and collaborative bands who formed the foundation of neofolk as a genre took care of that for you.
Shades of Joe McCarthy! I should now sign an oath signifying that I’m not a racist? A “Manifesto” written by someone who I have no knowledge of?
The way I’ve led my life should be enough “proof”, I’m not going to make statements or sign documents. That’s absurd.
Zom, you’re probably the one who understand this whole issue best. High five to you and please, gimme a link to your band, I wanna check it out.
And who made Antifa the supreme decider in these manners? Why wouldn’t Philly PPD do their own research before kicking the band off? Massive fail all the way around on this one.
It’s not as simple as that. As I imagine the editors of this blog site have found out, having now severely edited and re posted the article.
And yet, I’m sure you would have no problem with bands who associate with communists, marxists, or other left-leaning groups. I’m sure you would have absolutely no problem with them!
No problem at all!
And none of ’em would even for a second hide their affiliations…
So you sympathize with communists, marxists and the like?
Sympathize? Have you read my stuff, mate? I’m an anti-fascist skinhead anarcho-marxist worshiper of the old gods.
My guess is that you would not be that leftist if you had ever lived in a country with a strong Marxist past like lots do in Europe. That said, you’re free to believe in whatever you want, as long as you don’t end up engaging in those Fascist actions many antifa support.
What does one have to do with the other? This is about racism, not left vs right.
Personally, I greatly enjoy Marxists who know how to rock…
I think it is because people conflate racism with fascist/extreme right ideology.
Ironically, fascism, itself, is not inherently right wing.
If it is about anti-racism, then why is it an anti-fascism group, not an anti-racist group that are kicking off?
I will happily call out racism when I see it (don’t care who you are, Lucy is an ancestor), but when there is a group telling other people what beliefs are valid/allowed, that because sinister.
Its about both racism and fascism. And in the case of these groups, racism is mixed right in with fascist and extreme right ideologies. These groups use right-wing values to lure people, not overt racism. Where I live is a hotbed for such activity and I’ve seen it first-hand many times.
I think it’s mostly about a band playing music and intolerant blokes judging them for crime of thought.
I think that the evidence here suggests otherwise, sorry. This isn’t about “crime of thought”, its about racism. This band played at Keystone Skinhead shows for YEARS. I don’t believe their leader for a moment if he’s saying he never saw any Nazi imagery, etc. That’s a load of crap.
Yay, fucktardery! -_-
You know, it is really hard for Heathens to do anything without someone looking for a Nazi connection.
Of course, this is likely because the Nazis screwed with Heathen iconography so much.
This one is a no-win situation.
oooooo, a black sun symbol on the album cover! That MUST equate to Nazi sympathy… Oh, wait that symbol was associated with norse heathenry for centuries before the Nazis. Lets see oh yes, they played for a skinhead BBQ… Huh? how does that even compute. PPPD as a former PPD organizer, you need to get your collective heads out of the buttholes that you have them jammed into and realize that you can make ANY SYMBOL associate with any group that has even one member displaying the symbol. Do you ban Satanists for wearing an inverted cross, how about wiccans who wear an inverted pentacle? Do you ban merchants who sell these items of jewelry? I have been to several Norsewind gigs and I have never seen any indication of racism in any of their music. Wake up and get with the program people!
Lol. Erased all the non biased stuff about Folkish heathens that are not racists. Where the hell is Jack Nicholson when you need him to scream ” you can’t handle the truth!” Lololol.
One can not know what is in a musicians heart by who is on their facebook friends list. To be the devils advocate, The Doobie Brothers were basically the house band for the Hells Angels back in the 70’s, and to the best of my knowledge none of the Doobie Brothers were involved in any of negative things the Angels did. We don’t always get to pick the morality of who is paying us, for an artist this is especially true.
Everyone should know that the level of fairness in this artile has diminished since its edit. Why is ‘Balder Rising’ tagged but not mentioned in the article? Because an interview with someone who saw the band perform was removed.
Antifa are revealed as facists simply by the fact that they think ‘thought crime’ exists.
I think I’m going to listen to some Wagner, just for the fun of it.
I am so sick of the broad smearing of mythological symbols due to some who have misused them.The black sun can be found in the iconography of many cultures, is an alchemical symbol of the nigredo process, and has a literary heritage in surrealist writings (like Harry Crosby). For some it relates to Sirius or its dark dwarf star companion. And Coil and Dead Can Dance were hardly fascist-sympathizing bands!
If the band in question here has racist or fascist tendencies they should be condemned on that not count, not because of displaying a widespread and polyvalent ancient symbol.
My opinions are my own and in no way reflect those of Philadelphia Pagan Pride Day organizers, participants or volunteers.
If you or your group’s actions violate the First Amendment, they your actions are also a violation of honor. That is my answer to Antifa, and my warning that should I be present at an event where they decide to show up and disrupt it, I’ll be as unrestrained as they are, point for point.
My personal witness of the organizers of PPPD for the last two events, this being their second after reviving it from its hiatus, is of a mixed group of Heathens and Pagans from a variety of paths doing everything right. Anyone wishing to second guess their decisions is invited to put their heads back into their asses.
Signed,
Franklin Evans
co-founder of Delaware Valley Pagan Network, past co-organizer of PPPD
The First Amendment only guarantees that the government won’t interfere with free speech, not that individual citizens can’t response to speech they find abhorrent.
Wow. This looks like classic guilt-by-association. There are plenty of out racist Asatruar, but the whole religion needn’t be tainted by them. It may be that they are racist, but the “evidence” submitted does not bring me to that conclusion.
The people who should be banned are the antifa thugs. They are the ones spreading a message of hate.
You do realize that they were targeted by Philly Antifa for playing a skinhead gathering several years in a row, right? And you do realize that the PPPD willingly dropped them from its lineup after finding this out, too, right? So are the PPPD organizers complicit in this campaign of hate, as spread by antifa?
The organizers may find antifa’s position persuasive, or they may just be scared shitless about the liability and damage to their event by the prospect of skinhead/antifascist violence and controversy.
The official press release of PPPD (go to their website http://www.philadelphiapaganpride.org) specifically states that their sole commitment is to uphold the mission of the Pagan Pride Project and Philadelphia Pagan Pride Day and the SAFETY of its participants. As someone close to one of the organizers (but not speaking for the group), I can assure you that the decision was not made without vetting the claims and a lot of discussions and sleepless nights on their part. They do not agree with Antifa’s tactics (Antifa didn’t even have the courtesy to contact them direct) but they certainly do not condone hate groups of any form. Ultimately, they decided that their responsibility lay with the event and ensuring its participants had a meaningful, safe, experience at it. Period.
I’m all for calling out the “soft’ racist groups for what they are, and I get the “metaculture” tactics and the strategy of putting a veneer of respectability on hate. That said, this is a pretty weak and circumstantial case, at best. At most, the evidence here suggests the band is a bit mercenary and insensitive, maybe third or fourth tier associates of the movement. There is nothing conclusive at all which demonstrates they personally hold racist/racialist sympathies, and pretty categorical denials from them on that point. Now, we don’t know for sure what’s in their heads and hearts, but real racists don’t typically give an unreserved refutation like that. They almost always nuance and spin it. “We’re not racist, we just love “our people” blah blah blah…” If we’re going to confront the real racists within our communities with any credibility, we’ve got to learn to hold our fire until we have a real case and evidence to prove it.
Here’s the deal, even if some people are racist, who cares? Who cares what they think? What matters is what do they do. Are they doing anything that is violating others? Nope. Thinking a thought that someone else finds offensive, last I checked, wasn’t wrong. Actions matter. Not thoughts. As it is, nothing in this article (more may come out later) suggests anything about them being racist or doing anything to violate another person based on race.
Yes, actions matter. You can think whatever thoughts you want, and put out whatever you want in terms of music, messaging, etc. Freedom of speech does not free you from the consequences of that speech.
The very basis of racism is in the dehumanization of other people. Racism is not just thought; the hate of racism is an act. Racism leads to the oppression of other people, whether by overt action or enabling overt things such as outright hate speech and direct, public acts of discrimination and violence, or the quieter but no less powerful forms, such as institutional racism.
As I am not a racist and do not believe in supporting racists of any sort,as racism denies the humanity and equal rights of people, I will seek to deny funding to any person or event that caters to them.
So I guess you fancy yourself Asatru with your avatar being what it is. Please tell me how Asatru and the northern religions have fuck-all to do with humanistic thoughts like “equality” and “anti-racism”? I think you are very confused and perhaps should pursue counseling.
Mr. Dispossessed Majority…I don’t think you quite understand how racism is Heathenism is actually a very tiny minority. Most of the people doing significant work with the northern gods are fiercely anti-racist specifically -because- of their work for the gods. What benefit is it to the old gods that they be worshiped only by a small handful of isolationist whites?
Equality is actually pretty important, in Heathenry. If you look back to when it was originally practised, the Germanic societies had a far greater level of equality than pretty much any other culture at the time or for centuries afterwards.
As to racism, the Germanic tribes were well known for trading with pretty much every culture they came in contact with, and we can show (through genetic studies) that they were not adverse to breeding with them. (There was a study a few years back showing the presence of “Native American” DNA in the Icelandic population.)
Further, we can look to the mythological lore – showing a diverse collection of beings that intermarried and bred.
Racism is harmful to the community and the community is the main focus of Heathenry.
So basically you say that a band that has never released any racist statement, may it be through music, interview or other should still be shunned because bad people like their art? Or is it because they are just so incredibly “evil” inside? Should they be shunned? Should they be stopped from playing music ? Should one break their bones and tear their tongue out to be sure they won’t ever say anything that you deem horrible?
Talk about dehumanizing people…
Again, you need to refrain from trying to put words in peoples’ mouths.
If I find that a band has been to a concert for several years in a row that supports out-and-out racist, fascist skinheads, it is well within my right to deny that band any of my money. Racism is evil, period. It is dehumanizing, vile, and directly affects me and mine, and I will have no part in it, nor will I accept any who truck with racists or fascists.
Should they be shunned? Absolutely, if they truck with racists, fascists, and white nationalists. Who chooses to shun them is a person’s choice.
Should they be stopped from playing music? Only by dint of whether the potential event holder wishes to pay for hosting them. I have no interest in denying others’ ability to play, but I will not support venues or bands that support racism, fascism, or white nationalism, and I will encourage friends, loved ones, and community members to deny anyone who does their money or support.
If other people know your thoughts, they’re no longer just thoughts, they’re actions. The actions might just be speaking words, but that’s still action. And it still harms people, if those words are racist or bigoted.
Playing at gatherings of racists is also an action, that people can make of it what they will.
Hum…it seems that the whole discussion is getting a bit heated… Let’s listen to some relaxing music before continuing our argument:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaFS0ZMHeco