PALO ALTO, Calif. — A six-month jail sentence for a former Stanford University swimmer convicted of sexually assaulting an unconscious woman has sparked widespread outrage. Critics are saying his sentence, which deviated from sentencing guidelines of two to fourteen years, is far too lenient. While that sentence has generated protests, recall efforts, and conversations about bias in the legal system, it has generated something else within the Pagan community – a call to hex the perpetrator, his father, and the judge who granted the sentence.
Brock Allen Turner, 20, was convicted of three counts of felony sexual assault including sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object. Turner was arrested on the Palo Alto campus in January 2015 after two graduate students found him thrusting against an unconscious, partially clothed woman behind a dumpster outside of a fraternity party.
The lighter than normal sentence will be served in a county jail rather than the state prison, which is also a deviation from standard sentencing. Judge Aaron Persky said the defendant had “less moral culpability” because he was drunk, and that a light sentence was appropriate since Turner had already suffered from “anxiety” from the intense media attention on the case. There have also been allegations that the judge gave a lighter sentence than the minimum because Persky, like the defendant, is a Stanford alumnus and student athlete.
Adding to the controversy, Dan Turner, father of the Brock Turner, said in a letter to the court that his son is paying a “steep price” for “20 minutes of action.”
The judge, who gave Turner the light sentence, is now facing a recall campaign by a fellow Stanford law professor and a petition supporting a recall has gathered close to 350,000 signatures as of press time.
At the same time, some in the Pagan community have chosen to take a different approach to action.
Melanie Hexen is inviting others to join her June 7 at 10 pm CT to place a hex on Brock Turner, Dan Turner, Judge Persky, while sending love and support to the victim of the attack. The Facebook event says participants can perform the hex in their own home and need only a black candle, a black string, and photos of those to be hexed.
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[Courtesy Photo]
Hexen said, “I think it will raise awareness of not only this particular case but of this rape culture we live in.”
She said that the her action is akin to Christians taking action through prayer, and it is a way to bring women together by doing something powerful. “And witches will stand together against injustice.”
The group hopes the hex results in Brock Turner becoming impotent, his father suffering from nightmares, and for the judge to lose his job.
The event, which was created less than 24 hours ago, is now gaining momentum. Over 100 people have said they will participate with many more interested.
Lasara Firefox Allen, author of Jailbreaking the Goddess, said that she’s participating because justice for women is rarely served from within the patriarchy. Allen said, “This gut-wrenching violation that keeps being compounded is an injustice to one woman, and at the same time an injustice to all women. We need to fight for justice with all we have. Magick is a tool we can, and must, wield to bring down the patriarchy. Brick by brick.”
J Setkheni-itw says the action is important even if a person doesn’t believe in magick or prayer:
I see Witches and Pagans whenever this subject comes up talk about how we need to just be patient and let the threefold law or karma take over, that eventually the perpetrator will somehow see the results of their actions and all will be right in the universe. I really don’t want to be judgmental of other peoples’ beliefs, but I feel like anybody with even a minute grasp of history can see that this is not true, that people in power who harm and oppress people are more often than not validated in that behavior and allowed to continue harming and oppressing people.Thousands of rapists have gone on to live lives where they received more sympathy than retribution, including high-profile repeat offenders who live and die rich and famous; am I to believe that all of these people are experiencing some deep internal turmoil that constitutes a watered down karmic response? I absolutely do not.
Pamela Jones says she’s participating because she’s part of the Social Justice Warrior Witchcraft collective of witches, who do periodic workings for social justice. Others, like Nevada Hardy, are joining because they were themselves the victim of a sexual assault and “…know what it feels like to be a victim without a voice.”
There are Pagans critical of hexing or who feel caution is the better course. Jeanine Hazelwood posted on the event. Hazelwood said, “Politely declining, and respectfully pointing out a differing view on the issue. If I am going to put precious energy into a working, it’s going to be to help change the culture that creates asses like these men and helps empower the women they damage. Hexing these idiots may ‘feel good’ but in the end it doesn’t help the victims or prevent this from happening again to someone else.”
While Meagan Angus, who says she’s a Hedge Witch and Urban Shaman, was more ambivalent, “Not sure if I will hex or send white light. Ultimately, even he has to reach enlightenment at some point. But he also needs to be stopped. Same goes for the dad and the defense lawyer.”
Hexen says she isn’t worried about a negative consequence rebounding on her for this working and feels confident of the morality of her actions, “I’m an experienced witch. I fear no rebound in this working. And if I’m to receive some sort of new age karma, I’ll take it for the greater good. I have strong shoulders. And stronger magick.”
When asked why she’s leading this action, Hexen simply said, “Witches do the work that needs to be done.”
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BEWARE!!!! Whatever you send out comes back to you times three!
Not all of us believe that. I’m Heathen, and my other two schools are hoodoo and Thelema.
I don’t believe it either. It has never been my experience anyway.
Nor mine. There are some situations where you ARE someone’s consequences.
Yes. As a very Wise Woman once said, “If you step on my toe, I’ll break yours–not because I’m mad, but because I must prevent myself from allowing you to do this to someone else.” (She was Lady Circe.)
with that line of thinking i can stabe you bc you poked me with a pin ……. yep real justice
or i gues i beter point wuld be i culd break your finger bc you poked me with it …… and how did that help at all?
No, not all of us follow the rule of three. I dont need a set of dogmas to tell me that attacking someone with curses is inappropriate. Just like I don’t need a set of dogmas to keep me from raping, I don’t need to be told not to hurt other people just because I have the ability to.. That makes you a villain. EVERYbody who takes vengeance out on others thinks they are hurting people for the greater good. The Hitlers and Attilas and Vlads thought they were working for the good of the world. History found them to be incorrect.
While I agree, it would be hard to tell the father of a rape victim he’s being a villain for tearing her rapist to pieces, literally. It’s all good in theory.
you dont have to thats the thing ppl miss keep yourself out of it then you are not the “villain” or “hero” you are just you living your life. we all have a set of laws we follow not bc we are told to but bc it just feals bad to go agenst them …. if the dads tels him to go kik ass then let them its not for us to stop him hes no hero but hes not a villain ether … he is himself doing whut he feals is right. we can justify anything with words its a nasty trick humans have … but to maki it right is a dif thing all together
I hear what you are saying. I’m not for or against this hexing business, though I totally get why. I gravitate more towards binding to prevent future harm and justice in that he comes to realise what he did and truly make amends. I respect other peoples right to direct their own intent and energy in whatever way they decide though, even if I don’t approve or agree with it. They aren’t looking for approval, clearly.
Considering all the assholes out there who never once see any karmic or three-fold retribution for the things they’ve done to others–including the rapist this is all about–I’m going to go with nope.
So if you send out a call for justice, justice will come back to you threefold? Hey, that’s cool, I think we can all live with that.
Because if you think you’re gonna get good karma for sitting on your ass and letting injustice prevail, guess what. LOTS of people thought they could do that, which is why our country is currently in the toilet.
Thanks an’ all.
Because hexes and curses are dark energy and comes back to you that way, despite your ‘good intentions’.
LOL, some gods are dark. They don’t hold that stuff against you.
your point? dark light good bad there all labels we put on stuff …. i think cars are the worst ting ever made … some ppl agree some disagree (light … dark) for every action there is an equal and opasit reaction, there will always be someone somewhere to fight you on how you look at something unless you stop fighting.
LOL, ok.
good or bad … law of three or not … regardles of reson or anyof that … if you harm another you are no beter than them for harming someone ….. if i punch you will that make it ok to punch you dad? whut if i had a realy good reson to punch you? or if you had a reson to punch him? i culd hit you bc i wanted to (bad/dark) or i culd do it to protect another (light/good) dusnt change that i hit you…
I do not belive that I do not need some spiritual boogyman, that be Satan or the three fold law to make sure I am moral.
Not that I subscribe to the Threefold Law very strictly but: What if we’re part of the three fold law coming back to haunt the rapist for his actions?
then that is how it is …. but will that justify whut happens next? leting the end gole justify your actions is never a good plan
good for them!
Yeah you will be saying “good for them” when Karma comes and bites them in the ass.
Karma is a Buddhist belief. And a lot of us don’t believe that.
A) I don’t believe in Karma
B) perhaps this hex is “Karmic” punishment for the rapist
C) how is the rape Karma for the victim in the first place? (please don’t actually answer this, this is a rhetorical question)
Some people are willing to take that on, as long as these douches get what is coming to them and I say more power to them. Magic can be used with either ‘good’ or ‘bad’ intent. A Witch will explore each side if she wants a more rounded experience and take whatever consequences may come, but honestly, in this case and all rape cases, how can anyone say it is unjustified. These shits get away with seriously damaging women with nothing but a slap on the wrist and you’re worried about any repercussions?
Karma is about balance, and I do not believe there will be any karmic retribution for what these pagans and/or witches do. IF there is any karma involved, everyone participating is willing to take responsibility for their part in it.
And I say Good for them!
Interesting thing about Karma… it only exists if one believe it exists. Not just on the surface, but deep down in the soul. Karma is not a God. It’s an effect of energy.
Actually, cause and effect…aka karma…it’s a scientific fact of reality. You cannot act on something without there being consequences or an equal reaction. It has nothing to do with religion…it’s science.
I do find it interesting that so many here have said nothing happened to them after they cursed someone though, and my intellect suspects it’s true, however, I have had many things that have come back to me that were really like instant karma, so I have to wonder why that is?
I don’t follow Buddhist dogma either, I’m eclectic and take what resonates with me from every religion or philosophy…mostly I am aligned with the Tao and nature.
To me, I understand how justified it can feel to want to exert revenge on someone, but deep down I FEEL that it would leave me empty and only hurt myself in some way if I did, because everyone and everything is a reflection of me.
I hate to break it to you, but karma is a Hindu teaching. You’re being appropriative. And you don’t even understand how karma works, because that’s not it.
I feel the same way about “karma” that I feel about “left hand/right hand path”– I don’t think a culturally appropriated, misunderstood notion from a religion to which I do not even belong has any relevance to what I do.
The problem with hexing for impotence is that impotence doesn’t prevent sexual assault.
Also, Turner will be released 9/2/16, as he is serving six months.
Somehow I think he’ll be finding out what rape is all about where he is going anyway. A lot can happen in 6 months and they’d just love a clean cut white boy athlete with daddy paying his way out of a longer sentence in there. No wonder he is anxious.
Rapists are awful and deserve a jail sentence but a jail sentence isn’t and shouldn’t be a getting raped in prison sentence.
I never said it should be. That is a reality of prison though.
It’s a belief about prison, but it isn’t a reality. Some rapes happen in prison, most do not. More women are raped outside of prison than men in prison are, whether you use the underreported stats of the DOJ, or higher self-reported stats from studies.
You just said ‘some rapes happen’, after stating that it isn’t a reality? Which is it?
If it were just a belief no one would get raped in jail, but they do. Even if they don’t all get raped, some do. I never said ALL males get raped there, but the threat of it is real for every man that goes there, whether it actuates or not. Why? Because rapists make up a percentage of the population in prison, and they don’t just stop raping because they aren’t exposed to women any more.
I don’t really get why you felt the need to add that more women get raped outside of prison? It’s not a competition and the point is some males do get raped there. Therefore Brock IS a target, whether it unfolds that way or not.
My point was about the belief that since he was going to prison it was likely “he’ll be finding out what rape is all about where he is going anyway”. That is why I “felt the need” to respond, to debunk the myth that rapes are so frequent in prison. Beliefs like that help to keep the sentencing structure in this country unjust. Folks figure any prison time is good because he’ll be raped anyway. It’s not true.
Ok, I didn’t realise that was the way people think in regards to prison time in America.
I honestly don’t know how frequent they happen or don’t happen, just that they do happen, and I would think that someone with a high profile case like this, where he has more privilege than many others in prison do, might draw negative attention to him, making him a target, while he is in there…but I don’t know that it will.
I wasn’t meaning that any prison time is good either, just that in the time he is in there a lot can happen, so it’s not like he’s going to come out unscathed. Obviously a longer sentence is what is called for here.
I understand. I really was only attempting to help debunk a myth around prison in this country. Peace. 🙂
Ok, thankyou. I did just have a conversation with one person who has friends and family who work for the justice system and he contradicted what you said. I edited my last post above if you want to read it?
Again, I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that the frequency is a lot less than one is led to believe. Rapists may or may not be raped, depending on who their fellow inmates are. We still live in a country where rape culture and male privilege are thriving and embraced and that filters into the prison mindset, too.
All that said, I deplore the idea that a rapist would or should be raped in return. I believe rape is wrong in all circumstances. It is a violent act of power. I’m not saying you are condoning prison rape, but I wanted to clearly state my stance on it.
I hear you. I don’t wish it upon him or anyone either. Rape is a terrible thing and no one deserves it..including people in prison. I was just speaking from the reality that it could happen that the predator becomes the prey, that’s all.
No surprise more women are raped outside of prison than men in prison, because only a small fraction of the total population is in prison. Rapes per capita are more indicative.
I was speaking in percentages of total populations, women and prisoners.
Thank you, I wasn’t clear about that.
But he isn’t going to prison, he will be in County jail. It’s rather different.
Yes, I heard. I’m from Australia so I wasn’t aware of the differences. Still, I spoke to a man who has friends and family in the justice system and they said that as much as the guards try to prevent this from happening it still does,,,especially to rapists among inmates…even in county.
Apologies if I was overly pedantic.
No that’s ok. I like to learn new things about other ways in different countries.
He’s currently serving 90 days. That’s it.
A lot can happen in 90 days. The first week is meant to be the worst for newbies. Look, I don’t wish rape on him, or anyone, but if it comes to him then it might give him a different perspective.
He’s going to county jail. He might be safer there than on the outside, now that the world knows his face, his name, and what he did.
I’m not from America so I don’t know what county jail is as opposed to maximum security? I’m guessing it’s a much nicer place though.
Prisons are run by the state or the Federal government. They’re generally for those sentenced for over a year.
Local or county jails are generally for those who are being held after being arrested, awaiting trial or sentencing. Also for those serving sentences of less than a year for minor crimes, like misdemeanors instead of felonies.
Or, increasingly, private corporations. County jail, at least, is run by gov’t. Not that this necessarily helps, depending on the jail.
Some people call county jail “day camp” (where kids go to do crafts, sports, etc during summer). It’s not for hardened criminals, just people with minor offenses like small amounts of drugs.
I thought that might be the case which is even more insulting to the victim. Oh nothing major…just raping a girl unconscious behind a dumpster. Nothing too bad about that?
You are mistaken he will be doing his 3 months in county jail not the prison system.
I hope this hex gives him more than impotence. Lots of guys live fulfilling lives without boners. This rapist deserves to live every day of his life in debilitating fear and terror.
I agree. More than impotence is needed. But here’s a tidbit: when the police arrived, they noticed he had an erection.
If he gets turned on by raping unconscious girls then that is very telling.
His defense attorney said it was cold, that’s why he had one…
That’s ridiculous though. Most guys shrink if it’s cold. Plus he was drunk, which can make it go limp as a noodle. I guess not every guy is the same, but I wouldn’t take his attorneys word for it.
Yeah they said it was “because it was cold.” Uhhhh….I don’t have a penis myself but isn’t that supposed to shrink your genitals, not inflate them?
I’m pretty sure that’s why he was digitally raping her and not raping her with his shrunken tiny little wee wee.
You mean that was the explanation given in the trial??
I take it as a society we have lost faith in our legal system?
We as the public are gleaming a cursory understanding of this situation and have determined that the person in question is indeed guilty and is not punished severely enough?
Rather we believe he should have suffered more? Sadly even 100 years in jail will not change what happened, it will not turn back time.
Everyone who is a victim of sexual assault, violence, rape and assault needs to have justice and we believe our justice system will weigh all he evidence and make the right punishment for each crime.
Are we to become vigilantes for all, or only a few?
Some actions make the perpetrator deodand, and this is one of them. The legal system dropped the ball. Let the Gods and the hands of witches, wizards, Völva and oracles work to bring these people down.
So we change the legal system by punishing the judged? Sorry, I am a little confused as to the exact goal we might be trying to accomplish, or am I wrong in reading the intent behind this hex?
This involves two assumptions.
1.) That the perpetrator was not punished severely enough, giving all factors, evidence and testimony given and,
2.) That our legal system fails to punish enough and we fel that we are justified in becoming vigilantes for certain cases, but not all.
1. He wasn’t. If you look at similar cases that involved the disenfranchised or someone of color, the sentences are much more stringent. The judge went outside the mandatory sentences to slap this kid on the wrist, just because he’s an athlete from an affluent background.
2. In this instance, the legal system fell prey to the selfish interests of a biased judge. It happens more often than you know. The legal system needs an overhaul, and judges need to be made accountable when they give out sentences like this for crimes of this seriousness.
What are we trying to accomplish? Ask the Erinyes, Am-Mit, Garm, Kali Durga, Black Tara, Ezíli, Coatlicue…. Whoever it pleases you to ask. Let Them take him and do as they choose.
I called on the Erinyes to deal with the shithead who raped me. Very powerful,and it helped me heal in many ways to picture them coming down from above, and picking him up with their talons to carry him away to be dealt with and watching the look on his face of pure terror. I still have the painting of it somewhere. Even sending them to these people in their dreams would make them lose sleep at the very least.
You haven’t read the details of the case, have you? If you had, you would agree that there has been a clear miscarriage of justice.
He got convicted, the jury found him guilty. Just some bizarre judge decided to all but let him off. I have no faith in that judge, he should be sacked. The legal system is something we as a society tune as we go along, and sometimes it doesn’t do its job.
Sometimes? It doesn’t do it’s job a lot more than it does.
The judge also was an Alumni at the same college…no coincidence. I think his father paid the guy off to give him a lesser sentence. Frat boys take care of each other…even when they’re no longer frat boys.
I take it as a society we have lost faith in our legal system?
Uh, yeah.
Everyone who is a victim of sexual assault, violence, rape and assault
needs to have justice and we believe our justice system will weigh all
he evidence and make the right punishment for each crime.
Well, let’s see. A rapist convicted of three felonies gets six months because the judge felt sorry for him and his “ruined” life regardless of the pain of his victim. Other rapists never see a day in jail at all because the justice system for rape consists mostly of consulting whichever rape myth of the rape culture will best serve. People of color are murdered by the authorities who are supposed to protect us all, but don’t. Depending on where you live, women can be incarcerated for having miscarriages. Trayvon Martin’s murderer recently sold the weapon that murdered the boy for a small fortune.
Are you serious right now?
“I take it as a society we have lost faith in our legal system?”
Ya think?!?!
I read your first sentence, and that’s it. You honestly have to ask that after the sentencing the little douche bag was given? Really?
In answer to your question; you damn right I’ve lost faith in our legal system.
Hexen says she isn’t worried about negative consequences, well she should be.
Hexing anyone for any reason will hurl Karma on your ass so fast you wont even know what happened.
Even good spells like healing can bring Karma if you did not divine to see if it was meant to be. Also you must ALWAYS ask permission from the one you want to do good or healing spells for.
These are the laws and ways of the Universe and they spare no one.
Who ARE these ignorant and poorly trained Pagans?
Not all of us believe that. I am very solidly Left-Hand Path. I don’t launch spiritual mortar rounds for just no damn reason. It takes this, or things like it, before the Gods fill me with the calling to be part of the consequences for actions beyond the pale.
Oh not this again. Not everyone that’s going to do this curse is a Wiccan. Witches are not bound to the three fold law. I say do it. Nothing is going to happen if you don’t believe in the three fold stuff.
Probably knows more than you do.
Well not everyone believes in the Hindu concept Karma, and most witches don’t believe the three fold law, a newer concept in general versus the old traditional beliefs. Us witches will do as we see fit. Trust me.
Karma is an eastern concept, not a western one. How do you know for sure karma will affect her?
Probably Pagans who have different beliefs and practices and experiences than yours. Not everyone is Wiccan. Not everyone believes in karma or the law of three. Get off your magical high horse.
You are very arrogant and dogmatic, for someone who is scared to use their power. Who trained you in these ridiculously limiting ideas?
not all pagans or witches (as not all witches are pagans) believe in three fold law. Karma is a Buddhist concept
Who are you to make assumptions about anyone’s training or knowledge? It’s already been stated that Karma is Buddhist, not Pagan and you’re statement betrays your own ignorance about the wide range of practices in the witchcraft community. Not all of us believe in the three fold law or karma and perhaps some that do can still see the reasons behind laying a well deserved curse on this scumbag and his protectors. I have hexed, banished and bound abusers in my own life before. I have watched these workings unfold, knowing my reasons for taking action and believing that the cause was just and I have never been harmed because of it. Taking action doesn’t just mean hurting the perpetrator, which he richly deserves, but also protecting anyone he might victimize in the future. I wish him torment and madness. Impotence isn’t enough in my opinion. He needs to lose everything and suffer for his callous, destructive, vile crimes against this young woman. This doesn’t make me an ignorant or poorly trained witch, just a pissed off one who knows that there are Gods and Goddesses of justice and vengeance for a reason.
I’m kind of in the boat for prioritizing my energy and work into the macro-level issue that caused this micro-level problem. Also, since everyone keeps talking about Karma- Karma, the three fold law, nor the rule of harm none are universal beliefs among witches. This isn’t the 60’s. Witchcraft evolved and is no longer exclusively bound to Wiccan beliefs.
True and I wish that people would stop thinking that all witches are Wiccan and thus bound to the three fold law. Nothing is going to come back to you three times. Gardner wrote that in that book before the Witchcraft Act was repealed. It was to make Wicca more accepted. If this coven wants to hex and curse these three men then they should be able to. Because I can assure you that he’ll do it again.
My previous posts keep being detected as spam so I’m altering my wording. Here are my thoughts:
This public display is harmful to the Pagan community. This only enforces the stigma we have to constantly overcome. This is a high profile case and now there is a chance that Pagans are going to end up in the news portrayed as the classic evil witch who goes around hexing people. If you need to bind or hex this man, do it in private and on your own terms. Don’t recruit the community as vigilantes.
I do not condone Mr. Turner’s behavior and I commend the survivor for speaking out with her powerful letter. I encourage Pagans to remember that we can take action by volunteering at assault hotlines, hosting prayer circles, peaceful protesting, writing articles speaking out against violence, and lighting candles to show support for survivors and victims. My heart goes out to all those impacted by violence.
Well not all witches are Wiccan and their not bound to the three fold law. Witches have cursed, hexed, and done many nasty things. Stop judging the actions of others and worry about yourself.
I didn’t mention Wicca or what magic witches do, don’t do, or shouldn’t do. I simply said that this might become negative press for those of us that have faced discrimination and that there are alternative ways to help. When the actions of others impact the greater community, I will speak up and share my opinion.
I don’t think that their too worried about that.
Clearly not.
I’ll take negative press. Women survivors are portrayed negatively in the press *all the time*. So have at it, this working is for Justice as the Universe sees fit.
I respect your opinion. Sexual assault is awful and prevalent and I understand it is frustrating to feel like progress isn’t happening.
Not all witches are Pagan, either,and are equally comfortable with various types of justice magic.
He was given preferential sentencing thats for sure. Not speaking for the victim but instead as a healed victim, I would be outraged, terrified and further demeaned. Thats me. We dont know if she wants this on her behalf. We dont know her path or her needs in healing. I think her feelings and her needs should be the focus of our good energies. I dont know if focusing on revenge and hurt is how I will be of best use to her & other victims as well as myself.
Then focus your energies on the victim and help her heal, and leave the hexing to the ones who think differently to you.
This is good; both sides are needed. Emily Doe needs healing, and justice needs to be served where it was not. Let those who are inclined to the first work there, and those inclined to the second work there.
We can coexist.
Hmmmm practicing Wicca and not worried about the three fold law of return, or saying “I have strong shoulders. And stronger magick” is a bit out there. You have stronger magick than that force of return that has been around for thousands and thousands of years. Big ego there! I also believe that harming someone for harming someone else is never the answer. The three fold law if return will happen or something to that effect anyway and these ppl will suffer……..
Point of clarification. Melanie Hexen is not a Wiccan.
All I am saying, is for you to serve justice, please be prepared for justice to be served upon you for your wrong doings, however minuscule they may be. While we as witches may not agree with that of the Justice System, it is not up to us to decide who is rightfully judged and who is not because I can tell you from experience that those who seek justice will take a bitter bite in the end.
Why isn’t it for us witches to decide? One of the benefits of being on the fringe is not having to fall in line all the time. If we were if a mind that whatever happens happens there wouldn’t be a need for spell casting.
And since those in power and the world at large don’t seem to be interested in serving justice, then who will, if not us?
This will cause more issues than anything for pagans in the country, it will give people another reason to hate us. People need to think this crap through, publicly hexing people is not the way to do it and she should know this.
Respectability politics at its finest.
Nobody who hates us at this point needs a reason, their own internal propaganda generator works just fine. How in the world is someone who goes by the name of Kali so utterly afraid?
As someone local to this victim, to the judge, to the location of the assault and a complainant in the same county who dealt with the very same prosector’s office, and a former Rape Crisis Center advocate in that county, I am cautiously happy that this action is being taken. I do have concerns and questions, but since I’m not participating in it, I’ll withhold them.
I don’t understand why the hexing on this 1 case.What about all the others who have been raped molested,ect.Why the special attention to this 1 man.
Because he is only serving a six month sentence.
And btw – in actuality – he gets out in Sept, so it’ll be 90 days served.
I had the same thought. What about that girl who was raped earlier in the month by 30 men in Brazil…and they posted it all over twitter laughing while she was in the background bleeding and screaming. There are too many cases like this that deserve attention of this kind.
Why do you think this is a singular working? There are collectives of witches doing SJ workings all the time. Not every one is highlighted in TWH, though I’m really happy this one is.
Because sometimes you just do what comes to your attention. You can’t do anything about what you don’t know about.
But don’t assume that people who perform this hex aren’t also doing other work.
Hexing publically will backfire on the community as a whole, not just the witches involved. The word hex is huge to our detractors. Maybe call for a binding of him since he isn’t going to be bound by the law?
That would probably be my focus as well personally. He is already going to face a pretty scary experience in prison and may even come to harm there without anyone interfering externally. Criminals don’t really like white boys with rich daddy’s who pay their way out of a longer sentence and it wouldn’t surprise me if he found himself learning what rape is during his stay. The first week is meant to be the worst for newbies in prison. I’d personally like to see the father and judge reprimanded in some way for minimising his actions.
My thoughts exactly. He has already cursed himself. The best plan is to protect his future victims with a combo protection / binding spell. He will do this again, and worse.
Yes, binding is a preferable focus, IMO.
Most reading this may be too young to remember the hex Z Budapest and friends performed on the “trailside killer” here in the SF Bay Area back in the ’80s. It evoked similar responses as are found on this site, except on a far smaller scale since we didn’t have instant digital communication. He was, in fact, caught and prosecuted and remains in prison today.
Want to mention a few facts, some concerning the position from which I speak:
1. Jail and prison are not the same. Prison is worse and for longer sentences. I volunteer in San Quentin State Prison. I also spent a working life in law offices.
2. I have been raped.
3. I have been working towards (a) creating Pagan culture, fostering Pagan solidarity (note: not uniformity of practice or belief), and (b) fostering understanding of Paganism in the interfaith community and the pubic at large (speaking to reporters, college and seminary classes, etc.) since the late 1970s.
I agree that the judge’s sentence is outrageous considering the magnitude of the harm done by the perp.
Soooo much respectability politics in this thread.
Given paganism’s own long-standing problems with sexual harassment, assault, and child abuse, I’m wondering if a little self-help might not be in order, before trying to take on *other* peoples’ issues, no matter how trendy they might be.
Rape is trendy. Nice.
Jumping on that particular one is, yes. I don’t see you or anyone else up in arms about the other 778 people who were raped or sexually assaulted that day, but whose fathers didn’t make a boneheaded statement about it.
Then you aren’t paying attention.
In fairness, only grandstanding like this commands attention. But nice deflection of the point of my comment, which was about Wicca and Paganism’s own sexual assault issues. kudos.
Nice switcheroo from your previous comment where your concern was about all the other people who were sexually assaulted, not only pagan ones. Now we’re back to only pagan victims matter. Oookkaaayyyy. Have a great day!
Exactly what level of outrage/progress do you propose we need to make with abuse issues in the Pagan community before we’re allowed to express outrage about this blatant miscarriage of justice? Do we have to eradicate abuse 100% within our own ranks before we have any license to speak on the issue within the wider world? 80%? What’s the cutoff?
If you aren’t seeing the Pagan community “up in arms” about the sexual abuse issue, you simply haven’t been following anything which has transpired on this blog or other venues over the past several years. Look up the controversy over two years with the Florida Pagan Gathering and Gavin and Yvonne Frost. There has been major pushback to festival leadership over including the Frosts on the bill of presentations. Other key presenters have very publicly walked away from the event over their inclusion.
And this was not even someone accused or convicted of an assault. This was over unenlightened statements about the sexualization of minors in a ritual setting in a book written 30 years ago. That’s not to say we don’t have plenty of work to do or awareness to build, but our interest in the problem runs a hell of a lot deeper than jumping in on one trending social media story.
Nice assumption. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
This is everyones issue, because the message this judge sent to the world is that athletes are above the law and they can do whatever they want and get away with it with only a slap on the wrist. He’s just given the green light for on campus rape to continue basically. That isn’t just one girls problem.
Good point. However, the efforts of most value would be addressing all issues of sexual transgression, within and without the Pagan world.
I am not against the hexing idea. But I’m also very wary of the public bit. “To know, to will, to dare, and to keep silent”– this. I’m also not afraid of karma or things coming back to bite me in the rear. To do things or not do things because of fear of Divine retribution– to me, that smacks of the dogma of a much larger set of religions. JMO. I do or don’t do things according to my conscience. And yes, I often seek guidance before such actions.
“To know, to will, to dare, and to keep silent” is very specifically Wiccan, and while some non-Wiccans may have also adopted this, not every Pagan has, and you cannot hold every Pagan and Witch to a creed to which they do not subscribe.
Fair enough 🙂
I’m not Wiccan, but I still practice according to the “witch’s pyramid” as do many other non Wiccans I know. The keeping of silence has not to with public workings, but with discernment and mindfulness surrounding when to speak and when to not speak, among other things. And it isn’t about keeping secrets or staying hidden. Those are separate and not universal things. The witch’s pyramid is useful thing, but not a restraining thing.
I have never heard “The Witch’s Pyramid” before! I’ve been a Witch for what seems like forever. There’s always something new to be learned, I’d wager. I assume you are referring to the “to Will, to Dare” etc. thing?
I am unashamedly Wiccan, and very “out” about it, but yeah, to be discerning and mindful is never a bad thing, IMO, for anyone to practice. I’m learning how and when to keep my big mouth shut 😉
Yes, the witch’s pyramid is “to know, to will, to dare, to keep silent.” 🙂
I guessed as much. Lovely name, btw– I share it 😀
Workings done on behalf of justice ill served, has often been the job of witches, spellcrafters, root workers and others…and those who cry out against it most, might personally have the most to fear, do to their own actions. Be the work to protect those who have been wrongly accused or sentenced or work on behalf of victims, against a perpetrator not held accountable, nor remorseful.
I am also reminded of some teachings I have had…sometimes the ‘best’ Hex, is the one that is only spoken of, then the recipent does all the work…
(in reverse, don’t believe everything said aloud…or take on that which has not been worked upon you.)
Yes, the guilty hex themselves
😀
ah.. typical women logic…. creating solutions that solves nothing… -_-
What would you do then…oh wise man? Where’s your solution, besides chastising women?
Don’t feed the trolls, Luci. It’s just that much harder to evict them. They get attached, it’s just messy.
Awwww, well, if male logic resulted in fewer sex crimes, these hexes wouldn’t happen. But I’m going to flag your comment, anyway.
Why assume only women would care and only women are witches?
Or that only women are rape victims.
Not my comment in anyway.
Misogynist.
His long term fate is NOT prosperous at all. He will continue to be a criminal, continue to rape, and one day he will kill someone. All these things would have happened regardless of whether or not he got caught this time. This kid was born evil. The best thing for society would be to put a death hex on him. There’s a good chance he will die in prison, or die young as a result of AIDS or some other STD contracted in prison. When he gets out, his opportunities for employment will be dramatically diminished. He would have gone on to be a politician. That’s out of the scope of possibilities now. He’s going to have to start his own business if he’s going to make enough money to live on his own. He probably will. Marriage is not likely for this kid. His own mother secretly hates him for what he has done, though she pretends to still love him.
I don’t think this particular spell with the impotency is the best idea. He has already cursed himself, and the judge and father doubled down on it. I think the best spell to do here is a binding spell to prevent him from access to his next victims. And maybe double down with a protection spell toward his future victims.
You need to check out the Facebook page his girlfriend and family have proposing him for the Olympics – they see him as a total victim of a selfish woman who hurt him for no reason. The hatred and victim blaming on that page is sickening. There is enough of that going around that he has far more of a future than we might hope. There is no belief in his family that he has done anything wrong, so they will continue to support him, and to push this under the rug.
I can understand it though. Who would want to know their son or boyfriend raped a girl behind a dumpster while she was passed out? Not saying it’s right…it’s definitely not ok.
Denial helps them survive the whole ordeal. He didn’t just fuck his own life up, and the poor womans, he made them all look like assholes who didn’t raise their son right as well and they still have to live in the community.
I appreciate that, but the cards say otherwise. He and his family can do all the campaigning and advertising for him that they want to do. It’s just going to dig him in deeper.
They’re in denial and they have to also now live in the community where they will undoubtedly be shunned and ostracised by everyone they see in their daily lives. The mother has to put on that act, but deep down she knows he’s just like her husband and she picked the wrong man.
What is the page?
“Born evil”? Are you kidding? He seems to be a privileged brat who committed a terrible crime who has an asshole father who keeps trying to minimize his son’s transgressions. Not okay, of course, but “born evil”?
As I mentioned above, I volunteer in a prison People can change. Did you ever hear of restorative justice?
Macha, I’m just reporting on the reading, that’s all. Yes, I’ve heard of restorative justice. Thanks for the reminder. However, this isn’t about that. There are evil souls in the world, both living and disembodied. He’s one of them, according to the reading I did before I posted this. That’s not to say that an evil soul cannot be trained to evolve toward goodness – but that’s not what happened to him or what will happen to him. He is being trained toward the understanding that evil is something he can get away with because of his status. I’ve known several evil men who are like that. All of them white, all but one quite wealthy. I recall one of them in particular making the statement that the date rape drug is so great because it shortens the statute of limitations due to the victim’s lack of memory. I won’t say who he was – he was the lesser of many evils, actually.
So, yes, according to the Tarot cards, he is an evil soul, and was born that way. I did a parallel timeline on him. It revealed that he would have a far more prosperous life if he spends the next 15 years in prison. Instead, he got off with a slap on the hand, which reinforced what he has already learned in this life. It also revealed he’s going to rape again, and that there is a possible murder in his future. His father made a huge mistake looking at the short term.
I agree. He’s a product of his environment and society sending him constant messages that he is above the law and nothing bad will ever happen to him. I grew up with boys like this and they ruined so many peoples lives and never got punished. Their father was a senator. They were evil in their behaviour, but I don’t believe in evil souls born…at least, they aren’t common if at all. Psychopaths are probably the closest thing to pure evil, but they have a part of their brain missing…the human part…so it’s not exactly evil, it’s different brain structure. I think people can change, but many don’t want to. They only change if they really want to and when you are privileged there is no reason to want to change.
If you understand the power of mass consciousness then you will understand the power of change. When you psychically return energy to it’s rightful owners they MUST re-own it; they have NO choice; THEY created it THEY must accept it back to themselves; it is NO ones but THEIRS.
No harm comes to those who consciously send Love and Support to the victim. When she receives that Love and Support there is no space left in her life caused by the damage done by these men; evil must return to it’s rightful owners.
I was always told that you never talk about a spell least you weaken it’s energy. Considering the weird beliefs about us Witches outsiders have, I think that should go more so for hexes and curses. As for the Rule Of Three that is a Wiccan thing and not everyone follows it, not even Wiccans. It is also said that a Witch that cannot harm, can not heal either. Magic is not good or bad, just energy, so intent is all that makes a difference. You can use negative magic for good, such as cursing an illness out of existence and you can use positive magic and create harm,such as a love spell to make someone love you, though your intent was not to harm. Both taking action,and deciding not to take action, can cause harm to someone somewhere without your intent. So each must decide for yourself what is best. But then don’t advertise what you are about to do. Think if this stupid college man suddenly gets hurt, people are going to remember this public mention of some Witches to hex. That endangers the rest of us, both Wiccans, Witches and perhaps other Pagans. Do you want to launch another Satanic Panic like the 1980s among some of the religious crazies? Innocent people got hurt over that, sent to prison. What you put on the internet is literally forever, and may I remind you that the government does monitor the Internet. So use care about what you put on the Internet for your own safety.
What are the government gonna do…arrest a bunch of women for essentially praying for bad things to happen to him? Freedom of religion is also a thing here.
Those people accused of Satanic ritual child abuse, that there was no evidence of still got a variety of people sent to prison in the United States,Canada and England. Here in the United States the last one only got out less that five years ago. Their families broke up,their property gone, their reputations ruined and even when they were let go they were not allowed to sue for damages. Also remember all of your records can be hacked and changed if the government or anyone else wanted to show you were guilty of a crime.
As for freedom of religion, explain that to the Wiccans in Fort hood Texas who have had their quarter ton stone altar smashed, their sacred areal littered and defiled with human shit, and no one ever convicted. The hassledascontinuedsincethe1990s
Freedom of religion is not gaurentted if your religion is unpopular in the local area. We have seen people get their houses trashed over and over, their pets tortured and killed, their cars damaged, in one case some one trying to burn it down while the Wiccan was inside, both of those in one town in North Carolina. No police investigation no one charged or trial and no compensation for the damage.
One Wiccan fled town and the other had to buy another house because the original trashed one was no longer livable and the town had tried to condemn it while she was under attack It was the town council that outed her, and then ordered to police not to do any serious investigations of the attack. She fought them all the way to the Supreme Court, but must work form home even so as to be away from home leaves it open to being trashed and her animals killed again
A person not allowed to open a shop and temple on this home, when other homes were allowed to run business and the church across street shinning bright lights into his windows and preaching against him. He had met with town people about opening a church and they had seemed friendly so he had move in this town in Kansas.
Then you always have to deal with the local religious crazies, who might take it into their head that they need to kill you because you are not Christian. This is a reason why so many people are solitary and private. Things are better than when I started in the middle of the early 80s and the Satanic Child Abuse scandal,but there are still plenty of places that have the potential to be dangerous.
All of this is just in the 21st Century about most of these other people. If you live in a safe area where their is an active Pagan community and where you can have public gatherings, then fine. That is not in the town just down the road from me. I am one of two open Wiccans. both of us live outside of town, I am seventy and she is retired. Any others are still fearfully solitary in the broom closet and this is a mild small town for the southwest. But their is no Pagan community at all nearer than sixty miles away, and university town. So all my friends and community are just on line. Before the internet, just letter friends, people that I never meet.
Questions of the wisdom of hexing aside, wouldn’t cursing a rapist tend to mitigate against the idea that Pagans endorse ritual sexual abuse?
Only if they get beyond the idea of Pagans hexing. Remember most Pagan communities don’t use magic and Most Wiccans do not hex. So this openly will suggest that hexing is common in the Pagan community, and that is what the religious crazies will use in their propaganda.
By the way, though I don’t do it myself, I do not have any problem with the idea a of hexing or cursing if the situation warrents it. But I don’t think it is wise to broadcast that you are going to do it, or even broadcast that you do spells to the general public.
When one is public, you do have a responsibility not to do injury to those who dare not be public.
Yes, I have heard all kinds of horrific stories from the US. You guys have so many fundamentalist christians, so it’s no wonder. I think we have some of what you describe that goes on in Australia, but I haven’t heard of the stories being to that magnitude. I was saying the other day to a fellow Pagan friend of mine that I have to stop and really pinch myself when I think that there are still so many people who hold these fearful and ignorant beliefs in the world, and it is still such an unsafe place for anyone practising a magickal path. It really is surreal.
Again the reason for public Pagans, including, Wiccans and Pagan Witches to be responsible when speaking out. You endanger others besides yourself.
Yes I can understand that. However, people are going to think what they like anyway…regardless of how many pagans try and promote themselves and other witches as being harmless and peace loving. It doesn’t matter how many times you drill it into their skulls, they will still see things from within their own filters and prejudices, and that won’t really change unless they all start looking at those filters and prejudices and start opening their minds a bit more, so in the meantime, it’s kinda human to turn around and go “Well, you think we’re all evil and throw curses at people…watch this”. I don’t agree with putting fear onto people like that, but they might just back off if they read that some women are actively cursing.
*snort* Hahahahaha!
If we are going to claim to be any better, should we not live up to higher standards than they do. Not if actually attacked, then all bets are off and I might even throw a curse into the ether. Self defense is always allowed, even to a Wiccan. But so far, I have very good ways to protect myself from known harm coming and have not had to sue a curse yet.
I don’t know. Isn’t claiming to be better than others in some way kinda egoic to start with? I mean, it’s all good in theory but you’re talking about mob mentality and it’s like a wild beast in a killing frenzy once it gets started.
Revenge is a natural impulse and instinct in all humans, whether they want to admit to it or not. We’re taught that it’s better to not give into that and most people don’t, but I think all bets would be off if your child were raped or something of that level of atrocious and you’d very quickly put your morals aside and give in to the heart of darkness that beats under the surface.
I think it’s one of the beautiful things about paganism and witchcraft is learning all the varying beliefs and differences among us.
If anything it might make these people back off and leave everyone in the scene alone. They had no proof of any of their silly claims before, but now they do and if they are wise they will stay well away and stop hassling people who’ve done nothing to them..
I agree with you though. Curses aren’t something to throw around without a very good reason and most of the time they aren’t needed.
Witchcraft is not all about light, it is also about our dark side, the lesson of Cernunnos…. we hold the sway and must return balance, the divine feminine is under attack and our duty is clear…
Ineteresting article. I cursed the man who raped me. he was killed by a large dog. I have no idea how. got the curse from someone who sold his soul to the devil when his rabbi molested his baby girl. That rabbi was also killed by a large dog.
but the SJWwitches need to break the curse Anton LeVay put on the Hippie and Left wing movement back in the 60s because they wouldn’t blindly follow him, so he called them ‘apathetic’. He set the course of our progress back
No joke? These things happened?
A friend did a curse on a man who assaulted me. He suffered some truly bad luck, and his daughter died tragically.
I think I may have accidentally cursed my own father for being such an asshole for years to me, just with my thoughts. I did no formal ritual, but he went through absolute hell for 10 years, without it ceasing, and I felt a sense of being avenged. Shit happens I know, but he really lost everything. Then again, he’s a narcissist so he probably cursed himself?
Interesting. Maybe your thoughts contributed to his life downturning. How did he end up?
I haven’t seen him in 3 years so not sure now, but last I did see him he looked like a wreck. There was so much pain there. He lost his mother and his brother to cancer and dementia within a month of each other, his business went down the tube, he lost the house he built that he loved so much, and all his friends once the money ran out, and then he lost me…but he brought that on himself.
I did post a rather long reply but it’s no longer here for some reason? Basically everything verity mentioned in her justice spell…that’s what unfolded for him. I have a VERY strong sense of justice and always have. I haven’t seen him in 3 years so I honestly have no idea how he ended up, but he lost pretty much everything except my two brothers.
Wow!
I believe it is quite clear that justice was not served by our justice system. Anyone who has been raped or has a loved one who has been raped may have processed the experience as I have, but I don’t believe any of us standing in that courtroom and hearing such a sentence passed on our own perpetrator would have called it justice.
I personally don’t believe that belief in the 3-fold law or karma should hamstring us from seeking justice from the Universe when our human-created and human-maintained – and therefore fallible – legal system fails. I also don’t believe that I cannot be a tool for the Universe in implementing justice. But the decision to cast anything out into the Universe is a personal one. I will not criticize anyone taking part in whatever way they feel appropriate, nor will I criticize anyone for feeling they cannot take part. Anyone taking part who is UNsure of the justice of what they are doing will most likely receive negative effects from it.
For myself, I will cast a justice spell I have used to good effect before. Until the three people involved – the rapist Brock Turner who is unrepentant and self-victimizes, the father Dan Turner who defends his son’s actions by belittling and excusing the rape, and the judge Aaron Persky who reduces justice to a minimum amount he thought he could get away with – realize the truth of what they have done, are truly sorry for it and make amends as best they can, nothing good will happen in their lives. Their loved ones will turn away from them, their livelihoods will fail, and the things they treasure will be removed from them. Light protect the innocents around them while justice is served. So mote it be.
Justice is now up to THEM. As long as they continue to walk this hurtful path, they will receive hurt of their own making. When they leave the path for a more enlightened one, the spell retreats. What they put out into the Universe is what they will receive. Now any karmic consequences are entirely in their hands. Brock Turner, Dan Turner, Aaron Persky: the Universe is watching you. Walk carefully. So mote it be.
Dear woman against whom this crime was perpetrated: You may never see the consequences your victimizers Brock Turner, Dan Turner, and Aaron Persky receive as a result of their actions. Do not waste any more energy on them. Go through this experience and come out of it a whole person. The best justice is for you to live a good and whole life. Don’t let them rob you of one more second of the life you deserve. Take the time you need to heal and to process this heinous thing so you can put it in the past – never will it be forgotten, but neither should it hold you back from your own fulfillment. You can do this, Sister. I know; I did. You will too. So mote it be.
She has to waste more energy in it, because Turner is appealing his conviction.
Then there’s a rope and a lamp post some dark night.
I’d say just shoot him but, California. Wouldn’t want to make him into the victim.
A reversal spell (google it) might also do the trick for this guy. That way, he could experience what he did to those women…especially if he’s in prison.
Jail isn’t like prison. He will do three months in a special unit No one will touch him.
Do you really hope that he’s sexually assaulted?
Just finished. but i have much rage.
Just because someone doesn’t follow the rules of 3 does not mean that it negates the effects of the dark you work.
I am not generally open about my practice however during that time, I will perform a ritual to help bring clarity to the minds of those that chose to be lenient. Their wrong doings Will eventually come back on them, I trust in the universe. I will give an offering to help draw justice to the girl assaulted.
The situation needs healing and mending.
I have been raped twice and this verdict just angers me to no end. Its hard enough to get someone to believe you, much less prosecute, and then to get slapped in the face by the judge! That damn judge should be disbarred and I suspect he will not have his job long, one way or another! I will not do the hex because just cant find it in me to invite any more bad luck coming my way…but I do plan on doing some sort of spell on my own! Go Get em!!
…..I am mortified
Do you have any idea how petty you sound?
No. I didn’t know that was the same as being mortified by public hexing. Please tell me how petty I sound. Be thorough, this is for posterity.
Somebody’s been raped, there’s been a gross miscarriage of justice, and people doing a hex is what upsets you? Petty.
It is good to know what the rules are for taking vigilante justice on someone. I can’t wait to judge other people and then met out my own punishment on them. I can’t think of any way that this is evil, or even inappropriate.
The reason that it is a problem to curse people publically, because this is what makes the non magickal people to kill is, and burn us, and drag us behind trucks. People do not like living in a reality where some people have magickal abilities that they use against others.
They want that anyway, now they have confirmation that it’s true, unlike before, they might actually just stay away and leave pagans alone.
Honestly, if karma hurts these witches for taking action the only way they can really, that would be really lame. I really hope they have no repercussions from this, and I hope they are literally karma in manifest bringing justice.
A great rebuke if your were rebuking 18 year old girls that were saying they were speaking for the Pagan community, but this groups is made of all walks of magick, including striking my interest, a 42 year old Chaote with Hoodoo leanings that does not subscribe to, but respects your opinion, of three fold karma and such. I prefer articles that zero in on the actual meat of the matter and stay on track. Your concerns are valid, just not for this particular soirée.
Her name is LaSara, not Larissa.
I wondered, if this perpetrator gets sexually assaulted while lock up, will that just count as 20 mins of “action?”
Is this hex coercive, forceful, destructive, a violation? Looks like it. How is that any different from what Turner did? I agree that justice is not being served, yet this Hex seems to be no different than Turner’s actions….doing and taking something, forcefully, without consent.
Well, for starters, it’s not felonious activity. Derp.
For the short amount of time he’ll be in prison, he will have had his freedom taken from him without consent. Murders who go to prison–especially those who end up getting the death penalty–have no only their freedom but their lives taken without their consent. Being caught and convicted of a crime is understood to come with a punishment that includes taking away some portion of freedoms without the criminal’s consent; they gave up that right when they committed a crime.
Any system of justice is predicated on the idea that the rightfully convicted criminal has huge swaths of their lives taken away without their consent. So, using your argument, we should never incarcerate wrong-doers, or punish them at all in any way. Because we’re doing so obviously without their consent.
Proof that wiccans are nothing more than christians.
Were you all of hexing OJ Simpson when he got a way with MURDER? Nope.
Were is the hex for the 10 year old hispanic boy who stabbed 20 times by an african american, who stated, that it was fun? Nope
How about the two Destrahan, LA female teachers who were sexual assaulting boys in their classes for five years who have still NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING. Where’s your hexing bitches? Nope.
So basically, you’re hexing white males and only white males.
Just remember witches, you aint the only folks who can hex.
You don’t know what these women have done in private. This is being spoken about publically…it doesn’t mean other cases have not been considered and action taken on? Threatening hexes because you assume there is some sort of racial vilification going on is just a bit stupid.
I’m just gonna say the judge did the right thing. What the guy did, wrong, what the girl did, wrong. I was conversing online with a male activist one time, who was debating a feminist as well, in a forum. He said something I’ll never forget. He said he had a daughter to this rabid feminist, who was constantly saying he was harsh for holding women responsible for actions…and he said if anyone ever raped his daughter, he’d kill them. He also said he had to teach his daughter, if you’re going to go out partying, drinking, passing out at parties, you’re going to take responsibilty for your actions when you wake up with a stranger, NOT accuse them of rape.
Jesus Cocking Christ…can you see what you have just written? You are saying the girl is in the wrong for getting drunk. SHE can get as blackout- drunk as she wants, the rapists are the problem (and folks like you come to think of it), NOT what the victims were or weren’t doing
Okay, well what about female rapists? When women rape babies, and children, and passed out males who have errections, they don’t get in trouble, in fact, I read articles, and can post links where, one in particular, a female raped a male on a college campus, and then cried rape and had the male arrested.
Oh fuck off! Stop turning it around to suit yourself. This isn’t a debate on whether women rape as well. This is about that person who got raped.Go sit in your MRA circle jerk and talk about the woes of being a man.
YOu fuck off, you said rapists are the problem, no YOU stop turning around. What are you gonna do about it. Nothing, that’s what. Women better smarten the fuck up in America. I’ve never seen a more privledged fucking being to walk the planet. I’m DONE watching them rape babies, rape students, one teacher raped her 13 year old student, then a judge made her victim pay child support when he turned 18. You fuck off, and stop being a little simp, white knight for fucked up degenerate women. How about that?
*popcorn*
wow, this went somewhere unexpected
Pointing out that whem women rape nothing happens, and when men rape they get full penalty and even have people clamoring to sexually mutilate them, isn’t turning it around it’s demonstrating a double standard you dumb fucking fuck tard.
Men DON’T get the full penalty. As this case amply demonstrates. Misogynist.
No, turning the focus from THIS actual case onto male rape IS turning it around. Stop throwing abuse at me. This isn’t a debate on male injustice, so stop trying to make it one if you are at all capable of that within your self centred fucked up vile head. THIS particular topic is about the cursing of a rapist that you went ahead and blamed the girl for. That makes YOU the dumb fucktard that no one wants to hear from in this matter.
When you speak to my point of the double standard of all the probably 50 to a hundred women I’ve seen do no jail time for sexually assaulting childeren, even their own, making pedo films for a little extra cash, then I’ll address your issues.
The very same argument can be made as you just gave for those incidences. If he was so drunk that he was passed out and she raped him, then it’s his fault…right? No…of course not. I know men that has happened to and they would breakdown if anyone tried to say it was their fault for being drunk and passing out. So why is it somehow different when you blame women for doing the same? Rape is always 100% the responsability of the rapist…end of story. That goes for men or women rapists.
You forgot the one differnce which is when the male is passed out, not only is the girl NOT arrested which would be making the same argument, she can then have her victime arrested her victim is. Having the same arugment would be this guy then goes to the office after he rapes her, then has her arrested for rape.
So what you’re saying is because the legal system is not fair towards male victims of rape this guy should only get a lesser sentence as well?
You are still distracting from THIS actual situation, which has nothing at all to do with male rape.
I’m saying what everyone is ALWAYS crying about. Equal treatment. EQUAL TREATMENT. PERIOD. JUSTICE BE DONE though the heavens may fall, and that’s not happening, women are getting preferencial treatment, from colleges, from courts, and I don’t know if people noticed, but MEN ARE DISAPPEARING off of campuses, and out of the workforce because they’re white gloved, many times punnished even when they’re VINDICATED, and women get away with murder, and I say that LITERALLY. I can post probably 10 articles right now where women MURDER they’re boyfriends and husbands, and get probation. KILL their children and people say, ohhhh, she was stressed out. I’m done with it, and anyone who disagrees, YOU’RE condoning rape of underage boys, so fuck you rape apologists.
How on earth did you come to that wacky conclusion? Did I ever once condone rape of young boys? All you are doing is taking the focus off the actual subject here and making it about boys.
I came to that conclusion when I noticed there’s not nearly the outrage from women and feminists in forums on articles where women rape little boys. Pretty good way to guage how people think huh, reading comments and seeing how different genders respond to see how society as a whole feels, and how they seem to not give a FUCK about young males and females perving them because American women are so disgusting now and psycho, men don’t want to marry them any more. I think they’re turning to little boys to get sex now, these teachers who hate men and say there’s no good men anymore.
pffftttt, i’d rather retroactively punish all those women AND the judges who let them go!
Making offhanded claims that I condone rape against boys when I said no such thing pretty much excludes you from any semblance of rational, reasonable civilized debate.
Anyone who isn’t regularly speaking out against the RASh, the STORM, the new phenomina of women raping students in the education system and NOT going to prison for it IS condoning the rape of boys by silence, and aquiesence, and I want to see PSA (public service announcements) saying, Teach Women Not To Rape, like men have to put up with, because as far as I can tell women are doing at least half the raping in this country now, maybe MORE THAN HALF, and you hear nothing.
and actually this is an insult to men too, what you are saying is that we cant help ourselves, it isn’t all our fault, the girl was drunk, we can shift some of the blame on her. There is one person at fault here – the rapist – dont want to be a rapist: dont rape people.
You seriously are a fucked up individual
yah, because wanting women to smarten up and not go to fucking frat parties in college where this stuff notoriously goes on and pass out. No lesson for her huh? no YOU’RE seriously fucked up, and you can fuck off, and no little stupid hex is going to work on me either, lol, so you can forget that.
My biggest reason for my stance on this is because I see artlicle almost everyday, at least once a week where women are let off for molesting children, minors, their own children (one lady made porn with her one year old for a new lap top), on and on, and they get off with NO jail time – probation mostly. I’m sick of all women are perpetual victims and all males are the enemy, who are basically sex staved now and now having families til their lives are almost over if at all. If you don’t like it. Fuck you, what are you gonna do about it.
Our office has both men and women who get probation for sexual assaults of all kinds. We have both who go to jail. Each county, judge, prosecutor and defense attorney is different. Each case is different. Not sure why it’s ok or rape women cause you don’t like the system. It’s like saying it’s ok to shoot you if I don’t like gun control.
It doesn’t matter what you’re sick of.
Sure does, because we’re winning. Albeit a small number, more and more I see women getting arrested for making false allegations, and for raping….so say what you want. I’m winning. Men are waking up and winning.
No. No no no. Also, you’re pretty screwed up.
You need a shrink if you think you’re winning anything. Trying to make male rape more important and male injustice more important than rape towards women, pretty much means you couldn’t give a flying fuck what happens to women and you don’t care at all for equality, so what do you actually stand for besides hatred of women and self centred whining at losing all your privileges and power structure?
You need a shrink if you think that the rape of women ISN’T ALREADY treated more importantly than male rape. Has nothing to do with what anyone is doing or saying in here, it’s what I’m gonna talk about until I actually see it being practiced in the justce system.
Do you think that has something to do with the fact that the overwhelming number of people who molest children are heterosexual men?
We can’t know that, because it’s not counted when women do it, I don’t think people are REALLY understanding what I’m saying here. Criminology statistics can’t possibly reflect true statistics because men don’t report rape by women, but I know its epidemic, because almost EVERY one of my male friends has told me that one time or another a woman has not taken No for an answer, has groped them, tried to pull their pants down, OR they had a hard on while sleeping and a girl they thought was just a friend was riding them when they woke up…(which she KNOWS if she gets pregnant, he’s gonna have to pay for it).
Also, I women teachers raping minor students is epidemic. I read an article lately where a woman raped minor in New Orleans, and at the Same School, a year or so earlier, two Other female teachers were in trouble for the same thing. What are the Odds of that. I read about it almost every week now, Mothers are having babies with biological sons now, making kiddy ponr films with their own infants now, and it’s not Considered criminal, lol….so how can you possibly KNOW if men do it more. This is only what’s being reported, I think it’s going on All over the country, every day from the residue so to speak in the media, and the media soft peddles it so as to make it acceptable for women to do this stuff.
I’ve known men like that too, and no one is saying that there isn’t injustice there as well. No one. I’ve counselled men who were beaten by their wives and girlfriends. I do not in any way condone that kind of behaviour from women and it sickens me that they behave that way. If we want equality we have to not go and do the exact same thing and expect to get away with it. But the way you all handle things…it doesn’t evoke a compassionate response because you are disrespectful in the way you go about trying to discuss the issue.
now that sounds reasonable, because in my experience women have total agency, so I’m gonna throw it in their face and stick up for men until I see women smarten up, and stop gaming the system against the men of their own country, and stop acting like we live in a giant patriarchy where women are the victims, and rapists are hiding behind every bush, and I’m gonna tell women to practice safety and be careful and look out, same as I would tell one of my male friends, the world is dangerous, theres bad men AND women, watch out.
Firstly she didn’t wake up with a stranger…she woke up in a hospital in a gurney with pine needles stuck in her vagina and no memory of what happened. I highly doubt alcohol was the obly thing in her system and seriously believe he slipped her a rufie…she would have remembered something if she was just drunk.
Secondly…victim blaming this girl for being drunk? Seriously? Fuck off. Her actions in no way dictated HIS actions. He took advantage of the situation and fucked her with his fingers behind a dumpster. If you think that is in any way acceptable then you are also as sick as he is.
She got passed out drunk at a college party, dumb. Very dumb, she should smarten up, and he should be punnished which he is, I think it’s a wrap, but go ahead and hex him, that’s your right I suppose under freedom to chose.
Whether it was dumb of her or not, she did nothing wrong here…he did. He raped her. Getting drunk isn’t a crime, rape is. His so called punishment is a slap on the wrist and you know it.
I never said I was into hexing. I support the women who are hexing him though. Personally I would go for a binding spell if anything to prevent future behaviour like this. He will get a lesson in prison without any external help with that. Rich white athletes with fathers who pay off judges to give them a lighter sentence are not well received in prison..county or otherwise. The predator becomes the prey. Poetic justice.
yep, a slap on the wrist, and the women are crying bloody murder, unlike when males are raped, and you hear silence, crickets. I would say full punnishment, but then I’d be a hypocrite. It’s an unpopular stance you bet, but I don’t care if the sky falls, equal treatment.
She didn’t commit any crimes, but he committed and was convicted of multiple felonies.
Again, making it all about the men. You really don’t give a crap about anything but mens issues and the injustices there. Your constant distracting from womens issues here proves that. I have no time for you.
Women are crying bloody murder because he raped her and got no time at all, and you basically said that’s ok because boo hoo…what about poor men?
Women are not valued in this society. No one is saying there aren’t also problems with how male rape is viewed but take mens issues to another forum and stop making THIS miscarriage of justice about YOU and male injustice, this isn’t the place for it.
A feminist once deal thus with this argument: If I passed out drunk in a bar and you took my purse, it would still be theft. If you had sex with me, it would still be rape.
I didn’t say it wasn’t rape, it’s absolutely rape…I’m saying women at these colleges are menaced with the “rape culture”…they then do what? Go to frat parties and pass out drunk? I like to hunt grizzley’s too, naked with no guns, covered in honey, and I also like to leave my house and car unlocked, and go into dangerous neighborhoods, unarmed and alone at night (sarcasm). Then on TOP of that attitude of it’s a rape culture, but don’t be careful attitude, when a woman rapes, there’s no outrage. Now the women here know how the men feel who are crying out for women who get slaps on the wrist for hanous crimes feel. Maybe they’ll start pushing harder for this society to start treating ALL rape, and ALL violence angainst anyone by anyone as haneous, not just when men do it.
We know how you feel because we hear it ALL THE TIME..and usually on forums discussing terrible tragedies about women! You come in and change the subject and focus and make it about men. It’s not cool.
AND your GONNA fucking hear until I see men and women actually treated eqaually you fucking silly fucktard!
Victim-blaming. Men’s rights activists are misogynists dressed up in sheep’s clothing.
Men get drunk all the time, and don’t rape. Getting drunk is not an excuse for rape. Getting drunk is not a reason to tell a woman she deserved to be raped, or got what she deserved, or that she just needs to take responsibility for her part.
Get it through your head: a woman has not responsibility for the men who decide to rape her.
I hope that MRA’s daughter gets far, far away from her father when she’s grown.
Telling women to be more careful is not victim blaming, same as telling someone to be careful in dangerous neighborhoods.
Dude, it’s pretty much telling women they deserve what they get for not ordering their existence around what you suppose to be the inevitability of rape culture. It’s the same reasoning used in the Middle East which tells women they bring on rape by dressing “immodestly” or going out in public without male family members.
You weren’t telling them to be more careful though, you were blaming her soley for getting raped and calling her the dumb one and placed absolutely zero emphasis on the fact that he raped her. You even said it was just drunken sex.
And YOU won’t speak to the fact that I’m talking about how women DON’T go to jail regularly for raping minors, and how that makes men feel.
I don’t give a shit how you feel. I’m not conversing with you again. You were verbally abusive to me earlier and blamed this girl for being raped (you weren’t telling her to be more careful at all, you flat out blamed her and agreed with the judges decision) You don’t deserve my input. I’ve acknowledged the subject you are speaking of and shown compassion for what you are speaking about. I’m not engaging with you any further. So if you choose to reply just know it will be a waste of your finger breath.
The guy didn’t break into her dorm room and violently rape her, she went to a fucking FRAT party, got drunk and passed out. Not smart if you’re taught you live in a rape culture which is what they teach on college campuses, and they also teach that pretty much all sex with a man is rape in these gender studies class. So it makes me wonder how one thinks when their told there is a rape culture on these campuses, then they go and pass out around a bunch of horny drunk alpha males.
Fine though, I could care less if you talk to me.
Congratulations, you are advocating misogyny and victim blaming.
And you are advocating hurting people with magick, which puts you side by side with the people you are attempting to distance yourself from
This is NOT a call for pagans to make, for you know that it will come back on him of it’s own. If we use the craft for vengeance it will come back even harder than three by three!
Also, just a thought to consider, in the letter from his father it HAD to be worded carefully as anything that was said could be used against his son even so far as to admitting that he had done anything wrong! Do not punish him for trying to aid his son. We are always told that we are supposed to support our children, not in the wrong that they have done but in dealing with the consequences and in the learning of the lesson of it. Love and support your child regardless their actions. He is doing just that!
As to the judge, well … again he, too, will face the natural results of his choices.
Not everyone believes that.
Sure, they’ll face the “natural results” of their choices. That’s why the world is fair, and racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, patriarchy, rape culture, and all those others things just don’t exist. Because karma and the threefold law automatically and always ensure that people get what they deserve.
Did… did you get the sarcasm? I’m not sure if it was clear or not.
Also, if I had a kid and my kid raped or murdered someone, I could love them while also being angry, upset, disappointed, and horrified at what they’d done.
My only issue with this is that there are lots of times justice isn’t served. Do you hex or call out for justice for all victims? Why does this case get special attention for you? The victim is happy with the outcome. Why do you need to push your agenda? Please people spend a day at your local courthouse. A local person may need this attention by you in your own community.
Some of the aspects of this case have galvanized people, we could try to speculate as to why but I don’t know if we will ever agree on an answer.
But when someone gives money to a charity do you berate them for not giving to every single charity? Why does the fact that other rapists (and judges possibly) aren’t hexed does it mean we shouldn’t hex these ones?
I work in the system and people who tend to grab these cases almost never know what their local system is doing. You and anyone else can do what they like I was just giving my stance. Sorry that bothered you
You can always ask the organizer why she chose this particular issue.
Where do you get that “the victim is happy with the outcome”? She’s devastated. Did you read her letter? All he needed to do at the outset was admit his crime and apologize and it would have been done with. Instead, he and his supporters dragged the victim into a public exposure of her personal life and caused her more pain.
The letter was written as a victim statement to the Probation Officer for the report. Subsequent articles have said she did not want him incarcerated as much as educated and counseled. Subsequent articles have also said he apologized. If those are wrong them I am mistaken.
Personally I find the love and light and misguided and bastardized concepts of karma the New Age community use to be unrealistic. I see nothing wrong with a little hexing and I sure don’t believe in a Three fold law as I’m not “Wiccan”. I consider myself to be a folk or hedge witch with traditional witchcraft beliefs. If you’re a solitary “Wiccan” (which itself has issues) you can believe in three fold, but don’t push that belief on the rest of us.
I guess I don’t understand how hexing makes one a better person. So why use it? It is sad to see so many people use witchcraft as a platform for hate or immorality. You don’t have to follow a Wiccan Rede or believe in a 3-fold law to want to be a good person, take the high road, or deal with matters productively and positively. Just my two cents.
Hate only breeds hate. It does not bring peace – not to society or oneself. Attacking one person will not help victims of violence or change rape culture. It only lowers us to his level.
It’s not about being a better person. It’s about justice, in this case, as they see it.
I understand justice was not served and I am angry as well. I am one of 4 women who has been touched without permission. However, this just isn’t my solution. Everyone has a different code of ethics. Every choice you make impacts you. I can’t consciously make what I consider a mistake because it suits me at that time. That doesn’t improve me as a person. It is up to individuals to decide if the end justifies the means. In this case I don’t agree with either (that is just me). Two people on this thread have already alluded to being involved in the death of other people – one of whom was an innocent. I am a Pagan (not just a witch) and that holds no place in my spirituality.
Right – it’s not what you’d do. But the article isn’t about you, it’s about a group of people who did this.
Yep. And I chimed in on a comment board with a sincere question to Hats. I’m simply stating an opinion. I understand it isn’t yours. I used “I” statements on purpose and acknowledged everyone has different codes of ethics. No need to attack.
Does sitting by and doing nothing in the face of injustice when you have weapons for fighting back in your arsenal make a good person?
I don’t suggest sitting back. There is a change.org petition to remove the judge. I can write letters to the government, send positive energy to the victims, and volunteer at my local hotline. Even binding is a better option.
I’ve signed that petition, and others. I’m not working only magically, because I believe magic and work in the physical should go together. But I also believe magic is a tool for justice, and I believe that if we’re called by the gods to fight for justice, we’re expected to use every weapon we have to do so.
If you don’t, that’s fine. If you’re not called in this way, that’s okay. I’m not asking that you or anyone else believe what I do, or fight in ways you’re not called to fight.
What I’m asking is that you realize that I also do not have to believe as you do, and that those of us who choose to fight magically have the right to do so… and that if we’re going to experience any kind of backlash for it, it’s our backlash to take, and our choice to make.
We’re not using Witchcraft as a platform to hate; we’re using it is a platform to fight hatred, and fight injustice. For many of us, that’s what Witchcraft is.
Thank you. This was a very intelligent and concise answer to the question I originally posed above and gives me a much better idea of where you are coming from. If you re-read my respones, I think you will find that I understand it is okay we don’t think the same.
I see you say we don’t all have to follow the Wiccan Rede or the threefold law… but I also see you assuming that using our magic in the realm of justice is using it for “hate, immorality, or personal vendettas.”
Now, I’m not ignorant or naive. I know there are Witches out there who do use hexes and curses for personal vendettas. I don’t agree with them, I think they’re using their magic for crappy things that could and should be taken care of mundanely. I personally feel that hexing and cursing are big guns to be used for big problems–like this miscarriage of justice.
However, it’s not my place to do around telling them not to use their magic. Because it’s their choice to use it against what they see as injustice done against them–and if I ever did run across someone I felt was doing real harm for no particular reason other than because they could, well, then I would consider potentially binding them.
i don’t need to get into an argument with you. i didn’t tell anyone not to use their magic. perhaps i’m not communcating correctly. i asked how hexing improves one’s enlightenment. I see a ton of people cursing people every which way and the only thing they say about it is “i dont’ follow the Rede,” I wanted a more sufficient answer. thats it.
Heated debate and discussions are welcome here, as is a diversity of opinion. However, we ask that you keep these discussions civil and respectful. We will delete any comments that step outside the bounds of our comment policy. The link is above.
On a side note is the circle in the picture above just a chalk board or is it a standard magic board of some kind?
Personally, I think that the public cursing of Turner, et. al. is not only entirely justifiable under the conditions that full justice hasn’t been meted out legally and morally – which seems here to be the case. Further, as a symbolic action it can have a lot of power and accepting the premise that magic is both effective and has consequences solidifies this act within both anthropological precedent as well as social moral justice. Though some may question the ethics of this activity, I think that the overall morality is not only sound but completely merited.
I live by the threefold rule, And fear the return of sending out bad, So is it bad that I hope that all that is sent out to this POS, is more than threefold, And I support all who are willing to send out a good case of his dick will fall off disease or any other good deserving illness. Blessed be!
This magickal action is getting some media attention, thanks to Facebook and The Drudge Report, which gets huge numbers of visitors.
A word about the “Pyramid” — to keep silent, etc. — think that it comes out of the ceremonial magic tradition but was picked up by some Wiccans.
So far as I know, it was Eliphas Levi who first specified the “four powers of the Sphinx” as knowing, daring, willing and keeping silent. The second and third powers get interchanged in some formulations.
Thanks, Robert. I had been wondering.
Great way to try and achieve religious equality, fit into bad stereotypes! GENIUS! Why didn’t I think of that before, all we have to do is prove the opposition against us right, that we’re all evil old hags throwing curses around left right and centre because we feel we have that right to interfere in situations which we have no business in being in unless its support for the victim/s. Wonderful! In what world do Pagans as a whole fit into this situation? It is a horrible situation and the man should be punished extremely severely. However it should be by a jury of his peers in court which we should be campaigning to happen, not calling together Pagans to attack multiple people which will have no effect on the decision of the court. You do realise this action has set back equality for ALL Pagans, not just your little coven, ALL Pagans. Your actions are selfish and help NO ONE except yourselves by making you feel like righteous and power ‘witches’ because your fighting the patriarchy. These actions don’t move anything forward but rather move progression backwards on all fronts. Its ridiculous, I’m sorry if I seem a bad person but I’m supporting this women the way we should be, sending our best wishes and campaigning for a retrial; NOT taking a serious act lightly and to a point disrespecting the victim by making it about you fighting the patriarchy instead of her. I don’t care if you think you have ‘strong magick’, find a better time to boast then after this woman was sexually abused by this man, not by the judge or the father but by him and him alone. The judge did what he thought was best with the situation and everyone can make mistakes, the father wants to protect his child and nothing more. Those aren’t strong enough reason to damn someone to HUNDREDS of curses at once. That man deserves to be punished and punished SEVERELY. However, that doesn’t give you the right to dictate his punishment or take a stance as a vigilante which is what your doing, if this were physical you would be arrested for even trying to organise this. Witches don’t ‘do the work that needs to be done’, its not our place to decide, we are people who have no right to barge in on this situation and make it about us. Also, saying that Witches will stop rape culture through ‘hexing’ sounds ridiculous and will make the campaign look just as ridiculous. It saddens me that yet another generation of Pagans will suffer for the selfish actions of the few. That man deserves punishment, but NOT from YOU!
Nice respectability politics. Too bad they are, and always have been, not only useless but counterproductive. They are a way of convincing us to cooperate in our own oppression.
Of course they have the right to hex him.
Why though? Why do they have the right to interfere, its not their fight, their fight should be in support of the victim and not in reaction the the criminal. Religious right only stretches so far and again if this were physical then they would be arrested, so why is it any different spiritually? If these spells do work they will break many Human Rights such as none will be tortured. A life filled with unstoppable nightmares seems like torture to me. Where in Human Rights does it say ‘Pagans have the right to torture’ because that is what this ‘hexing’ is, torture. Something does need to be done, I support that, very much so. But it isn’t Witches, Pagans or Wiccans place (I’m using Pagan as an umbrella term here).
Because they have the right.
Your opinion only. Magick is not all about just healing victims. We are made up of both dark and light, and both can be used with intent. It is up to each individual whether they do or not.
Can’t we just bind him to keep him from doing this to other women?
This is a bad idea. Very bad idea. I want Brock to be punished too. And well, he will be a lifetime registered sex offender. That will cause him so many problems, so many problems. But to hex? Not a good idea. It can bounce back and cause problems for those casting the hex.
So why isn’t this being done for all those pedophiles, child abusers and animal abusers??? Those victims count too. I can say this now, no reason to hex this dude. His day is already coming, actually many days.
No one is stopping you from cursing all of those degenerates you mention. Have at it!
I have not as yet joined in this curse effort, but I have no problems with it nor with it’s broader association with my identity as a Pagan. This is a grotesque mockery not only of the victim, but of the very concept of justice and the rule of law itself. The greater part of humanity, in the past and even today, has lived under legal and social regimes which do not even make a pretense of equal justice. It is pure social Darwinism. The elite live by no real law. The vast majority live (or not) at the whim of the elite. Our country’s founding was based on a radical departure from that ugly norm. The idea that no one is without recourse to the law and no one is completely above it is at the core of our founding values. It is more fundamental in some ways than universal voting rights. You simply cannot sustain a democracy in a setting where the privileged can reliably live with impunity.
This ruling was a form of corruption, whether or not any money changed hands, and corruption is more toxic to a republic like ours than any external threat could ever be. This ruling is worthy of contempt, and it demands repudiation by every legal means available, Hexing is among those legal means. So far as the law is concerned, curse work is no more than wishing ill upon someone.
The ethics and metaphysical implications of course are viewed very differently among all of us. I do not identify as “left hand path”, and I do not undertake curse work (or any magick) lightly. I am Wiccan by training and to some extent still, practice. I believe the Threefold Law, taken literally, is bunk. For one thing, conservation of energy would seem to dictate a 1:1 ratio, and I believe action/consequence on the metaphysical level is a complex system and “you get back what you put out” is only predictable on a macro scale.
The concern I take with hexing, but also much other work, is that of “entrainment.” Spellwork involving others entangle you, binds you to those people and the sorts of energies that surround them and which you invoke and unleash. The results of any such working need not be disastrous for you, but the results vary by the strength of bond, how many you form and by the turns of fate you cannot always foresee. It is no accident that people who casually and constantly hex others are forever cycling in bad drama and failure and backstabbing themselves. This issue of entanglement does not demand inaction, but it suggests prudence and deliberation in all of your actions, magickal or mundane.
I do not believe Pagan paths, nor even those of Wicca, demand adherence to “white light” and “harm none.” The gods themselves reveal that there are times and places for rage and fury and retribution. The myths also caution us against the intemperate or exercise of these instincts. The judge, the rapist and the father are all richly deserving of the curse work involved. I fault no one for their participation or lack thereof. I would also suggest that mundane work is equally important. This hex action is valuable in that capacity alone. Make the professional and political lives of those involved unbearable. Never forget and never let the world forget what took place. Do what you can to make sure these people names have this event publicly defining them for the rest of their days.
I place no stock at all in the arguments which hold that focused efforts on this injustice somehow ignore or tacitly condone the many other injustices which bear resemblance. We cannot know every case or the facts surrounding it. The assertions that women get away with similar crimes “all the time” is just meaningless noise unless and until those making the allegation can produce read data and methodology.
We strongly recommend against using magick of any kind for retribution or vengeance. Retribution and vengeance must one day give way to compassion and healing. We would prefer that day to come sooner than later by having people give up those bad habits of their own volition asap.
We do not doubt that magick can bring harm to another person, but we will always regret any harm done to any being regardless of their faults; however, our greater regret is the harm magick may bring to the practitioner. The harm to those practicing magick for vengeance may be hidden now, so if you disagree then you can deny this all you like, but the harm you may cause yourself with vengeful magick will become apparent to you later, in this life or the next.
Healing begins with a warm heart in a safe place, not with anger, and certainly not with vengeance.
Anger, indignation, recrimination, and vengeance do more to harm your soul than they will ever do to harm those people with whom you are angry; they can never make the world a better place.
Please make peace, love, and compassion in your own hearts a greater priority.
Thank you,
love, Grigs…
Who are the we to whom you are referring?
We are a collective. Our official ‘diagnosis’ is MPD/DID (Multiple Personality Disorder/Dissociative Identity Disorder).
We are not exactly Pagan, nor Wiccan, nor anything else, but we are very sympathetic to people who embrace alternative spiritual paths. Our own path includes magick, love of nature, and a very strong desire to help heal this world from the ravages of human natures that have carelessly brought harm not only to this world but to themselves and to others of their kind.
As nearly as we can see it, human nature needs to redirect its energies into less violent, exploitative practices, whether this is in regard to power and privilege or habitat and nature.
To do this we think we must learn how to be more responsible and less violent. We think we must learn to be more peaceful, loving, and compassionate to all beings to succeed.
We use the words ‘we’ or ‘our’ instead of ‘I’ or ‘my’ because this most accurately reflects how we see ourselves. We are sorry if this makes you uncomfortable, but please understand that we were greatly discomforted by what seemed to be our virtual anonymity. Changing how we refer to ourselves has been something like a gay person coming out of the closet.
Our earlier remarks in this forum were more for the benefit of those persons we perceived as ready to harm themselves with magick, rather than for the persons they meant to hex. We believe the universe is perfectly balanced at all times, and that while we may not see all the balancing parts, neither do feel we need to.
We are saddened by any act of rape, whether it is sexual, or emotional, or whether it is against a culture or nature. However we do not believe we have to act out rage to support the victims of rape. While some anger is reasonable, perpetuating anger makes it a social disease that can harm more people than it will ever help. We would rather see that energy channeled into legal reforms wherever possible, rather than setting an example to the public that we should ignore the rules of law and practice vigilantism.
Vigilantism ordinarily makes you an outlaw and puts you at risk of losing your liberty or other punishments. If you you practice harmful magick you might escape the notice of the law of the land, but you can never escape the justice in your own heart. You may eventually understand matters very differently than you do now, and then you may have to face those times when you have harmed yourself or others needlessly, driven only by anger and an emptiness within you that once fed on your anger.
Or, if you were such an angry person, you might just go on being angry all your life, hurting yourself and others wantonly.
We hope for your sakes we are discussing someone else.
Enjoy!
Love, Grigs…
hehe hehe..
this is what happens when you are more than one person, another member of collective now wishes to add the following observation to our previous post:
In evolutionary terms, righteousness, indignation, and vengeance may have arisen as a means to overcome the natural inclinations of mammals not to harm members of their own species in order to enable people to harm other people who are a threat to their communities. So these anger, retribution, and violence may seem appropriate in context to those situations where preventing a person from repeatedly offending is necessary for the safety of the community.
However, there is a danger of becoming addicted to anger which leads to seeking socially ‘acceptable’ targets for vengeful action in order to feed the cycle of addiction that anger creates. Consequently, anger and its attendant thoughts and actions may more often become a liability both to the individual and to their community.
Most angry people in American cultures have been encouraged by example to become addicted to their own anger. This is a perilous addiction to encourage. You will never know when you have slipped past the point where your addiction becomes your master until it is too late and you have wrought harm upon yourself and those you love.
Peace out, please!
love, more of the Grigs…
Have none of you heard of the black dog? We need to take affirmative action. We need to right the balance.
ok i dont like to get into this stuff but being a pagan myself i feal the need to at least add my 2 cents.
1) im the grey hear im not on anyones side i think the dick gets whut he diservs and i also think this is a huge miss use of power …. the same thing i mind you you are all upset about (he gets away bc he has power or sway)
2)so looking at it like that if you hex a man for doing wrong and geting away with it will that a) make it better b) make you a better person … or even help?
3) all pagans have diferent “laws” we follow but is that realy whut you are relying on to make your case bc im prity sher in most if not all forms one of the basic rules is not to harm or not to abuse the power givin to you.
3) by taking any action you saying you have the right/power to act for a higher power ( or not i know some dont have one per say)
4)assholes like this are everywhere bc ppl now are used to taking whut thay want insted of working for it …. will your hex help or fix that?
5) The energy you use to bid harm to another cant be good in any way regardles of resoning otherwise you can “reson” your way out of anything …. like them saying he whus drunk so its not so bad (bull shit btw)
6) yes this is a bit one sided so ill stop that rant and go to another
7) ppl like this diserv whutever comes there way even if its a hex ( i wuld never do it myself but i can see why others wuld)
8) see that resoned my way out of it … get the point yet?
9) we are not to say if this is good or bad its not ower place. but justifying your actions based on something outside of yourself never ends well.
10) hex away if you feal it is right but ask yourself whut good it will realy do? culd you live with yourself if they died or suffered for the rest of there life? or even beter can you live with how this action … just a call to arms has made you as pagans look like? how long has it ben since the last time you culd proudly say your a pagan anywhere you go ever and not get bashed by someone? i for one suport doing something about assholes like this but something legal in the light of day not a spell you cast using energy that is harmful ( didnt want to say dark). i understand why you are mad and i understand the need to punish … but that dusnt justify the actions bc if it is ok to punish someone for there crime using power then you are no beter than the ppl using power to get out of punishment.
sr for the rant just my 2 cents
i wuld also like to add one thing if you are planing out using a hex to caus harm then so be it but if you are using it to see him rightfully tryed with no bias so that he gets a real punishment for this crime then why call it a hex insted of a call for justice? why make it into a fight when you culd do it peacfully? why caus more fear twards pagans by saying its a “call to arms” like your going to war? if that is whut you want be my gust go for it but war and fear only ever lead to one thing … death.
Hazelwood said, “Politely declining, and respectfully pointing out a differing view on the issue. If I am going to put precious energy into a working, it’s going to be to help change the culture that creates asses like these men and helps empower the women they damage. Hexing these idiots may ‘feel good’ but in the end it doesn’t help the victims or prevent this from happening again to someone else.” …. do your thing but will it realy help?
thank you Kintoofwicca,
you have shared these words fairly and wisely.
We are glad you are on neither side. It’s too easy to react instead of think, to allow your thoughts and actions to be polarized to one side or another instead of staying in balance, in the middle. We need more people like you in this world. Keep up your brave works!
Blessed be, always.
love Grigs…
It’s true, it doesn’t change anything or make her struggle easier. I respect peoples individual will to do what they choose though, even if it isn’t my thing. I know when I have inadvertently caused harm by not watching my thoughts fueled by anger I didn’t feel better about it, I didn’t feel good to watch my father suffer, even though he was an A1 asshole and may have deserved it. it doesn’t feel good and it doesn’t change the fact that she will be in therapy for many years as a result…but these women are not looking for approval or to be talked out of it.
See today there’s an article asking the public if the judge should lose his job. So nevermind all the women I was talking about that get NO jail time for pedophilia and molesting little boys…the judges in those cases should be fucking SHOT then if this judge loses his job. There’s no real equality the rule is, females can do whatever they want, and men have the book thrown at them.
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