Growth in Pagan Pride Movement Causes Struggle With Outreach

137 thoughts on “Growth in Pagan Pride Movement Causes Struggle With Outreach”

1. Our event in California has always put a blurb in the local paper, a press release, and radio PSAs which some have heard and come because of. And our event is in a park. This year we had protestors picketing the event. The other end of the park has AYSO soccer games. I like the fact that there is other business at our park for that reason. Before that our park location had less walk through traffic. Video of our protestors… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQ0JpPWzOg

   • Like I said, it’s been years since I was active with the NYC group but the only protestors during my time was a Satanic group. A group of one, I believe.

2. Media outlets do not seem to cover a Pagan Pride Day event unless there is some controversy. The Indianapolis, IN PPD has been going on since the Pagan Pride Project got started with Dagonet Dewr and Cecelyna Brightsword and a number of others. The last time we had any media coverage is a couple of years ago when the local Catholic sports teams thought they had reserved the park. It was all resolved cordially, thanks to Morgan Jones and others. But the news media found one angry parent of one of the Catholic teams and aired his rant, as well as Jones’ calm and thoughtful response. This year nothing came from the media even though there were around 2500 attendees. So, yes, PPD is fulfilling its goal of public awareness, but it happens when it happens.

3. There is a yearly one in Atlanta. I only heard about it once I joined a group. It feels very hush hush. It also has a tendency to fall near or on Gay Pride Day. As such, it gets overshadowed.

   • GBLT Pride days are supposed to be in June. A bisexual woman named Brenda Howard decided that it should be, and THAT is how the tradition was born. Usually it’s the week of the Stonewall Riot anniversary, where most of the rioters were actually B&T — **not** G&L.

     If Atlanta is holding it’s GBLT Pride Day(s) in August or Autumn, WHY?

     • Charlotte’s GLBT Pride day is also always held in August as long as I’ve been aware of it, although I’ve never attended.

       • And why? The tradition is for June, at the very least to commorate the Stonewall Riots, which was a MASSIVE tipping-point in North American GBLT rights. If a city is doing it any other time of the year, I think it’s necessary to know why.

         • Don’t know about those cities, but my college town did it in October because the weather was cooler and the students were back in town.

         • High temperatures at end of June *average* 87 degrees (often higher) with 89% humidity. Pride is in downtown where it is 5 degrees hotter.(heat island). It is smelly and sweaty, and anyone who is dressed to the nines really runs the risk of heat exhaustion especially if they already have compromised systems or are aged. The sun is straight up in the sky here, unlike it is up north. (our latitude is 34N) I have seen heat exhaustion happen even in April during Freaknik when I lived downtown. They say that “mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noon-day sun” – and there is a reason – it is simply crazy to do it. There are a lot of elaborate (that is, hot, and expensive) costumes that people dress in that can get ruined.

           I’m sure that someone more involved in that community could give you several more reasons. I, for one, support them though.

           I went to one in San Francisco in 2001, at summer solstice, and the weather was fine for it there, very enjoyable. Nothing like Atlanta.

           But the end of February would be great for PPD 😉

     • I haven’t read anything that suggested that Stone Wall rioters were not gay and lesbian. Many of the folks who may have called themselves “bisexuals” in those days had to live in arrangements where they were heterosexual in public but were homosexual in reality. So, it is hard to tell if the Stone Wall rioters were bisexual or just on the down-low.

       • Wikipedia is not a good nor accurate source. Try talking to, or at least reading first-hand accounts from people who were actually there.

         Also: See where i said “most”? Obviously there were a handful of G&L people amongst the rioters –but even Derek Jarman noted that the majority and “best fighters were the trannies” (actual quote from his published diaries, the word “tranny” was not widely considered a pejorative, at the time). But hey, this isn’t the first time you’ve either been intentionally obtuse or just plain simple.

         And gee, THANKS for contributing to bisexual erasure! And yes, Brend Howard was ABSOLUTELY bisexual: http://www.lgbthistorymonth.com/brenda-howard?tab=biography

     • People in the south often move their PPDs to later months because it’s just too damn hot and humid to do it during the summer. It’s *miserable.* Floridians, for example, would do well to move their PPDs to February, when there’s far lower chance of rain or hurricane (hey – June thru November is hurricane season for us), the mosquitoes aren’t out driving people nuts, it’s not nearly as hot and humid, and it’s generally far more pleasant especially if PPD is going to be an outdoor event (which it usually is).

       There’s a reason why the word “snowbird” exists.

       • Here in Indy, for the past three years, we’ve put on a festival in April. It is for promoting IPCOD (International Pagan Coming Out Day) and it kicks off the festival season here. So, if you want to have an event before the heat kicks in, that might be a good option.

     • Atlanta LGBTQ day used to be in June. But June is sweltering here and we all know it. They moved it to October, and I don’t blame them one bit. I voted to move it to later in the month (or even late January), but a lot of people really like it on the 4th. I think we would get a lot more people if there were not the conflict.

   • Veledran, I’m curious… Why do you have the feeling that it is hush hush? Are you not finding references to it? Is it because of Facebook’s weird “algorithm” and it doesn’t seem to get around? It’s not really hush hush – It has been out in the open for years and years, although it did move due to parking. But if a lot of people think like that, then maybe there is something we can do here.

     If it didn’t seem hush-hush, then what would that look like to you? You could be a great help on this. Thanks!

     • And when I say “it did move” I meant that it moved years ago, when the park we used to be in was being renovated.

4. Get booths at Sci-fi and anime conventions and get those information pamphlets out there! You can write off the booth spaces as a business expense! Lots of pagans spend major dollars at comic and sci-fi conventions and you can invite the different celebs to come to your event just ask them for their agent’s information!

5. For the Antelope Valley Pagan Pride Day we had a big advertising blitz this year. Local newspaper and news websites were contacted. I also contacted local radio stations but am not sure if they carried it. One popular website ran the news. And that is where the protestors mentioned below by Lisa probably heard about it. The event also had a fairly large presence on Facebook. From the previous website which shares all their stories on the social media site to a small advertising campaign of $20 that was seen by 4,000 people. We were also published in the local newspaper.

   Even with the protestors we had a good event with quite a few new faces mixed in with our yearly crowd.

6. Hmmm…I can only speak for NYC PPD so…

   We are in very public parks: Washington Square for our first and Battery Park every year thereafter. Beth and her “clicker” would often count thousands of attendees, not ALL pagan nor even there for us. Because of the venue, we educated many tourists just out to see the Statue of Liberty or locals walking in the park. I haven’t been part of the group since moving away but I can say that the rituals I conducted were meant to be participatory and enjoyable by the knowledgeable and understood by the newbies and non-pagans alike.

   I remember the first NYC PPD, three weeks after 9/11/01. We were surrounded by a Christian ministry that handed out water and granola bars to anyone — pagans, too. The minister of the group approached me and asked about our altar, the meanings of the symbols and what the ritual was for. It opened an interfaith discussion and after the ritual (which was really a expression of catharsis for us, being New Yorkers who had just been attacked as well as a ritual of thanks) he approached me and said he’d learned a lot about pagans and would I allow him to use some of my words and ideas in a sermon.

   I guess, we are just lucky. New York City (and Long Island as the Long Island Beltaine is now under the NYC PPP banner) is a lot more open-minded and less frightened to be “out” in public. If I had to try and start a PPD here in Alabama? I don’t know if I’d have the feeling of safety and community that we have in NY. Hell…I’m not even OUT here, not really.

   I guess what I’m saying is, this article only focused on the smaller events in places that don’t have the kind of venues, community or openness that the NYC area has and therefore they can’t quite do what Pagan Pride International wants them to do. But, at least, they’re trying.

   • I’ve attended three NYC PP Days, and I fully support Jackie’s descriptions and opinions. Jackie, I am touched by your story about the minister. Honor to you and to him, so may it be written.

7. Nashville Pagan Pride Day is changing it’s venue this year from First UU of Nashville to one of the Nashville Metro parks. Since the parks system require events with our anticipated attendance to have onsite security we had to cut our advertising budget drastically to have the money available for the security requirement. We are making use of the free event calendars provided by the local newspaper as well as sending out press releases. Our new location is right next to the park’s Wave Pool and Skatepark, so we will see how this changes our attendance.

8. I’m trying to think if I’ve ever attended a Pagan Pride Day; I think I have not. Partly that’s when they run up here–typically, it’s just about the time the first stack of essays from my English classes need to be graded. But also, they feel a bit of a non-event. The Pagan element is fairly light, as you’d expect from an event that’s open to all comers, held in public… and here in the very liberal part of the liberal state of Massachusetts, Paganism is just not that unfamiliar to outsiders.

   I do run into people who have misconceptions about Paganism, but they’re typically of the “everyone is basically Wiccan, right?” variety. I’m not sure Pagan Pride Days are well constructed to counter those deeper questions, once you’ve overcome the fear that comes from complete ignorance or exposure to anti-Pagan propaganda.

   We could probably use better outreach to new Pagans than we have at the moment. We’ve got Pagan student organizations at the local colleges that come and go, and a plethora of private or semi-private groups, plus one very visible large one in EarthSpirit. But no real Pagan town square, for groups to interconnect… Unless you count Pagan Pride. Again, the day doesn’t quite seem designed for that.

   Maybe I’m spoiled, but I don’t generally turn out for PPD. It just isn’t focused on anything I seem to need…

   • “everyone is basically Wiccan, right?”

     Ah, that “Wiccanate Privilege” again. The assumption that Wicca = Paganism = Wicca, or that’s how I understand it.

     :sigh:

     • Nope. I’d say Cat was quite clear about a general run of people being ignorant of the varieties in modern Paganism and modern Heathenism.

       • No, I think Cat was saying that she’d only be interested if the PPD had events that catered to her version of polytheism. That’s understandable.

         • “Cater to her version of polytheism”? Wiccanate privilege? She was talking about other people’s misconceptions, which misconceptions she does not seem to be fostering.
           Why so quick to judge, folks?

         • Sorry about the reaction, I just don’t like the term Wiccanate. They are 21st century Pagans, not Wiccanates. We Wiccans do have privilege by our sheer numbers. Our attempts at inclusivity are simply limited by what minority Pagans bring to our attention. Even then, it is not possible at a large Pagan gathering to serve the needs of all the devotional hard polytheists, especially those who find their authority in the bronze age of the past.

         • Shut up, dum-dum.

         • erm, Dum-Dums were a favorite lolly of mine as a child. They weren’t gobstoppers, but one was quiet while enjoying them. The wrappers were fun, too.

           The comment, to which I am replying by way of a slight tangent, was really uncouth and unnecessary.

         • And?

         • I do not like the term either… nor the assumptions that are at least partly behind the resentment of Wicca behind the term. Those assumptions, at least in my neck of the woods, seem to come from outsiders to Paganism, but I think the resentment of them is natural.

           I hope PPDs can come to take on a different shape, that will allow a more diverse reality to shine through. Perhaps something more like a fair, with many shrines for booths? In any case, with or without taking on the term “Wiccanate” (which seems pejorative to me, so I won’t use it) I think it makes sense to use a bit more creativity and imagination in approaching our outreach than we have yet.

           Of course, there needs to be a critical mass of non-Wiccan Pagans in a local area to contribute their ideas to things like PPDs if they’re to find form. Not something Wiccans can, or should, do more than hold open as a possibility. That, though, we need to do.

         • In any case, with or without taking on the term “Wiccanate” (which seems pejorative to me, so I won’t use it)…

           Except that it’s not. But hey, if you want to be willfully ignorant….

         • Cat, I have seen more shrines representing the diversity of Paganism including devotional polytheism at PSG, than I have at PPDs. It can be a lot of work, but I think it is worth the effort and blessing such shines bring. That would be a *great* thing to see more of at a Pagan Pride event 🙂

         • Exactly! I know it can be done–and beautifully. And that sort of thing tends to lead to the sort of cross-pollination among Pagan traditions that I know I, at least, find really nurturing… as well as having the potential to draw in Pagans not normally drawn to a PPD, AND to present a more accurate picture of our diversity for visitors.

           Hm. Come to think of it, a Quaker Pagan space (what would that be? A circle of chairs for silent waiting worship, I suppose, and maybe a stack of flyers?) would be fun to run.

           Maybe I ought to see about that–run a proposal past our local coordinator. Hmmmmm….

         • Cat’s not a polytheist, she’s a “Pagan Quaker”.

         • I am a polytheist, although not the same variety that you are, Ruadhan.

           Don’t feel obligated to speak for me, please. I have a blog that addresses the subject in detail for anyone who is curious, so I don’t need a spokesman.

           http://www.patheos.com/blogs/quakerpagan/

         • wutevz

         • You’re welcome.

         • lawlbuttz

         • lawlbutz

         • No, no, Franklin understood me. I was saying that the thing that most outsiders don’t yet understand about Pagans is how diverse a community we are… that we’re much more than Wicca or Wicca-like traditions.

           Sadly, I don’t think there’s really an easy way to communicate that at a Pagan Pride Day, especially if the centerpiece needs to be a fall equinox ritual–something that won’t be important to very many traditions.

         • most outsiders don’t yet understand about Pagans is how diverse a community we are… that we’re much more than Wicca or Wicca-like traditions.

           Sadly, I don’t think there’s really an easy way to communicate that at a Pagan Pride Day, especially if the centerpiece needs to be a fall equinox ritual–something that won’t be important to very many traditions.

           Which is a Wiccanate privilege under the “pagan & polytheist Big Tent”, if I’ve ever seen one. It also privileges the Northern Hemisphere, since the PPD literature says it needs to be a FALL Equinox ritual –cos everyone knows there are no Pagans in Australia, New Zealand, S. America, or Africa!

           Yes, as a Hellenist, it’s certainly easy to cobble together an Equinox ritual, even one that (one would imagine) few Wiccanates would object to, but the Hellenic calendars are largely civic with few seasonal holidays, but the assumption that “pagan rituals = MF WHEEL OF THE YEAR!”, no. That’s an example of Wiccanate privilege under this “Big Tent”.

         • Ruadhan, if you’re literally quoting from PPD lit about the requirement for a fall equinox ritual, you have laid bare a serious case of Wiccanate (sorry, Cat) privilege that is not only wrong but has kittens.I’m sure it arose innocently. I was in email contact with the PPP founders at the time, and there was nobody on the horizon calling themselves Polytheists in a way that meant “not Pagan.” I’m sure they went with the Wheel of the Year as the most inclusive schedule that would still be clearly Pagan. And that they didn’t anticipate PPD would become the only public face of Paganism in so many places.I guess the ball is in PPP’s court on this. Do they want to become inclusive of Polytheists or not? Do they understand what that question means? If not, are they willing to do the research to find out? I say this without intending to be snide or blameful; every organization needs to check from time to time if its goals are current.

         • The OP quotes the PPD/PPD lit as requiring a “Fall Equinox ritual” as being a necessary requirement to be an official PPD event. The message is clear: “PPD = Wiccanate Neopaganism Pride Day”

         • I tried to read the PPP bylaws at their website and they were illegible. I mean, worse than a bad capcha. I left them a question.

         • That’ll look nice on the banners.

       • That is an ignorance, though, that privileges Wiccans (typically the Pop/Ecclectic/IBAB variety), and those whose practises are based on Wicca. Ergo, it IS a Wiccanate privilege.

         • As a polytheist and initiated Gardnerian Wiccan, I would like it if eclectic Pagan rituals were NOT “Wicca-lite” or Wiccanate. They create massive misconceptions about what Wicca and other forms of initiatory witchcraft actually are.

         • In theory, I completely agree, but if memory serves me, since the 1970s and Zsuzsanna Budapest and/or the Frosts (I forget who did it first), there’s been a massive appropriation of the term “Wicca” as an all-purpose for withcraft and ecclectic neopaganism, and forty-plus years in, the linguistic drift seems headed in that direction.

           I think it’s just more pragmatic, at this moment in time, to clarify the difference between Trad Wicca and Pop Wicca and Wiccanate Neopaganism than to try and take the term “Wicca” back for the Trad Wicca initiatory paths.

         • Yes, I agree. However, in North America it is referred to as “British Traditional Wicca” which is a bit confusing if used in Britain itself, because we have all the “traditional witches” who claim to be older than Gardnerian. (Sorry but I have seen vanishingly few well-substantiated claims of that sort.)

         • RE: there’s been a massive appropriation of the term “Wicca” as an all-purpose for withcraft and ecclectic neopaganism

           yes, this is what I was endeavoring to highlight

           I’ve seen it on Facebook and Twitter and so many other places – the assumption that if one is pagan, it’s just Wicca with the numbers filed off and a fresh coat of paint applied. My husband is Asatru and some people have assumed he’s “Norse Wiccan.” Ugh.

       • That’s what I was getting at. I just phrased it differently than you did. Pressed for time so couldn’t really get into much detail.

     • It’s only privilege for Wiccans if you stand by idly and complain, rather than help the leaders understand the variety of Paganism in your community.

       • Not true. It is a privilege regardless.

         It will remain a privilege until there is either a demographic shift or a shift in understanding/education about Paganism.

         • EXACTLY!

           That’s like saying “het privilege” doesn’t exist and ALL the homos who want SSM passed in their State or country just gotta work MOAR HARDR at educating others –when the reality of the sitch is that there is already PLENTY of material out there for privileged people to educate themselves, if they were at all interested, and it is not at all hard to find George Takei on FB and Stephen Fry on Twitter and ask them for info lists.

           There is no shortage of polytheists and other sorts (sometimes erroneously) included under the “pagan umbrella” who have created FAQs (sometimes quite extensively) and written about their religions. This info is not at all hard to find, if one knows what one is looking for –but then on most major pagan websites, there is a clear bias in play toward Pop Wicca and Wiccanate Neopaganism, and some absurdly popular books will practically just make shit up about other religions not on the Wiccanate continuum (read the two pages in Goth Craft about Heathenry, next time you want to claw your eyes out at what you just read —I’m not even a Heathen, but I know enough *about* Heathenism to see that rather-lengthy blurb was total nonsense; I mean, I’m used to Llewellyn books failing their fact-check rolls, at this point, but “the system of magic in Heathenry is Asatru” is an actual quote from that book).

         • As a polytheist and initiated Gardnerian Wiccan, I would like it if eclectic Pagan rituals and popular Pagan websites were NOT “Wicca-lite” or Wiccanate. They create massive misconceptions about what Wicca and other forms of initiatory witchcraft actually are; they do us all a disservice.

           “Wiccanate privilege” is really NOT a good thing to have if you are an initiated Wiccan, because if anyone joins our covens, we have to get them to unlearn all the crap they learnt from pop-Wicca, Wicca-lite, etc.

         • That’s a denominational issue, unfortunately.

         • Sorry, how do you mean?

         • Wicca is a religious umbrella, these days, from Gardnerian, Alexandrian and Dianic Wiccans to the self initiated, coven-of-one types.

           It can be awkward, but what may be a misconception to one form of Wicca may well be perfectly valid to another.

         • Oh, so you mean that the different versions of Wicca are like different denominations? I suppose they are a bit.

         • I wouldn’t say “a bit”. I would say that they are different denominations. Every bit as much as the various forms of Christianity are different denominations. I say the same thing about Heathenry, as well.

           A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity. – from Wiki

           No stigma attached, just using the words as it seems to fit.

         • As a Heathen, one of the first things I learned is that the Llewellyn books are almost entirely terrible. I’m never going to expect any level of academia from a book called “Goth Craft”.

           Some things you just have to ignore.

           The problem with privilege is that there is no motivation to change. as a heterosexual guy, I have things pretty cushy. Why would I want to go outside my comfort zone when I have no direct benefit?

           Of course, I, personally can see the benefit of having *actual* equality, since without it, things tend to go in the favour of a select few, which causes imbalance and discord.

         • Pretty much –which is clearly why Pop Wiccans and Wiccanate Neopagans put the obligation for outreach onto polytheists and non-Wiccan pagans, cos they don’t see this as a problem that affects them (if only cos they don’t realise that talking about how “diverse” pagans are and how there are dozens or hundreds of “pagan religions” while holding pagan events where “everyone is basically Wiccan, right?” makes them look like hypocrites), so they see no incentive to change things.

           …which is kind of how privilege in the overculture works, too, only in this instance, since it *is* confined to the pagan and polytheist community, even those who understand how privilege works don’t want to see that this is *exactly* a community-specific privilege (which also does, indeed, affect the perceptions of the community by the overculture –as highlighted by Cat’s comment).

           The problem with placing the burden on those in minority and otherwise lacking visibility is that increasing their presence can only go so far without the need for those with privilege to actually meaningfully engage those minority groups and allow for their presence on their terms, not the majority’s.

         • Hi Ruadhán – as someone who tries to describe the diversity of Pagan religions when presenting to interfaith audiences, I was told by a polytheist that I would probably get the description wrong, so they would rather I didn’t try. So either you get the doing-my-best-but-possibly-slightly-wrong description, or none at all. You can’t win, you can only break even…

         • I knew not to expect much from the title alone, but was just illustrating that even fairly recent books (it’s only about 10 years old) still make some of t h e mossy absurd mistakes and fairly basic info on non – Wiccanate religions they choose to include under the “pagan umbrella”.

         • More and more I feel it is time to shut the umbrella down.

         • There are certainly many reasons I agree. I do have some affection for the pagan community, but I have affection for the African-American community, in part cos I grew up in a predominantly Black neighbourhood, and I’m pretty far from being Black, and no-one in that community would mistake me for being Black. I gotta admit, I *do* wish that more pagans would acknowledge that not all polytheists are pagan.

         • Way I see it, there are two basic definitions for “pagan”.

           “Little p” paganism is the term to describe a religion as non-Abrahamic. I find this highly insulting, as it sets an implicit benchmark for religion based on one specific branch of theology. The fact it is continuing to be in usage speaks volumes about how ignorant people are.

           “Big P” Paganism is the term to describe a highly disparate collection of religious systems (and the eclectic/syncretic milieu floating in between) whose only common denominator seems to be a desire to stick together for the sake of numbers.

         • “Big P” Paganism is the term to describe a highly disparate collection
           of religious systems (and the eclectic/syncretic milieu floating in
           between) whose only common denominator seems to be a desire to stick
           together for the sake of numbers.

           Just had to say I nearly snorted up ice cream from laughing with this one. 🙂

         • I think the problem is the use of the term “Paganism”, which implies a single ideology. That is why I refer to Pagan religions, the Pagan movement, etc.

         • Hinduism is a religion that embraces many theologies and thealogies, ideologies, divinities, etc. Similarly, some view Paganism as a “religion” that embraces many of these things, as well.

         • “Hinduism” is a largely Western term as a catch-all for the indigenous religions of India. “Hinduism”, as you describe it, is probably best-defined as multiple religions as opposed to a single one.

         • It’s the best description/definition I can think of.

         • Actually, you might be surprised. I don’t know if it’s a New England thing, but the roughly 30 years I’ve spent as a Pagan among Pagans have included contacts and friendships among practitioners of, as you say, a “highly disparate collection of religious systems.” Shared rituals, too, with some awkwardness–as you’d imagine–when we would forget to explain our assumptions and terminologies to one another. I’ve attended many different forms of Wiccan and Druidic ceremonies, as you’d expect, but also blots, Hellenic processions and offerings made in strict accordance with Homer, shamanic workings not modeled on Harner… And yes, plenty of Pagan syncretism, too. I’ve seen lots of different traditions, with lots of different theologies.

           I should probably give credit to Earthspirit, at this point. Though I’m not a member of that organization, I’m sure that their inclusivity and respect for real diversity has flavored not just my personal experience of Pagan life, but enough of the other Pagan groups in New England that it has helped to set a tone. Perhaps it is a tone that isn’t seen outside our region? I don’t travel much, so I couldn’t say.

           (I’ll also offer a hat tip to the Church of the Sacred Earth, of which I am a lifetime member, and to the many members from myriad traditions I have known and loved within it. Thank you all for helping me understand the meaning of community!)

           Face to face, within communities, we seem not only to pull it off in a way that apparently pleases our gods, but in a way that deepens our individual understandings of the Mysteries underlying our traditions. It has been wonderful.

           Over the Internet and among strangers who do not seem invested in creating community, I have seen things become belligerent and adversarial. But in the face to face world, there can be a real richness to Pagan intrafaith work.

           Which is why, I, for one, am going to stand under that big umbrella for life. I have learned to love it here.

         • See, you just described to me something quite comical. You have described a community of people of many religions. Then you try and call it intrafaith, rather than interfaith.

           I have had friends who are Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, Pagan, Druid, Atheist, Agnostic, Apatheist, and probably others as well.

           We respect our differences (if only enough to not bring them up, sometimes), but I wouldn’t label us all as one thing, regardless of how well we got on.

           I have no more interest in attending a Wiccan ritual than I do attending a Christian mass. Not my thing.

           I am also an old fashioned Heathen – if it hasn’t got blood, then it isn’t a Blōt. Which does put me at odds with other Heathens, at times.

           My point is not that people cannot be friends, it is that they can be friends without having to share umbrellas (we all have our own).

         • In no way would I press you to share my umbrella, Leoht. If you do not consider yourself to be Pagan, fine; I’m quite happy to agree with you.

           However, whether or not you find it comical, there are significant numbers of us who find that sharing the umbrella is useful, and even amid our diversity, we consider ourselves to be one religious community. Don’t worry–we won’t press you for your company. However, it might be respectful for you to contemplate the bare possibility that there are those who find meaning and depth in forms of community where you do not.

           I merely suggest the possibility.

         • That is intellectually dishonest, though.

           Unless, of course, you are all claiming to be multireligionist.

         • “Intellectually dishonest”?

           I’m honestly puzzled. I can’t tell whether you simply cannot imagine anyone could have experiences that could lead them to different conclusions than your own, or whether you are just that attached to your perspective in an online discussion.

           Likely it does not matter; there’s not much room for us to discuss anything once you’ve labeled my lived experience of community as “intellectually dishonest.” It’s too much like debating with an atheist, who labels any accounts of encounters with gods and spirits the same way.

         • You seem to be confused with what I am saying. I am not saying that your lived experience of community is intellectually dishonest, just that using “Pagan” (big P) as a religious descriptor is inaccurate at a basic level, in context to all of those religions.

           It is not a matter of community or emotionality, for me. Just one of semantics.

           I could be approaching it from completely the wrong perspective, of course. It could be a social demographic, rather than a religious one. In which case it would work fine, so long as it is labelled as such.

         • Aha. We are actually defining the word “religion” differently, I think, and the term “religious community.” To me, a group of individuals that regularly meet together in order to deepen their collective and individual spiritual experiences through planned, shared encounters with the sacred counts as “religious community.”

           And since, for me, a spiritual experience is about “emotionality” (among other things) a purely intellectual definition that sets aside those aspects, or considers them to be merely social because they do not fit a preconceived intellectual understanding of what religion is, or ought to be, is just not adequate.

           So–no basic disrespect for how you understand religion or religious community should be inferred on my part, and I’ll set aside my sense that you may have been disrespecting mine. We simply do not share the same definitions of some crucial terms.

           (I won’t press you to agree with mine; I’m sure your definitions work well for discussing your own experiences and those of most interest to you. It’s all good.)

         • I never read you as trying to be disrespectful, and if you read me as such, I obviously lack the communication skills to put across what I mean in a more respectful manner.

           I think our difference of understanding of the term “religion” comes from the ways that I have usually seen it used:

           A particular system of faith and worship Oxford Dictionaries

           A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence…The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith, belief system or sometimes set of duties; however, in the words of Émile Durkheim, religion differs from private belief in that it is “something eminently social”. Wikipedia

           I find redefinition of words that still have a common usage to be problematic. Words are how people communicate and, if there is no consensus on how a word should be defined, will lead to confusion and miscommunication.

           I guess Paganism could be described as a polyreligous community, in a sense.

         • The point is not that this community doesn’t exist —it very clearly does and many people are clearly very grateful that it does and get much good from that community— but to acknowledge that that community is comprised of many disparate religions while maintaining that it is “intrafaith” is a contradiction in terms and, at the very least, requires some serious cognative dissonance to insist that’s the way to describe it. That is the “intellectual dishonesty”, because the fact of the matter is, “intrafaith” would be the differences between, say, Lutherans and Methodists, or the difference between Felician order Sisters in the Catholic church, and Dominican order Sisters, whereas you’ve clearly described something that is “interfaith.”

         • But the “pagan = not Abrahamic” while imperfect, seems to be the best working definition out there

         • Until you get Christopaganism…

           It is also deeply offensive do describe a religion by its relationship to Abrahamic theology rather than by its own merits.

         • The problem with that definition (in addition to the fact that is implicitly excludes Christopaganism –which many people *do* practise) is that it’s a negative definition –this means it defines a thing by what it IS NOT, as opposed to a positive definition that defines what a thing IS.

           The problem with negative definitions is that they’re not actually very useful. One may give the negative definition of a cat as “not a dog”, but then one discovers that there are very many things that are not dogs, but they aren’t cats, either. Likewise, there are many religions and religious groupings that reject the term “pagan” as a pejorative term of the oppressor. Many Indigenous North and South Americans who practise their indigenous religions reject the term “pagan” because that’s the White Christian’s term that has been systematically used in an effort to eradicate their cultures, which includes their indigenous faiths. Many Hindus in India reject the term “pagan for pretty much the same reason –it is the word of the oppressor. Same goes for Japanese Shintos and Chinese Shenists, African (including diaspora) religions, Aboriginal Audtralian, and so on. Many modern people practicing polytheist religions of pre-Christian Europe have been rejecting the word “pagan” for decades because it is a word with a VERY loaded history with regards to those religions, that had been used in a fashion that was later mirrored with native Americand, Aboriginal Australians, and so on.

           It’s more than just imperfect, it has centuries of history as a pejorative of the oppressor.

           That said, many people, even those who acknowledge that loaded history, do still choose to self-identify with the word “pagan” in a similar manner to how many lesbians have “taken back” the word “dyke” and identify with it. Those who aren’t really aware of the word’s loaded history may still choose to self-identify with it for personal reasons. Basically, people who identify with it will give it whatever meaning, broad or very personal, that they may choose to.

         • RE: “the system of magic in Heathenry is Asatru”

           I don’t want to live on this planet any more 😛

         • And as an ex-Satanist (LaVey’s Satanism), the blub in there about Satanism was even more laughable. And to be fair, the author *totally* admits that book was pretty poorly researched and seems a tad embarrassed by it, now. Last I heard from him, he seemed interested in doing a revised second edition, since it’s still absurdly popular.

         • Isn’t that kind of what Cernowain was saying?

         • Not really how I read it.

       • OH MY NUMEROUS GODS!!!

         “Well, men only get paid more cos women don’t try hard enough for equal pay…”

         “Well, white people only seem provileged cos people of colours just sit back and whine about how hard they have it!”

         “The reason more places don’t allow for same-sex marriage isn’t cos hets are privileged, but cos gays just nance about and complain about not having rights…”

         “Maybe if you disabled people wouldn’t complain so much, people would treat you equally…?”

         “Maybe if trans people didn’t bitch about not having their rights and instead tried to educate all the dumbshit cissies….”

         If you really can’t see anything wrong with everything you said, count me SO GLAD that I’m not a pagan.

         • I understand that there is systemic oppression against people of color, women, LGBT individuals, and disabled people. What I am having a hard time understanding is the concept of Wiccan-style privilege. I really don’t mean to be obtuse. Are non-Wiccan-style Pagans suffering oppression at the hands of Wiccan-style practitioners? The mention of PPD having Fall Equinox rituals has been mentioned — can you (general audience, not specific “you”) describe what other examples indicate oppression?

           Is the timing of the PPD events necessarily oppressive? I found that the Pagan Pride events in the Southern Hemisphere, for example, seem to focus on animal rights and other issues. Northern Hemisphere PPDs focus on the harvest season to encourage attendees to bring canned goods. Would a different approach be better? For example, “To help our local community, we are also doing a canned food drive and some local groups will be offering various themed rituals”?

         • I like your different approach/focus. Works for me.

         • I’ve said many times over, in this thread, even, that *in the ‘pagan community’*, Pop Wicca and Wiccanate Neopaganism are absolutely privileged. As to what “non-Wiccans” suffer, there is a virtual invisibility in the mainstream (with maybe the occasional Sword & Sandal depiction of, say, Hellenic polytheism being an implicitly long-gone ancient history), and just about every major and local “inter-pagan” gathering, just about all rituals (especially anything that’s ostensibly intended for “everyone” to attend) are designed for the Pop Wicca format –which, contrary to common belief amongst the “pagan community”, not everyone is at all familiar with (I, myself, as a quick example, have NEVER been a Wiccan –I would be *so* lost as to what to do at such a ritual).

         • So, I guess this begs the questions 1) what is the cause of these various styles of Paganism not being as recognized in the mainstream 2) are Pagans who are not Wiccan/Wiccan-style being prevented from presenting rituals and classes at such festivals? I am not much of a festival goer so I do not know.

           Not sure why you put “non-Wiccan” in quotes in your reply.

         • I’d suggest a couple of answers to number 1.

           On the one hand, Wiccans don’t seem to have shied away from the spotlight. Indeed, Gerald Gardner has had a documentary dedicated to him made and shown by the British television company “Channel 4”.

           On the other, Wicca has large numbers (possibly due to the large amount of publicity it has garnered), whilst many other minority religions have yet to hit “critical mass” of numbers.

           In the 2011 UK census, 1,867 people identified as Heathen in England, out of a population of 53,012,456. That means only 1 in 28,394 people is Heathen in England, according to the census.

           If we presume an even spread across the country, that makes community building, and increased visibility difficult.

           Further, many shun the concept of evangelism, which makes increasing those numbers also problematic.

         • Then, if what non-Wiccan Pagans suffer is lack of visibility, and Wicca’s visibility has been largely due to self-promotion, then is that really a sign that Wiccans have been oppressing non-Wiccan Pagans? If it is not oppression, then is this really an issue of privilege or something else?

         • Privilege is not necessarily a matter of oppression. It is more likely a matter of ignorance.

           It only becomes oppression when the ignorance is pointed out in order to enact positive change and that change is resisted.

           Indeed, as others have pointed out, It does not even necessarily benefit Wiccans, which is why it is described as “Wiccanate” privilege, rather than “Wiccan” privilege.

       • Given that I am married to an Asatru man, this IS what we do as often as we can. However, even among other pagans, we often run into folks who are intellectually lazy and refuse to do the “homework” involved in understanding the differences between Wicca and other paths, like reconstructionist pagan paths. And because we have political views that shade towards the conservative (as opposed to the liberal) we’ve basically been bullied out of our local pagan community anyway, so since we’re exiled, there’s not much we can do any more.

         We can only hope that our lessons of years gone by sank in and people remember what we’ve said.

     • Yes, that would be it –but ask your average Wiccanate Neopagan, and they’ll insist such privilege doesn’t exist. I’ve even seen a few Hellenists claim it doesn’t exist –but I’m *pretty sure* they’re the Hellenists who were previously Wiccan, themselves.

   • Our event gives info booths for free.. So if a pagan student group or club wanted a table, they could have one. Some events have COG groups have tables, or ADF groves, and Troth Stewards , or meetup groups, for networking. While it is supposed to be about education, it’s also for networking. New people to the community ask questions so we always have info at our info and raffle tAble about paganism and Heathenry and Wicca and meet and greets, public ceremonies and so on. We gave out tons of meetup flyers.

     • My impression is that PPDs do vary. I think lack of student group involvement is more about the fact that such groups come and go, providing a strong presence at one point in time, but often fading away a few years later.

       I think it would be nice to rethink the central ritual option, which does seem to lend itself to “Wicca-lite” interpretations, and to make it harder for Pagans outside that category to feel represented–or to be represented, for that matter.

       I’m sure some local groups are figuring this out. Hopefully, there will be some knowledge sharing along those lines in years to come; a more diverse PPD will be a more interesting PPD, I suspect.

9. Our event in California has always put a blurb in the local paper, a press release, and radio PSAs which some have heard and come because of. And our event is in a park. This year for the first time in 12 years, we had protestors picketing the event. The other end of the park has AYSO soccer games. I like the fact that there is other business at our park for that reason. Before that our park location had less walk through traffic.

10. What is to indicate a struggle with outreach? I believe that just by being out there we are changing perceptions. Maybe it’s just my view from NYC. Our welcome tent is approached by curious people asking polite questions. We have a whole block of local groups there who speak to curious passers-by as well. There is a fun pamphlet we have on hand every year, written by the main org, titled “What are these people doing?” We run out of them almost every time. The vendors pay a small fee to sell their wares and that covers the cost of putting on the event, and they, and the workshops (which appeal to a range of levels from newcomer to advanced), bring out the local Pagans. Of course we cater to our own community- when we have a large Pagan presence, our community grows stronger, and represents, to the casual passer-by, and in our case, the thousands of tourists who come through, that we are a diverse, robust community.

11. I think we would be better off with a small street stall that appears regularly in the main streets of cities. The other day I stopped by a stall offered by the local humanist group. They have booked me to come and talk to them about Paganism at their evening meeting.

    The stall was staffed by three people – two women and a man – and had loads of leaflets and booklets about humanism. They were not shouty or pushy, just standing there quietly. I have seen Muslim information stalls that are attractively presented, and also quiet (unlike certain other religions).

    Obviously if we had a street stall, we would have to make it clear that we are not out to make converts, only provide information.

12. I can’t pick just one sub-thread for this, so I’ll perhaps a bit conceitedly make it a top-level comment.

    You (general) simply can’t offer a rational criticism of a local PPD if you haven’t been on the inside of organizing one. You risk second-guessing — and you all know how a guess can turn out — and if you leap to pejorative intentions you will simply be wrong except my random chance.

    The International PPD requirements are a rather short list. You must be in a public space, you must do a local charity collection, and you must do a ritual. Just about everything else is either vaguely or ambiguously stated or just not stated at all.

    I ask you, respectfully, with that much left up to local decisions why is it of any surprise that some given local event will not live up to your expectations? If you are witness to the organizers and their efforts, you can specify where they went wrong. Blanket assumptions are simply invalid.

    A response to the more respectfull critiques: the logistics of the event are daunting, especially to a first-time coordinator or just anyone who has not faced a public, high-traffic event. With that is the availability of local help, be it individual volunteers to help or organized participation to do the ritual or other promotional aspects like vendors. One comment that did get me riled: multiple shrines means multiple actual groups to come in and construct them, provide people to explain them, and take them down at the end of the day. How in every underworld deity’s name would you expect an organizing committee to do all that themselves? In fact, I remember an early PPD in Philly where we identified six distinct traditions represented by active groups in the area, and not one responded to our initial invitations to set up a space and offer to do one of the three rituals we wanted to schedule (opening, main, closing). Not knowing that, anyone who’d come to me with a “why didn’t you” criticism would have gotten several pieces of my mind.

    We did what we could, what we were confident we could do with the available resources. Philly PPD 2013 was an unqualified success on every count especially for it being the first time for the coordinator and his committee. 2014 was twice as large, more than twice as well-attended, and both events individually were more representative of Pagandom and Heathendom than all the previous events in Philly combined… and the only diversity of “shrines” they had was the Pennsylvania Deutsch themed main altar and a simple labyrinth that enthralled many people.

    Walk the 100 miles in the shoes of a PPD coordinator for the year it takes to pull off an event. I’m not being sarcastic with that. Walk that walk, and then come back with criticisms. You’ll get a very attentive audience because you’ll really know whereof you speak.

    • Be of good cheer, Franklin–no blanket criticism of PPDs was intended.

      Local events vary greatly–and it’s nice to know that your understanding of the groundrules differs from that of the author of the article, in that you do not see a requirement for a fall equinox ritual, but merely, “a ritual.” That might in itself be worth amending, as a many-shrines-and-offerings approach might work better for groups that are able to offer such, but at least it doesn’t privilege one form of Paganism over others to the same degree! Nice to know.

      You wrote, “One comment that did get me riled: multiple shrines means multiple actual groups to come in and construct them, provide people to explain them, and take them down at the end of the day. How in every underworld deity’s name would you expect an organizing committee to do all that themselves?”

      Notice, I did point out that that is not going to be viable in an area without a “critical mass” of people from non-Wiccan traditions to create and staff those shrines. I would think there would be a real risk of being inadvertently disrespectful, staffing a shrine to a deity or in a tradition that isn’t the PPD organizers’ own; this one has to depend on volunteers outside the organizing committee.

      And I hope you noticed that one result of this discussion is that I am holding myself responsible for approaching the local event organizers? If, that is, I’d like to see an area set aside that will reflect my own practices.

      I know there are those who are too busy arguing by analogy around other cultural flashpoints to see it, but I think most of us who have actually done on-the-ground Pagan organizing are well aware that the only way for diverse practices to be reflected is for diverse volunteers to show up. The organizing committee generally has enough on their hands with financing, publicity, parking arrangements and permits!

      As my Wiccan teacher used to say, “Reality wins.”

      • Let me second that, Franklin. This isn’t the first time I’ve been given a rumor of PPD rules that turned out not to be accurate.

      • Thank you very much for your reply, Cat. I need to keep a better separation of my sources of annoyance and distraction. Work is too much with me lately, as it were, and I tend to let those tensions bleed over to other things.

        My point, perhaps better phrased, is that people who feel excluded or at least hesitant to step forward need to do two things: be honest about their motivations and feelings; be honest (as in get first-hand information) about the motivations, feelings and intentions of the local organizing committee. I have much sympathy for wanting to avoid conflict and experiencing rejection. I can only ask that they try, and report the actual results instead of making assumptions out of the past that just might not be accurate in the present.

        I can only speak for myself and my region. Anyone in the Philadelphia area wishing to step forward but are hesitant to do so for any reason — any reason at all — are welcome to contact me first. Find me on Facebook or contact me at my public (spam trap) email madfedor (at) yahoo (dot) com, and I will be your introduction to and advocate with the PPD organizing committee. My heart and hand is open to you, carte blanche.

        • Can’t say fairer than that. *smile*

      • About the seasonal aspects of PPD in general…

        I suggest that we start with our foundational agrarian sources for our traditions. The linkage is there in the implied intentions from Int’l PP, that a food collection drive linked to the harvest season fits in very well with our sources and traditions. The equinox aspect is the choice of certain traditions, often and naturally becomes their primary focus for ritual. Antelope Valley was conducting a blot, which should be of great interest to everyone who might complain or otherwise be critical of those other choices. Those years we had three rituals, at least one of them was distinctly Heathen and conducted according to their choices. The only constraint was to keep to the spirit of the Int’l PP guidelines. For the events I coordinated or helped organize, that spirit was served by a few rituals that didn’t even remotely mention the season.

    • I find a current gripe of mine, within the heathens I move amongst, is the lack of outreach.

      People are fed up of being misunderstood, but feel not motivation to educate others and destroy misinformation.

      At some point, people have to step outside their comfort zone and stop hiding, if they want to see change.

      • Well, some heathens run into the problem that was kind of described in the article “The Pentagram and Hammer” some years back.

        Many eclectic pagans just don’t CARE what heathens and other reconstructionists have to say. They just say “we do whatever feels good and if you don’t like it, piss off.” When faced with this often enough, heathens start to think “why bother?”

        This is not directly related but does seem to have some bearing: many heathens have some rather conservative political views, and this often doesn’t mesh well with the mostly liberal political views of most (American, at least – not sure about other countries) eclectic pagans.

        So if they don’t want to listen, and they don’t share certain foundational values (like the importance of preserving tradition) then what’s the point of even trying? Is the pig going to sing?

        • Then, of course, there is the conflict of appropriation…

      • I think that, at some level, the time might have come for non-Wiccanate pagans (or perhaps non-Pagans) to stop seeking approval from the broader pagan community and start looking for recognition in the broader general community.If we started dealing with the outside world on our own terms, we might be surprised with the level of acceptance or interest we’d find from the world at large. While we’re bound to experience prejudice from some people regardless, I still believe it’s best for us to attempt to show the world our traditions as their own thing, completely independent from a greater “Pagan” community that has no interest in accommodating or understanding us.

        • I agree, completely.

    • Franklin, absolutely. I was PPD treasurer at our local Indy Pagan Pride event for three years and worship coordinator another, and I observed firsthand the efforts of the board there to be inclusive. Researching who is out there, then making phone calls and sending emails and the return is minimal.
      Admittedly, many of these groups are small and are unable to staff a booth for a whole day. Some just aren’t looking for seekers, so they don’t hold a booth. Some are introverts and just aren’t into community. But if there is to be inclusivity, it also takes efforts on the part of the minorities to step up. I can’t plan and lead a public ritual that is historically Hellenistic or lead a blot because that isn’t me and it would be inauthentic for me to try. I have to depend upon those in the community with those particular gifts.
      I still think the shrine idea is a good one, especially for devotional polytheists who want to get involved, but it seems they often need a reason beyond just being there to participate.

      • I like the shrine idea so much that I’m going to suggest to the local coordinator that they offer free space to any group that wants to bring one to next year’s event. To anyone that’s wondering, the local event costs money for rental fees, advertising and supplies, and they charge (almost all of them vendors) for “booth” space to help cover the expenses of the event. They keep that charge down by doing other things, like pre-event fund raisers and donated item auctions.

        • “I like the shrine idea so much that I’m going to suggest to the local
          coordinator that they offer free space to any group that wants to bring
          one to next year’s event.”

          *Cat does the happy dance*

          I hope something will come of the opening. I know events that I’ve attended that featured multiple shrines have been very warmly received. It’s one of my favorite ways to see us come together. (Maybe I just like all the pretty altars…)

    • My husband and I have been part of that kind of planning in the past, and we’ve found that, at least locally, we (and one other person who follows the Kemetic tradition) are “it” as far as non-Wiccan pagan diversity is concerned, and that meant that the big ritual to close out PPD was invariably a Wiccan liturgy, as it was the only thing everyone was familiar with. sigh

      • Knowing the truth in our area of what you describe was our original motivation for having three rituals during the day. It gave non-Wiccans up to two opportunities to express their pride (as it were).

    • You (general) simply can’t offer a rational criticism of a local PPD if you haven’t been on the inside of organizing one.

      The sad thing is, you seem dead serious about this, so asking you how much is wrong with this statement would be completely fruitless. Especially cos you also very clearly admit that you just stopped inviting non-Wiccan groups.

      • Well, he did invite them. Is it his fault they refused to respond?

        • And then he STOPPED inviting others. And I quote:

          Every year, the only tradition that routinely stepped forward, usually with several representatives, was Wicca. I can accept a criticism that I (or other coordinators) didn’t make enough of an effort to find others, but only after the point where we stopped inviting other groups whose only response to previous invitations was silence.

          He admits that he no longer invites other groups, and then says any criticism for the lack of presence of other religions besides Wicca are invalid. Tell me again how his shit smells like roses.

          • You have the following choices:

            You can trust at face value what I write and ask about what you consider to be missing details.

            You can post here once and for all that you have a default distrust of what other people write.

            You can demand that when I post I provide 500-word or more descriptions of every detail that might possibly be questioned or provide the most precision in semantics of what I’m thinking.

            In the meantime, I shall continue to point out when you are second-guessing to assumptions and putting words in my mouth. I promise, you’ll get the same respect you give to both directions on the curve.

          • In your community, you are a well-known believer in XYZ. Every year the PPD committee sends you an email, then calls you incessantly until you finally respond that you couldn’t care less about presenting at their event.

            I never personally held myself to that standard of outreach, that level of potential annoyance for the person I’m trying to include and promote. I also have a life and a day job, so PPD is not my full-time effort to shove inclusion into the private life of every representative of a religion I believe should participate.

            By the way, your font fails. You mistakenly stop the bold before the phrase that qualifies the statement in the context in which it was written.

            Also, it happened once or twice that a person finally got around to noticing our invitation from two years previous, contacted me and was immediately welcomed to the level of participation that person desired.

    • I find myself wondering why the non-Wiccan pagans did not respond. Perhaps with a recon group, they just rolled their eyes because they expected to be lumped in with all eclectics, who may have indicated to them in the past that they actually don’t have any respect for reconstructionist traditions at all, so why bother doing this? If they have been treated disrespectfully, they can’t be expected to be shown respect in return.

      • This, so hard.

      • The lack of response or feedback, and my lack of desire to “badger” them as Ruadhán seems to expect of me, means that I also can only speculate. I would have wanted to hear from them directly, including any of those possible responses you list.

13. I think I mentioned on Facebook that hubby and I have been to a couple of PPDs and we thought they resembled more flea markets than a Pride Day. Perhaps with PPDs, the focus should be less on things like rites and retail booths, and more on things like panels and forums. If nothing else, by not having a ritual, that short-circuits the “Wiccanate privilege” or tendency to have a Wiccan-format rite which isn’t really representative of the true diversity of pagan paths.

    • Well, there’s a problem with that. I would love to be shown other options, but attracting non-Pagans/Heathens just doesn’t happen without a “mundane” promotional draw. Rites and retail are just friendlier in aspect… and I don’t mind adding that the three-part panels and forums schedule we had this year was not very well attended as a proportion of the total traffic they counted and compared to my personal count of the number of Pagans and Heathens in attendance.

      It’s a juggling act on a high wire. Someone is going to fall off no matter how organizers try to balance it. 🙁

      There was a kick-ass presentation on the Isle of Man’s combined Celtic and Norse traditions. Our final traffic count for the day was over 1,000. Eight people (including myself) stayed for the entire presentation.

      • I would have enjoyed that presentation.

14. There’s a Pagan Pride Day in my home town, but I’ve never really had much desire to go. I’m not earth centered, I don’t call myself a witch, I don’t call quarters, drawn down the moon, or worship the Goddess. Hell, I don’t even fall into the one of the broader recon movements who might be in attendance. I wish that there were more Hellenics in my area, that we could organise festivals on our own terms, but alas such is life for now.

    • The way to get more Hellenics in your area is to create them, which you could do by performing Hellenic rituals and welcoming other people to attend them. They don’t have to be complicated, fancy rituals. And you have the advantage that you don’t have to rewrite the rituals you have been using to take out the secret parts.

      The great majority of people who are seeking or open to a pagan path aren’t thinking “I want to be a witch,” “I want to be Heathen,” ” I want to worship Egyptian deities.” Whatever they run across first, if it speaks to them, will be what they stick with.

      • Good to see other people approving of evangelism.

        • Evangelism is a loaded word. It carries an implication that people don’t know what’s good for them until you tell them. The fact is that many people want a religion without having much idea what it would look like or where to find it.

          Giving them a ritual to experience cuts to the chase. If they don’t like the rituals, chances are they won’t get much out of the religion. If they do like the rituals, they will be motivated to find out more about where the rituals came from.

          • I like to draw a distinction between evangelism and proselytism.

            Proselytism seems to be more coercive in nature – trying to convert people – whilst evangelism is much more about sharing one’s own religion – trying to educate people.

            I see nothing wrong in actively attempting to engage your local community in order to increase awareness and understanding. If it results in more people converting, all the better, but not the main focus.

    • Sounds like you’ve run into what some people call “Wiccanate privilege” but is not the best word to describe it. It’s basically the assumption that all pagans are some form of Wiccan or other.