GLENGORMLEY, NORTHERN IRELAND — It took a combination of patience, paperwork, and publicity, but Patrick Carberry has been approved by the Northern Ireland government as a Pagan priest. His is the first person to be so designated in this country and, by some reports, the first “since the time of Saint Patrick.” Carberry is the sovereign of the Order of the Golden River, which he founded in 2009. Now he will be able to perform weddings and otherwise function as a member of the clergy for that group.
Patrick Carberry [Courtesy Photo]
“Five months was a very unacceptable time, and religious discrimination,” Carberry told The Wild Hunt. “I followed up and was told they were taking legal advice, which was very unusual.”
But this was not the only unusual step which was being taken. Carberry said, “We had to prove how often we worshiped and when, I was even asked to whom I worshiped and how.” As he noted to the World reporter, “They wouldn’t ask a Muslim how they prayed.”
Once his story was on the front page of the Irish newspaper, the process didn’t seem as daunting. “After that, I got a very quick reply. The Order of the Golden River was made an official denomination called Golden River, Glengormley, which is the area in which we are based. The letter said ‘Mr Carberry has been registered as an Officiant for the above denomination and Church under the provisions of Article 11 of the Marriages (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 and is therefore authorised to solemnize marriages in Northern Ireland under this Order.’ ”
Hostility toward Pagan religions is strong in this largely Christian country, and Carberry’s order was originally quite secretive because of that atmosphere. “We were underground but at a meeting the Order members agreed to speak out about our faith and stand up for our beliefs,” he told the Belfast Media Group. The move toward a more public face and practice has led to other stumbling blocks, such as when Carberry was confronted last September, outside of a storefront outlet he was operating at the time.
I have been attacked and verbally assaulted and threaten[ed] in a shopping centre in Belfast last September. This was because I am a pagan, the headlines of a newspaper read [that I was] attacked because I’m a pagan priest. This man was shouting in my face, but I couldn’t go anywhere out of his way or get security, he was blocking my way calling me the devil, evil and vile. I could feel his saliva hitting my face, he then shouted from half way down the mall, ‘you’re going to get it,’ not what you like to hear in Belfast. Things didn’t stop there; I went though a few weeks of intimidation, [and] the police lost all the evidence CCTV footage. They couldn’t find the vehicle the man was driving, despite having the registration, make, and model. Nothing could be done.
Reports call Carberry a “full-time Pagan priest,” but he’s not exactly living high on the hog. “Income is difficult,” he admitted. “I work spiritually and I’m a Celtic Shaman working with healing, readings, past life regression, soul retrieval, [and] clearing evil sprits from homes. I put all my income no matter what the source into the Church, and draw only what I need to survive, I’m not in this for the money, just to get by. My love and trust in the Gods and Goddesses, the Spirit world and our ancestors always provide. When I’m stuck something always happens that gets me by.”
Carberry wants to be able to perform weddings at ancient sacred sites. His license permits him to wed throughout Northern Ireland, and he’s not planning on restricting his work only to those in his order, which currently has about 30 members. “We provide services to everyone who seeks our help, people don’t even have to be pagan, everyone is welcome,” he said. “We see people every day from all walks of life asking for help, so we have also set up a charity to provide help to people who cannot afford holistic treatments. The aim is to promote holistic, cultural and other types of spiritual healing and make it available to everyone.”
While his own tenacious desire to act in accordance with his will — as well as a well-timed front-page story — certainly made this achievement possible, Carberry doesn’t give himself the full credit. “I can only credit all this happening to the Gods and Goddesses and the Spirit World. Only they know what our true plan is, and they guide us towards that plan. They guide us in our lives if only we trust them, I trust them with my life every day. Having the battle Goddess the Morrigan, and the Lord of the Hunt, on my side, plus being a fighting Celt . . . how can you go wrong?”
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Pagan “Priests” have been able to legally marry people in the Republic of Ireland for quite some time.
Then why do you use the construction of “priests” in quotes as though they are just play-acting?
Because they’re the religious equivalent of LARPers.
That’s the charge we get all the time from Christian fundamentalists, but the fact that they go out of their way to say that at every turn tells me they take us much more seriously than they let on. I’ve seen probably near 100 Christian blogs and columns dedicated to this accusation and many hundreds of comments in the last 7 or 8 years. People don’t spend that kind of time and energy attacking things they truly don’t believe to have any depth or substance.
as far as I know paganism is not accepted as a valid religion on census forms in the republic
Legal recognition is a great move forward, but the pre-Christian religion of Ireland outlasted Patrick by a few centuries, so the claim of “first recognized since Patrick” is a load of ballyhoo. Not sure if that was Carberry or the Belfast media group, but it presents a fanciful version of history that simply is not true and wholly minimizes any notion of cultural continuity.
Regarding “fanciful versions of history:”
A “Celtic Shaman working with healing, readings, past life regression, soul retrieval, [and] clearing evil sprits from homes” is probably not super concerned with historical accuracy and is probably a-okay with fanciful versions of history.
No doubt.
But one aspect of our history that he may be painfully aware of: the arrival of “Saint” Patrick to our shores was our cultural equivalent of 9/11.
Utter nonsense.
That statement is offensive to New Yorkers. Not that you shouldn’t say it, because, it’s clear you mean it. But, you should consider your words before you choose them.
The Christianization of Ireland was almost entirely peaceful, and to the extent Irish lore has been preserved, it is largely due to Christianized Irish scribes. It has nothing in common with the mass murder that was 9/11.
Of course it has nothing in common with the mass murder that was 9/11. Presumably the phrase “cultural equivalent” went right over your head. If someone said a football team rode roughshod over their opponents you would berate them with a history of horse warfare?
If you could then demonstrate how the coming of Patrick or Christianity to Ireland was a cultural catastrophe?
It was a cultural catastrophe everywhere Christianity took hold because it, like the other Abrahamic monotheisms, has proved to be utterly unable and unwilling to tolerate the existence of any other system of religious belief. In the West at least, Christianity stands unique in this regard. Pre-Christian Pagan regimes were known to attack other religions from time to time for political, military or economic ends, but none of them sought to completely stamp out all other competitors for having “wrong beliefs.” The fact that there is no intact living tradition of pre-Christian religion dating back to Patrick’s time is a catastrophe.
It was not as simple as Patrick showing up one day and putting everyone up against a wall with a “convert or die” campaign, but neither was the change entirely voluntary or benign over the long run. Christianization in many countries had both soft and hard approaches. When they first arrived, missionaries used the happy soft sell. Plenty of people willingly converted because they found the pitch persuasive, and because the efforts were targeted at the classes which were ignored or abused by the Pagan overculture of the day. A great many of them didn’t convert to Christianity so much as adopting Christ into their pagan pantheon. They saw it as a nifty upgrade to their own deep traditions, and Church fathers were perfectly happy to let them believe that. For a while. Once in power, they worked hard to strangle all of the beliefs and practices which could not be easily incorporated into Christian mythology and doctrine.
The fact that it took centuries to fully accomplish speaks to the enormity of the task, not any inherent tolerance by Christian authorities. Those who didn’t get with the program on schedule found themselves increasingly marginalized and unable to practice or transmit their traditions. That was deliberate, and calculated and can only be called by what it really was: cultural genocide.
Thus simply wasn’t the case in Ireland, and the assertion that the conversion was anything but gradual and incorporated a great deal of absorbtion and adaptation of pre-Christian elements has no basis in any historic record of the period. The vast literary tradition and folk custom of the country is certainly a testimony to this reality. Unless you have compelling evidence to the contrary?
I’m not denying that it was gradual. It was done with generally less violence than many other places, in part because the Christians were very good at co-opting existing traditions and social orders. At the end of it all though, Christian authorities in Ireland were no more tolerant of other religions than anywhere else in the world. There would be no religious pluralism at all in Christian countries in the West but for the spread of Enlightenment ideas and secularization of modern states. The Catholic Church did not even recognize the concept of freedom of conscience until Vatican II. It was an utterly alien concept prior to that. Popes into the 19th Century explicitly rejected the idea of religious freedom and asserted that government power should be used to prop up their religion and suppress all others. This is not conspiracy. This is very well documented in centuries of Church archives, in documents signed in the popes and bishop’s own hand.
I’m not disagreeing, but I maintain that at least in the case of Ireland, calling it a cultural genocide does not bear out. A lot of this has to do with the social and political organization, and isn’t necessarily because Christianity was “softer”, but then again the existence of what has come to be known as “Celtic Christianity”, does allow for some distinction between the insular and Continental Christianity (to use a gross set of distinctions, Christianity has never been as monolithic as its supporters like to think. ) The gradual conversion speaks to an organic adoption, which hardly constitutes genocide.
Does Carberry claim to practice a tradition faithful in every detail to pre-Christian Irish religions? Unless he is misrepresenting himself in that respect, there is no point to the criticism. If absolute historicity is important to your own Pagan practice, and he doesn’t offer it, don’t circle with him. Historical accuracy is important to varying degrees within our movement. It is not a universal yardstick for validity for us because we are not reenactors. We are part of living traditions informed by our engagement with our deities, who we are today and the ideas and cultures that have shaped us in the many centuries since ancient and supposedly “pure” versions of Paganism faded.
Surely history matters when such grandiose claims as “first recognized Pagan priest since Patrick” are being bandied about. It doesn’t take a reconstruction to look at the history and point out inaccuracies.
I don’t see where Carbery has made that claim. It appears to be the stylistic interpretation of the media, and a general publication, not one with pretensions to historical scholarship. No, it’s not accurate to say that Patrick was the bright line between Pagan and Christian Ireland. On the other hand, when one paints in broad strokes in a short media story, it’s not hideously inaccurate to portray the pivot point as being somewhere in the “time of Patrick.” Patrick is a touchstone figure. He’s also a needless distraction from the fact that Carberry certainly appears to be the first Pagan priest recognized in modern times.
He’s quoted as saying as much in the Belfast media group article. So while it is hardly inconceivable that his quotes were given an editorial flourish, it is more likely the statement was a quote from the man himself.
But he is still the first Pagan priest to be recognized by the government. That much is still true, no matter how much you want to believe some form of the Pagan religions has continued. Most of of the Paganism we see today only goes back to the 1950s.
If you want fanciful history just talk with the people who would like to have you believe that their religion has been continuously practiced for hundreds, or even thousands, of years. No matter what they claim, there is no way to validate, or document that.
I think some are just upset at his fifteen minutes of fame. Meanwhile expect that a number of other Pagan groups will now probably start the process to get recognized, and it will be easier now that one has done it. After all there are legal and tax advantages to doing so.
Official recognition by the modern state is fine. Claiming that pre-Christian religion ended when Patrick touched down, as if it did not carry on for several centuries after his death, is simply wrong.
Ever been wrong about something and to known it. Consider that might be the case with him.
Is legal recognition for someone who so misrepresents history, and so misrepresents their role in the religion and culture, really a good thing? Religious tolerance, yes, that’s great. Letting folks of minority religions choose their own clergy, of course, that’s fabulous and to be celebrated. Promoting ahistorical Celtique Shamynnes who also look to be misappropriating from Native Americans? Uh, not so much.
Hopefully this legal precedent will also allow traditional people who are part of the living Gaelic cultures to marry and bury without interference. But those who already serve their communities in this way mostly do it fairly quietly, and are rather dissimilar to the publicity hounds that turn up in these sensationalistic pieces.
Kathryn where would modern day Pagans be todays if a couple publicity hounds had not existed, who certainly had their history wrong as they believed Margret Murrey was right, who may have lied about their own religious experiences and who stole any ideas that did to run away fast enough.
I speak of two of the male founders of Wicca Gerald Gardner and Alex Sanders. Without them most of us Pagans today would to even be Pagans. So give up you need to feel offended. For this new guy still has done us a service regardless of why he did it or if he is real or not.
Now if you feel the need to be offended again be my guest. I have been a Initiated priest of the Alexandrian tradition for thirty years. As a old geezer probably now closer to death than I guess, I really can’t waste my time and what energy left to give a damn about it. I am also a pretty hard person to get offended any more. I leave that up to the young people who have the excess energy to waste on it.
It was a cheerful little story. I enjoy cheerful little stories in a world full of mean, nasty, and gloomy stories. History has proven that any religion that becomes so serious that it cannot joke about itself, usually turns out to be dangerous to its own followers and everyone else. Goddess spare us Pagan fundamentalists. It is completely possible that each and every of us is doing it wrong. It is a good thing that the gods can laugh, and do not always zap us foolish human beings.
Cultural appropriation is hardly a laughing matter for those communities who suffer because of it.
Can you demonstrate to us conclusively that whatever you think of as “pure” Gaelic tradition took absolutely nothing from earlier cultures or contemporary cultures they interacted with in migration, war or commerce? Did they just pop into existence wholecloth like subatomic particles in a vacuum? Did the Iron Age chieftans and kings lose a lot of sleep over the sort of PC hand-wringing that seems to consume us any time we see cross-pollination or borrowing across cultures?
PC hand ringing my ass. Syncreticism and appropriation are wholly different things, having a far more equitable balance of power between the cultures in exchange . Also, this isn’t the iron age, modernity happened, I dare say that you’d be hard pressed to find a Gaelic Polytheist advocating for a return to cattle based economies and slavery.
Whose dis-empowered culture do you believe Carberry stealing from and do you have standing as a member of that culture to levy such a complaint? I’m no expert at all in Native American culture as a whole, but I’ve got a bit of Ojibwe ancestry and in my admittedly limited travels in reservation country, I never came across anyone named Gorm Sionnach or any derivation thereof. I don’t claim to speak for Native Americans myself. I’m just a garden variety white guy when all is said and done, and it’s a very tricky question as to who get to arbitrate when an entire people is offended by misappropriation. I don’t see where Carberry is trying to pass himself off as an authentic Native American shaman or anything of the like. Owning a skin drum isn’t exactly damning evidence.
Yes, modernity happened, and that’s a big part of my point. What makes your Gaelic Polytheism (if that’s what you follow) authentic and Carberry’s Gaelic Polytheism (assuming he even lays claim to that) bogus? Where is that bright line between evolution and change vs “contamination” and who gets to decide that? Assuming Carberry truly pegged his accomplishment to Patrick’s time as the hard transition to the Christianization of Ireland, I could see chewing him a new one if he was making this claim in a doctoral dissertation. As it stands, he’s just a guy who took on this one thing that nobody else was able or inclined to do, and all Pagan/Polytheists going forward will stand to benefit.
Read the fellows Web page, not hard to see where the appropriation is. No, I make no claims to any sort of membership to any first nations group or culture, but I do “run” with some folks who do, and as someone who has cause to seek a more just world, calling out appropriation when I encounter it is about all I can meaningfully do.
As to my v. Carberry’s GP; that was never my issue he makes no claim that I can find to it. Aside from speaking about “the old religion”, I’m not sure how much of what he practices has anything to do with any attempt at Gaelic polytheism. I have no idea what a “Traditional Celtic Shaman” is, but I haven’t met with anyone who would claim the label of “Gaelic Polytheist” and see any meaningful connection to that.
Can you demonstrate anything that this man is offering as a service as identifiably “Celtic”? I can’t. He’s got a mishmash of the usual New Age stuff and is trying to add weight to it by claiming a series of reincarnations back to the Paleolithic, including two “Native American shamans.” None of what he’s claiming or offering has anything to do with Celts, or the Irish (specifically). So why claim it? Why can’t he be honest?
Note you have no evidence that he has, you are just supposing. Shamanism was the first religion world wide regardless of the name it was given. You are working so hard to be to be offended. Why to wait still you read what he is doing before you make unproved claims. Your class to care about other cultures reminds be of the politicians saying I feel your pain to poor people. Not very likely. You even assume that we don’t care about other cultures. Oh that is so I am more Pagan than you are. Again false case of being offended,, as you have absolutely no idea what any of us think about it. So you are once again just false assuming. Neither you or I have any way to know what this man is thinking, how sincere he is, and how real his religion is to him. So you are attacking just to attack and get attention. I have see far too much of this silliness over the last 31 years and I am not impressed by trolls or witch wars. Until you can bad up your wild claims with actual facts, to hell with you.
Having visited the home page of Mr. Carberry, and having read the statements he himself has written (or had someone else write on his behalf, with his blessing one would assume), yes there is pretty clear evidence that he considers his practices a continuation or extension of first nations culture (as he was a first nations member 400 years ago. ) I’m not calling into question the man’s sincerity, I’m certain he is rather serious about what he does. I’m calling out problematic behaviour by someone who is holding himself up as a leader. So while I appreciate your fascile attempts at pegging me as an attention seeking troll, if you took the time to research the fellow, you would be better informed.
I did not catch that part of you saying that you read his web page. I was assuming we were talking about the article. In that I was wrong.
However I still mainly deal with my own religion and what I do. I have never found that telling others what they can do has any effect. Attack a practice and most of the time it becomes more entrenched, much the same with attacking a belief.
Meanwhile whether one likes his practice, or not, I don’t really think that he has harmed any other Pagans. Remember that Gerald and Alex often embarrassed their followers with their love of media exposure, but they still were responsible for the spread of Wicca and launching much of what came after.
I still think he has made it much easier for other Pagan groups to get legally recognized with all the attest legal and tax of that recognition. That is still worthwhile whether he or his practice is or not.
The term “cultural appropriation” is properly reserved for those who are picking over elements of an oppressed culture’s heritage. This man is himself a modern member of the culture you’re trying to protect from him, so the accusation of “cultural appropriation” does not make sense.
He is a member of a first nations community?
I don’t think he is, as far as I can tell from his website. He believes that he *was* in two of his previous lives, not currently.
But none of what he’s offering has anything to do with *his* culture or heritage. He’s offering services that have been utterly appropriated from other cultures, and he’s claiming past lives to try and legitimate his practice.
It’s not about bestowing some sort of fame or lifetime achievement award. Carberry stepped up and put himself out there and got the job done. If the more “authentic” or credentialed or otherwise more meritorious leaders of the Northern Irish traditions wanted the credit, they should have gotten out ahead of him and done the work. As the record stands, they did not, and Carberry did. He deserves recognition for that whatever else you may think of him.
The recognition of the first Pagan Priest in NI is, in my view, a massive step forward and, within a civilised society, individuals are free to embrace the creed of the Church of the Spaghetti Monster and demonstrate their faith by wearing a speckled ribbon on their foreheads, if they so see fit. Criticism against a “Celtic Shaman”, based upon dubious “historical accuracy”, can only be held by who is quite unaware of what Paganism is about – on this note, the vast majority of Modern Pagans fully acknowledge that there is no continuity between Old and Modern Paganism. Continuity through history is, seemingly, an issue for all religions, in spite of their insistence that “the word of God lasts forever” (either in these or in different terms) but it is not for Paganism, where a dynamic view of thier religious beliefs and the absence of sacred texts enables Modern Pagans to adapt to changing times, without falling into contradiction. Coming to ‘historical accuracy’, it might be interesting to take a look at the “Donatio Constantini”, just to mention one example of fanciful historical scam.
If the truth is something that matters, then it is worth seeking out and defending against falsehood, no matter how much that falsehood comforts us.
I am not sure what kind of truth we are looking at, here. Given the systematic manipulation, corruption and destruction of micro and macro history initially operated by the Romans (Ceasar is a blatant example of this) and subsequently by Christianity and Islam from the middle ages up to the present time, where ‘factual truth’ is delivered by mass-media, it is vanity to entertain any talks about any kind of truth, let alone, historical truth. What I see true, instead, is that, historic recollection changes throught time and is greatly influenced by politics. Still nowadays we hardly know anything about ancient Paganism, hence I do not see any major faults within Modern Paganism’s eclectic outlook. Flexible historical perspective and a clear acknowledgement of the limits of history are probably more likely options, to at least come close to any forms of truth.
Well if you start with the supposition that history is impossible, then continuing any discussion is wholly a waste of time. There is abundant evidence that the pre-Christian religion of Ireland survived centuries after Patrick, what else is there to say?
I am not disputing that pre-Christian religion survived centuries after Patrick – it did in Ireland and it did in the rest of the world. I find arguments like “History matters” (you called it ‘truth’) and “It doesn’t take a reconstruction to look at the history and point out inaccuracies” not realistic, given the many difficulties (some of which I have relaid above) that historical interpretation and reconstruction involve.
It’s a valid point, but it has little to do ultimately with the nut of the real story, which is that this man succeeded in winning legal recognition for a strain of religion which has not had official standing in Ireland for many centuries. We could spend weeks, or probably even an entire academic career, going back and forth about when, after Patrick, pre-Christian religion officially died out in Ireland (we could define that death a thousand different ways). Any way we slice it, Carberry’s achievement is remarkable in a country which, in all of its modern constructions, held Christianity, especially Catholicism, as an inseparable part of its identity in culture, politics and law.
Well this is Northern Ireland so slightly different dynamic; as other commentators have mentioned official recognition in the Republic of Ireland has been a reality for some time.
My issue is that this particular canard, Patrick as genocidal conquer, is endemic among the Pagan community, and while I do not recognize Carberry as a leader of that community, others may. To see those who seek out leadership roles maintaining and reinforcing such a problematic falsehood is disenheartening to day the least.
That’s true, but my sense is that the modern movement has come to a much more nuanced understanding of things like St. Patrick, the Burning Times, the overall modernity of our Pagan traditions etc. To be sure, we still have holdouts and plenty who don’t care, but overall, we’re just not nearly as invested in those two-dimensional historical stereotypes as we once were. We don’t stake our legitimacy so much to ancient persecution narratives. I don’t think missionaries like St. Patrick and his successors were entirely benign in their motives or methods, but neither is it the case that he was the guy who ruined a perfectly happy Pagan Ireland with a few year’s work. I tell people I don’t need to nurse some 10 or 15 century grudge against Christianity. The offer plenty of contemporary material for grievance!
Certainly it has gotten better, at least in the last few years, but the Patrick issue persists and it remains rather pervasive. I would say now even more so than the “burning times”. Just look at the FB comments to this story and the “snakes are back” spirit is there.
“legal recognition for a strain of religion which has not had official standing in Ireland for many centuries.”
Actually, this is not true. Carberry has only won legal recognition for himself and his small group of newagers. This is not a recognition of any Celtic cultural survival, or revival, or of the cultural workers who have preserved what traditions we have inherited. It’s new recognition of a wholly modern phenomenon; one that is largely based on concepts from outside Irish culture.
As for whether Gorm has a “right” to point out the cultural appropriation here, Gorm is not making the call himself or without context. He’s simply mentioning the consensus on this among traditional ceremonial people in the Indigenous-led interfaith communities that he and I both participate in.
In other words, anyone who doesn’t pass your own filter of what you consider to be Authentic Celtic Tradition cannot be identified as Pagan in any way or even being on the same end of the spectrum as pre-Christian belief systems. To the extent Carberry is inspired by the past, pegs his spirituality to the land of his ancestors and works with the same gods and goddesses they did, he is still the first practicing Pagan priest to hold official standing by the government of that land in a long, long time.
Whether what he does is true enough to the real traditions is a matter for his potential followers, and has no bearing on the question of legal recognition. Northern Ireland does not have the First Amendment as we do, but the general consensus among modern secular Western democracies is that governments should not put themselves in the position of arbitrating whose religion is “real enough.” If someone can articulate a belief system and practice which serves the role of a religion, they should have the same rights in law as any other group. That is the importance of Carberry’s work. He set a precedent. Other groups, including those you might consider to be more authentic, will have to file their own applications, but it will be much harder for the government to ignore or deny them.
As to the other point, if this really is an issue with Native American or other indigenous groups, let them come forward and address it. When white Europeans or other outsiders presume to appoint themselves guardians of indigenous peoples or “are offended for them”, that’s just as much a colonialist condescension as the act of appropriation. Maybe there is a big overarching grievance of cultural theft against Carberry, but it feels much more like a case of sour grapes by people who don’t like his brand of Pagan tradition and don’t like the fact that he managed to do what no one else apparently had bothered to undertake.
Congratulations to Mr Carberry. It’s also worth noting that it is in fact possible for Pagans to be licensed to conduct weddings in England as well. It requires, first, a registered place of worship with at least 20 households worshipping regularly, and second, someone who can undergo the training to become a Registrar of Marriages. The Glastonbury Goddess Temple has recently completed this process, with two of its priestesses qualifying as registrars, so it is now the first English Pagan group to be able to conduct legal marriages in modern times.
Amazing. So many of us would rather nit-pick this guy because we don’t like his theology rather than admire the hard work and sweat equity he has put in on behalf of Pagans in Ireland?
*shaking my head*
This, children, is why we can’t have nice things.
If you don’t address falsehood when it shows up, when do you do it? When it is expedient and convenient to do so, so long as it doesn’t detract from progress?