Update on Beebe: “That man’s God is not my God.”

114 thoughts on “Update on Beebe: “That man’s God is not my God.””

1. I hope by the end of today, the LLL/ACLU etc. have stepped in to help this family. They should *not* have to stand alone on 6/23 in front of the city council or in court on 7/9. How can you get arrested at a church, for crying out loud? I worry that this entire town is a version of the town in “Footloose”, except don’t really see any change in sight.

2. My self and Revkess just finished in depth interview with Bert at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/pagan-musings/2014/06/19/pwn-s4e3-trouble-in-beebe-persecution-of-the-seekers-temple

   • May I link this to my petition as well? Please and thank you!

3. What they are doing is using the law to bully someone into leaving a community. Of course, it’s clear-cut discrimination and harassment (both of which can and often do cross between criminal and civil legal proceedings). HOWEVER, we still live in this backwater, screwed-up country, where persecution based on your religious beliefs is contingent on the agreement that what you practice constitutes a religion! If you aren’t on the right side of the Judeo-Christian divide, you’re boned in America! Entire groups of people spin ridiculous conspiracy theories and label a man (yes, I’m talking about Barack Obama) a terrorist because of a middle name’s ethnic origin!!! Until mindsets change to the true concept of “live and let live”, this is going to be the status quo in small minded, small town America—-or anywhere else.

   • I have no issue with the POTUS middle name. I do however take issue with his actions of not supporting our men and women in uniform. I am a practicing pagan, and an army wife. He shames my country with his actions. It was HIS decision to label the Ft. Hood shooting workplace violence. When in truth it was an act of terrorism. Any person who screams out “Allah Akbar” while killing fellow countrymen is a terrorist. HIS decision to let an American ambassador be raped and tortured to death along with three other Americans that stepped in and tried to help. All he did was watch and then go to a fund raiser in Las Vegas. I am sorry you see this man as a victim, when there are real victims to take care of.
     I have in turn read the Koran, and the Christian bible from cover to cover. They both condemn a “witch” to death. If people don’t start working together, the pagan community is doomed. As a mil spouse who is an “out” pagan I have to keep my eyes open.

     • Ambassador Stevens wasn’t raped, Obama didn’t watch it happen, and the main perpetrator has been caught.

       • It was observed by drone surveillance. I beg to differ on the assault, as well as the main perp. It wasn’t because of a YouTube video either. I had friends in that area, and have spoke with them since the attack. They are now afraid to talk because of fear that they will be punished. You believe what the media has fed you, and I will believe what my friends, that were in the area, tell me.

         • This is getting way off topic. Except for one thing: this saying “I’m right, you’re wrong, the end,” is much the attitude of the Mayor, pastor, and others in Beebe are taking. I can easily imagine them replying to any pagan inquiries with this same wording. “You can believe what the media has fed you, but we are in the area and we are right.”

           Can we please return to the topic of what’s happening in Beebe, and take what happened in Benghazi to a more appropriate venue?

         • As you wish. I may not have brought the topic up, but I felt that it needed to be defended. May you have a blessed day.

         • It would be helpful — I say this as another one who dismissed your claim out of hand — if you qualified controversial statements in the initial post(s) like you just did here. Thank you for doing so.

         • No it was not observe with drone surveillance, and your personal accounts by “friends” who were conveniently in the area means as much as me saying my friends saw you kicking puppies over an overpass.

     • We are dealing with the legacy of centuries of propaganda coupled with violent persecution by the Catholic church and others. Those who do not think for themselves are regurgitating what they have been indoctrinated with since the birth of the printing press when the “Malleus Malleficarum” (guidebook for persecuting witches) became the first best seller of this epoch of human civilization.

       It is horrible that a veteran who served in the protection of freedom should be persecuted in this way. Flashing that light at night is a form of torture!

       • If he is a Veteran, than he can call the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American LEgion and they can help with lawyers. They like Catholic Charities have lawyers that help

   • I think we, like other minority groups, will have to take these issues to the supreme court somehow. This is totally against the Constitution and the freedom that is supposed to be so prized in the USA. They say we can write the Mayor, I plan on doing that and hope others do to. Perhaps knowing the whole country is watching will help . . .

4. Why is the mayor allowed to abuse his position of power so easily?

   • In the southern “bible belt” as long as the mayor acts like he is a proper “man of the Christian God” he can get away with damn near anything. The church has a lot of power and money.
     It’s pathetic to see small minds in positions of power.

   • No one stands up to the Mayor. If this family wins (which they won’t, with out major sport from out side this town! And money to get lawyers to sue the town) It would change everything in the town. It would be like someone woke the town form a deep sleep. Because this mayor has forced the town to be chained down by his ideas. He used money and infuless to keep people under his thumb,even when they don’t want too.

   • Because no one has stopped him. Welcome to tyranny of the majority.

5. In the other writeup of this, I gave links that they can ask for ProBono representation. Just because it’s a civil matter, doesn’t mean it’s not a violation of their rights. They will likely get a public defender when they plead, and one of the things the public defender will ask, is were you mirandized, and will use the lack of miranda warning to get it thrown out of court. They could ask the public defender about another Lawyer who would be willing to assist them with the town’s zoning bs

6. If Bertram Dahl was arrested on charges that can result in a year in jail, then I would think it would be required that he be provided a public defender. If he is being forced do defend himself on felony or gross misdemeanor charges, then the prosecutor should and probably will face consequences.

   The ACLU, the Lady Liberty League, and the Southern Poverty Law Center all need to get involved, and quickly. This appears to be a case not only of a zoning fight, familiar from Circle’s history and other cases, but also of blatant intimidation. We don’t want a precedent allowing this kind of low-rent totalitarianism to get victories. I lived in a town like this, in more than one, in fact. No doubt the locals feel threatened by “invasion” by outside forces, and want to protect their way of life. But in so doing, they create a horrible existence for everyone who holds different, even slightly different, values.

   • I just finished working 8.5 years in the system. In all of those years I’ve only seen ONE good public pretender. They are not interested in their clients, or winning.

     • Well, sure. They suck. But if Dahl isn’t Mirandized and isn’t given representation, that’s a “50s lawman” level violation of his civil rights, that will get the Mayor of Beebe and his friends smacked down hard. That’s the only point I’m trying to make. The authorities in Beebe seem a fairly clueless lot, though. Hardly above it.

     • And to clarify my own post, I would normally support efforts to lower the temperature and reassure the local people, who often feel sincerely threatened by the outside world. But not in this case. When people are engaged in active terrorization of other people, they need to be stopped.

       • The pagan community needs to come out of the woodwork and show that we are not here to “have a dark mass, butcher babies, and other Hollywood driven phobias.” I thank the great Goddess that I live in the four corners, and acceptance is here.

7. Emotional Violence and Culture War

   The word creedism isn’t in the dictionary and official definitions of emotional violence seem to turn a blind eye toward emotional violence at large.

   Emotional violence involves threats or other behaviors meant to intimidate, coerce, denigrate, discredit, dehumanize and perhaps even wrongly criminalize their targets (the Might-Makes-Right fallacy). To the perpetrators, power is something one has by denying others theirs along with their rights and peace of mind. It’s an ‘anything we think we can get away with’ deal on the perpetrators’ part. Their behavior is not of the same character that righting for equality is, of course. The Might-Makes-Right mentality, however, misleads perpetrators to believe they are above the law (or are the law) and that normal rules of ethics and behavior need not apply. At the same time they may feel morally superior and that they are the good guys. The flip side of bullying is often the victim mentality, meaning that those that bully often have more of a victim mentality than their victims might. Emotional violence may include, but is not limited to:

   * Humiliating, intimidating, overwhelming or wearing down the target, overtly or otherwise.
   * Controlling what the target can and cannot do in a way that’s not in line with equality.
   * Withholding information and/or process from the target.
   * Operating on a platform of purposeful ignorance (a.k.a. a bad faith decision).
   * Distancing or isolating the target from friends, family, neighbors and/or peers
   * Selectively denying the target access to resources and opportunities necessary to thrive.
   * Invalidating the target’s religious practices and beliefs just because they don’t like them and because of lust for the wrong type of (abusive) power.

   These same basic behaviors can be seen in domestic abuse situations and fester beneath society’s surface…or out in the open! It’s often so out in the open that few see it for what it is…unless they can become the victim. This has happened or is happening with slavery, sexism, racism, greed, creedism and even under the guise of drug war and zero tolerance policies.

   • This is also more commonly known as the “good old boys” club.

     • It can be done inside and out of that though.

     • Or better known as the “Good ole Christian Boys Club!”

   • I feel compelled to note that what you describe is not limited to the South. I got some of the runaround, withholding routines from a suburban Ohio city manager when I was president of a Unitarian Universalist congregation that was moving from downtown. (And I wasn’t even a Pagan yet!)

     • Yes, the problem is far more pervasive than what happens in the South. It’s paradigmatic throughout US society and beyond.

8. When you accept the truth that slavery is defined by denial of a person’s freedom of association and not by living in barns, picking cotton, or working for someone else … that being forced to associate with someone against your preference not to is what defines slavery, perhaps you’ll feel differently about this issue.

   I’m basing this anti-slavery argument on your summary and assuming it’s accurate, “High Priest Bertram Dahl said the city of Beebe welcomed him, his
   church, and store to relocate to the town with open arms – until they
   found out the church wasn’t a Christian church.”

   It’s unfortunate that the town is not free to say simply, “we don’t want to share our lives with you,” and is forced to use ‘zoning issues’ as an excuse simply to be who they are and prefer to stay. But that only attests to an already existing system of slavery all Americans have been under since at least the War of Northern Aggression to universalize slavery/ denial of the right to secede.

   – A friendly English onlooker.

   • Amendment 14, Section 1 of the Constitution says that you are wrong, sirrah.

     Quoted for you below:
     1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

     • Non-responsive.

       • Willfully ignorant.

   • George Orwell could have learned a thing or two from you.

     I want to be charitable, but the truth about your fantasy of free association is that there is nothing in US law that operates in a vacuum. Rights are balanced, never absolute, but there is one unwavering truth in US law: you cannot permit a thing to some and prohibit it to others on arbitrary criteria. We fought a civil war over it, the losers suffered egregiously by vengeful use of it, Catholics formed their own education system as their only available recourse against it, the list goes on and is constantly refreshed with new items as older ones are defeated.

     • Internally incoherent alternating with indecipherable.

       • Delusional.

   • Equal Protection Clause for the win.

   • “It’s unfortunate that the town is not free to say simply, “we don’t want to share our lives with you,”

     Actually, people in the town are free to say that. And people in the town are free to ask Dahl to transfer this church to Beebe – which is what pagans in the Beebe area did in the first place (if you missed that, it was the first sentence of the second paragraph of this article).

     Of course, now these pagans are probably pretty reluctant to stand up and say so, and who can blame them? They might be the next ones to be persecuted by others in the town, the next ones arrested for going to a place they were repeated invited to, the next ones to have their small children deprived of sleep by a sadistic pastor who apparently has never heard Jesus’s commandment, “Love thy neighbor.”

     The townsfolk who really don’t want pagans in their midst have another option, they could make the Dahls an offer to buy their property. At this point I imagine the Dahls might welcome an opportunity to leave; Bert Dahl has said that with all this nonsense going on he can’t afford a lawyer, much less a move, and I’m sure if he put the property up for sale right now he wouldn’t get offered much. That would also be the anti-aging township’s choice. They prefer to hound these pagans out of town when they have gentler choices if they really want them to go.

     But they would rather stand on their “We’re Godly and they worship the Devil” soapbox than actually do anything constructive. Their goal at this point is not merely to make the pagans go away. It’s to grind them into the dust and chalk up another “victory” for the God they claim is a God of love.

     I’ve talked to a lot of my Christian friends in the past couple of days about this (to include 1 who lives in Beebe), and none of them agree with this so-called Christian behavior.

     Read up more on this situation. Listen to the podcast that Zarcon listed in the second comment here. Your view might alter. Or it might not. But you might get a clearer picture, that this is not one man’s attempt to flip off a town full of good people who are quietly going about their daily lives.

     • (anti-pagan, not anti-aging… autocorrect booboo)

     • Actually if he is a Vet he does have options. VFA and American Legion help Veterans with lawyers. Also, some lawyers would take this, and then take their fee out of the settlement fee.

       • He is not a veteran. He simply claims to be.

         • How do you know this?

       • I’m a veteran and the VFA and American Legion does NOT help veterans obtain lawyers when they have the sort of problems Dahl makes for himself. When he was in a Yahoo group called Mystic Investigations, he bragged about hiking through virgin forests, where few others had gone, and all his other activities, when all the while he was whining to the VA that he was disabled and could barely walk!

         • Last Veteran I knew, who used it for a traffic court, said yes they did. Civil, Criminal, and many other. I’ll take his word over yours. That wasn’t the only lawyer links I gave him.

           Virgin forests are pretty easy to walk through, another name for virgin forests are old growth, less underbrush and lots of nice soft stuff to cushion your feet.

           Oh and if you knew ANY disabled people, you would know there are good days and bad days.

           Again more speculations and character assassination and still no proof. Come on, your a vet, you should know a challenge when issued.

   • Around here, friendly English, we consider it offensive to compare denial of the right to infringe on others’ rights (as discrimination based on religion does) with the unapologetic denial of basic human rights that is slavery.

     Though something tells me that if you are not actually an unfriendly American bigot cloaked pretending to be a friendly English onlooker, then you’re an unfriendly English bigot.

     Minimizing either the evils of slavery or of religious discrimination makes it certain you’re a troll.

     Welcome to the Wild Hunt, troll. Now please go away. Grown ups are talking.

9. I’m probably going to make some people angry with this, and I am not sticking up for the town nor denouncing what Dahl is trying to do, but looking at this on the facts level and practicality, there are some mistakes here.

   I understand all that is going on. Religion is the evil of all mankind for every religion feels it is the right path rather than seeing the bigger picture that every religion is in pursuit of that same higher enlightenment by that same presence (albeit in different form for each religion) much greater than that of “man”.

   I do have to say though that had the Dahl’s been forthright with the type of “church” they were meaning to open this could have all been avoided and they could have relocated to another site or stayed where they were and their members would have to make other accommodations to reach the past location of the temple. I would think that would be a practical consideration if they were established somewhere else and not being bothered by the locals, the local church or the local government.

   Quoting from the interview:

   Aug 2013 – They contact Beebe Mayor Mike Robertson about moving “a church”
   into one of the buildings on a prospective property. Mayor gives verbal
   approval.

   At this point, the Dahl’s should have acquired the paperwork to begin the process of establishing the church — why did the Dahl’s wait? This is pretty important.

   All business dealings should be recorded in writing. The Dahl’s not having financial means for legal representation to establish the biz could have gotten documents to do this online from various legal websites for a nominal fee. Would have been a better legal stance to scrape up the few bucks ( usually 25.00 – 100.00 ).

   BD:
   We did even better. We talked to the mayor. He was aware what we were
   looking for and what we were doing. He welcomed our church and even sold
   us three couches for the new home (he owns a furniture store). The
   problem is, he never bothered to read our card or go to our webpage
   until we bought the property. He now says if he had known what we were,
   he would not have helped us and would have stopped from moving here. –

   Dahl’s mistake — verbal business agreement.

   Error on the mayor’s part if he did not go to the website. What exactly does the business card print disclose? Did it have any wording eluding to the type of establishment?

   There is a lot of heresay going on here, that could sway either way in court.

   If this is true then the Dahl’s were not forthright with what type of church they wanted to establish. Is this a case of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell” ? So the mayor did not ask what type of church it was to be — this is the South and the assumption most would have on a practical level about a church is that it would be of a belief system other than Pagan.

   The mayor did not ask, Dahl did not disclose – error on both their parts. However, considering the financial aspect this would take on the Dahl’s in relocation of their family and purchasing a different home and the known fact that Pagans are the subject of discrimination and prejudice he should have disclosed the fact of they type of church and business establishment he wanted to start to get a feel on the reaction of the mayor and the community.

   In a town of 8,000, in the South or anywhere what are the chances of a huge Pagan population? or the willing acceptance of a Pagan group or establishment in a tight knit community.

   Now this has become an uproar of many opinions, a legal case where a man has put his family in financial jeopardy with potential fines and his possible imprisonment and again giving Pagans a bad name because when you look at this from outside the box, this all began with deceit.

   Sometimes stepping back and outside the box for a moment, putting away the hostile emotions of the situation — and there are a lot here — those emotions are right (freedom of religion, I’m all for it) and wrong ( judgment and condemning stooping to the level of those against freedom of religion) it’s a tie. The World has known warfare based on religious values for millennia.

   That is my opinion, I’m sure I’ll get brow beaten for it here but looking at the
   facts I don’t think I’m that far off.

   • Victim blaming.

     Also, it’s wrong to equate religions that seek equality in the spirit of egalitarian pluralism with those who interpret their religion as a a right to abuse others in order to be top dog (Might-Makes-Right).

     It’s truly better to learn/teach others to think and act well than to war over which religion is theologically wrong and crazy as opposed to which religion is theologically correct. That’s gets into identity clashes that overshadow questions of questionable behaviors and character.

   • Your initial assumption — that they should have used the likely reaction to them as a reason to not move there — is the part you have wrong here. If that were the guiding principal, just as a personal example, my parents would never have tried to come to the US and I’d have been born somewhere in Europe or South America.

     From Cara’s reporting: “Beebe area Pagans asked the Dahls to relocate from El Paso, Arkansas to Beebe as it was more centrally located. The Dalhs agreed and in early 2014 they made the move.”

     That is all anyone should need to know. The rest is local social dynamics, local politics, and the false sense of entitlement that people in a small town — or a neighborhood in a larger town or city — have the right to dictate who can live there. That false sense will never be “cured” unless people like the Dahls decide that they want to live there and make it stick in a rational way.

     Addendum: I forgot to address your opinion about deceit. That is entirely wrong for the simple reason that no one, anywhere, is required to disclose who and what they are. Indeed, were I in Dahl’s shoes and thinking about the possible consequences, I too might have declined to qualify what my church was. No one has a right to know that, any more than they have a right to bully me after the fact.

   • I’m not sure how you think everything could have been ‘avoided’ if the Dahl’s simply gave more information about their church. The town would’ve just started blocking them then rather than later. Nothing this town has done is legal or constitutional. They are discriminating against the Dahls based on religion. That’s religious persecution, and each and everyone involved should be in serious trouble for it.

     • I think the theory is that, had they been blocked earlier, then they would not be stuck with owning property in the bass-ackwards town they find themselves mired in.

       The theory is sound, but it is also overly simplistic.

   • Owl, Your theory requires agreement that the Dahls basically committed a “sin of omission” by not making it clearer that their church was a pagan one. What could be clearer than a business card – that was not only handed to the mayor but to several people in the town – which stated clearly “Pagan Church and Store”? Should the Dahls have put up a sign for all to see?

     They kind of did. It was painted on their van in pretty large letters. The van they drove all over town, parked at the mayor’s office, parked in the driveway of the property they looked at and eventually bought – which Bert Dahl had to point out to the “visiting” members of the Lighthouse Pentecostal Church.

     I suppose the Dahls could have been a bit clearer if they had spelled it out on their roof in lights or inserted the phrase “we are pagans” into every other sentence. But why should they have to? The words were on their business cards along with their website and on their van. Is that really hiding who they are?

     I’m really not trying to browbeat you. I am saying you might consider if you are being as willfully blind as some of these people in Beebe are.

10. In the article it is mentioned that “Mayor Robertson wrote a letter to Beebe Code and Zoning Officer Milton McCullar saying no conditional or special use permits should be given to Dahl”. Have you used FOIA to obtain a copy of that and other correspondence? Remember, according to most FOIA laws, even elected officials email is also subject to FOIA if there is any chance it was used to conduct public business. Indeed, you can invoke FOIA to force them to send you the forms for the application, then send them certified mail or some other way to prove they received them.

    Also, one technical point… A special permit is not the same as a use being approved for zoning. It typically means that a use can be allowed at the discretion of local government if certain conditions are met. I’ve seen these permits denied all the time. Also, typically mayors don’t set or approve zoning. A better thing to do would have been to go to City Administrator, the local zoning department first. (Of course hindsight is always 20/20). So it’s a real mistake to assume that because there is a special permit application that it is a “by right” use.

11. I have actually started a petition in hopes of
    helping from afar! Thank you so much for this article! I will link
    this updated article to the petition as well, as the more information people have, the
    more we spread the word! And to many of us, this isn’t necessarily a
    stand to push Paganism down any ones throat. It is exactly as Mr Dahl so
    elegantly stated, a time to stand up and make our presence known so we can help to create a better world for the next generation. This is a country based
    on Freedom for All. It should upheld as it was our forefathers original
    intention.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/freedom-to-worship-in-beebe-ak-please-sign-to-show-your-support-for-our-first-amendment-rights#

    • I’ve signed dozens of change.org online petitions, but never linked to them from The Wild Hunt. Thanks!

12. Every one no matter the religion should have a place of sanctuary. I think the people who keep denying this are oneminded, closed minded, idiots who r afraid.

13. This hits close to home as I can imagine something similar happening here, although I doubt it would get so far as the ACLU is extremely active in PA.
    That being said; freedom of religion and freedom to assemble to worship are rights in this country. There is absolutely no excuse for this other than bigotry and Christian intolerance. Frankly, I am surprised that civil rights organizations haven’t been contacted yet. Did they make mistakes? Sure. I’m sure I would too being faced with this level of discrimination. Regardless, in my opinion the Pagan community and civil rights organizations should be behind and supporting this family.

    • Do I have a ‘civil right’ to move into your house, Rebecca, or do civil rights begin with property rights?

      Are ‘civil rights’ properly about how free people within a society relate to one another peacefully and with a view to both freedom and co-operation; or are they about denying freedom of choice and enforcing co-operation (and what kind of co-operation is that? And is it in fact slavery? – see above).

      • No. But you do have the right to assemble to worship in a peaceful manner and whatever god (or lack of one) you please and even host a church in your home if that is your choice. The “town” doesn’t get to say “we will prevent you from worshipping”, just because they happen to worship differently. How would you approach this if it were a Jewish Synagogue being denied permits, or a Muslim mosque, or a Buddhist temple? Mob mentality is never a good thing.

        This “slavery” to which you are referring doesn’t really seem to make any sense here. Who is enslaved? Do you really believe that if the majority of a town dislikes someones beliefs, that they should be able to “drum them out of town”? This happened in Nazi Germany on a much larger scale, not so long ago; the Holocaust was the result of too many people staying silent and watching it happen.

      • Strawman and willful, deliberate sophistry. Moving to your *town* is not the same as moving into your *house*, and you bloody well know it. Looks to me like it’s YOU who advocate “denying freedom of choice”.

      • The Dahls didn’t move into anyone else’s house. They legally purchased their house and property in that town and have the same rights to use them as they wish in accordance with the Constitutional laws as all the other citizens in that town have with their own properties.

        If other R2 properties are being used in the way the Dahls intend to use their home, then the Dahls are entirely in the right to expect equal treatment under the law.

        Equality Under The Law is what this nation was founded on, as well as freedom of religion. If this can be done to the Dahls, then it can be done to anyone, and no one is safe.

        • I know other Christian Churches, have been in other peoples homes. Other Christians have had lawsuits on this, and I believe they have won, about the right to have church services out of the home. So there is case law.

      • Whose house did they move into? I must’ve missed that part.

        We have something here in the States called the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. This isn’t about neighbors not getting along. This is about a gov’t entity overstepping boundaries.

    • Being a public and activist Pagan in PA, Rebecca, I can assure you that in our corner of PA in and around Phildelphia, the ACLU would not be needed except in an extreme case that is very unlikley to develop. Over the years, we’ve held public rituals in urban playgrounds at very little expense beyond the city permit required, routinely “take over” public parks for rituals and events, and the worst we’ve seen is some local fundamentalist with a few croneys with bullhorns.

      I include myself in this caution: what you see locally is not what others see in other locations. It could be very much better, very much worse or about the same.

      I gently take issue with “[t]here is absolutely no excuse…”, because no one here (well, Nick might be an exception) is offering excuses. There are reasons motivating the bigoted behavior and intolerance. The one I focus on is fear out of ignorance. That’s why I’ve lead, supported or attended at least two Pagan Pride events every year since its inception.

      It truly is a double-edged issue. We rightly protect ourselves from fear-based violence. We must also realize that the only effective and even close to permanent “cure” to it is communication. Some, like the Dahls, face the violence with courage. Others stay in their broom closets. I offer no value judgment to either choice. I’ve been in both places.

      One personal observation: We are burdened with a sort of catch-22. We are too small in numbers to offer strength of numbers. We are too few and far between to become media “darlings” and garner wider-spread support. We have no objective justification to get in the face of ACLU, SPLC or other generalized groups — this being why we have Lady Liberty League, amongst others — because of our small numbers.

      We truly must act for ourselves, make the sacrifices, suffer the injuries. It is an irony of US law and politics that our foundational definition of power — We, The People — is lauded in the abstract and trampled on the ground.

      This will all take time, measured in generations. I’m old enough to have seen significant improvements, in keeping with the enormous scope of the changes we crave and the amount of time required for them. Those of you younger, less personally connected to that scope and timeframe, I honor you for your efforts and caution you that the pace is not going to be personally satisfying for most of you.

14. From the 6/17 Wildhunt article “He said there was no way we were having our church there, so we ask about just opening the store and keeping our group as a small in-house meeting of friends.  He admitted that he can not stop us from having friends over, but that he would be watching and he would break it up if we had too many people over (true to his word, police sit and watch our house often). ”
    What constitutes ‘too many people’? Are they allowed to park cars on their lawn?
    With graduation parties, 4th of July celebrations, and family gatherings the ‘too many people’ could be hard to prove. They should get a copy of the ordinance for their records.
    As for the lighthouse light, if it comes back to their windows, use mirrors to reflect it back at them.
    Maybe have the meeting participants bring food so they can call it potluck parties. And maybe even call it a book club. At least for a while. And when they do have meetings, keep the yard heavily lit. And have a lookout and camera at hand if police show up. Open the door with a couple cameras rolling
    good luck to Bert, his family and the local pagans.

    • I like that mirror idea.
      They’d be darkening their own windows so their children and they can sleep in their own home.

      It occurs to me that their house must be the safest in town with all that constant police surveillance! Must be nice to have a town so quiet that the cops can waste their time monitoring one home. I am reminded that Pittsburgh PD was (might still be) under FBI supervision due to discriminatory practices. Maybe this needs to be documented and sent along to the FBI too?

15. Christians being Christians in this story.

    • So very true.

      This is almost non news as it is exactly the kind of mentality the rest of the world would expect from small town USA.

16. That’s what I call Christian Tyranny!

    “You have freedom of religion, as long as it’s OUR religion.”

    • Well, according to (conservative) Christian dogma, Christianity is the only religion…

17. Hah, how quick those wretched Christians, who spend every breath championing “religious freedom”, toss the very concept to the curb. Sue that city into bankruptcy.

18. We can support them by going to their website and making purchases.
    They can video document that too.

    They can video document every time they go to get permits.
    They can take cold drinks to the police stationed outside their home.
    They can put up a flagpole – be sure to see if you need a permit for that- and fly the flag and a MIA/POW flag too.
    Are on line mail order businesses required to have permits?
    Just some scattered thoughts in the early hours for me.

19. So what happened to the constitution and separation of church and state? This is horrible. This man has the right idea… we need to stand up for our children. I only wish I lived closer.

20. This will be worth it in the end.

21. Wow. That major isn’t even trying to cover up his actions in something other than religious discrimination.

22. This isn’t right! I am trying to get a group of people to go with me from FL so they don’t stand alone.

23. Hold on a sec, people. I know this man personally and was with him when he first started his training. Bert has a persecution complex, is prone to exaggeration and untruths and was removed from our group due to his behavior. Please take what he says with a huge grain of salt. I’ve done some research of my own and it wasn’t just asking the church to stop the pamphlets, it was screaming at them during their own service. If he wanted respect for his faith, he should have shown some. Plus, as I understand it, he wants a church, a home and a store in one area. Conflict of energies much? Furthermore, people really need to look at his background before leaping in on the bandwagon.

    • I googled him and came up with nada, so what background would you like us to look at? Who are you and why should we take you at your word? While I’m at it, do you have ANY supportive evidence of what you are saying?

      Also, it is not uncommon to run a business, plus a worship out of ones home. You are allowed to do so.

      • Just because nothing came up on a Google search doesn’t mean there isn’t any information “out there.” For instance, court information doesn’t come up in a simple Google search, one has to actually go to the court site itself. Some of the people whom he sent abusive emails still have those emails and have copied and pasted them on various websites.

        • How nice. That doesn’t prove a thing. Google me, or my email and I’m sure you will find various people who don’t like my politics, or Pagans I’ve ticked off kvetchign about me.

          I’m sure whoever you are debating about pitbulls with, many not like you either. Doesn’t mean jack or taco about your character. However doing what you are doing here is character assignation and not at all cool.

          Throw down the proof.

          • What is up with you? Give it a rest. You’re manic and Dahl isn’t worth it!

          • So, you don’t have proof. You got nothing.

            I type fast, it doesn’t make me manic. Try googling manic before using terms you don’t know.

          • Manic: “having or relating to a mental illness that causes someone to become very excited or emotional.”

            You can believe what you like. I have named one of the sites at least twice, and you keep asking. Tell us, Bianca, are you the bi-female who answered Dahl’s ad when he was advertising for a woman to be a “partner” to him and his then-girlfriend?

          • I am Bi yes. I am Kinky yes. That doesn’t make one icky on a Pagan place, because many of us are sex positive. Have I answered any of his ads(yet more speculations without proof) for a polyamorous or open relationship, no.

            It helps if you actually use psychological websites. http://psychcentral.com/lib/what-is-a-manic-episode/000629

            I am not showing any manic episodes.

            I’m a bit more computer savvy than Dahl, my web browser lets me know when I misspell words.

          • So you are the kook who answered his ad. That’s all I need to know about you.

          • forgot to read the NO part did ya?

            Come on big boy, whats your creds?

          • I read it, I just don’t believe it. You’re manic over this guy, which means there’s more going on than you’re admitting.

            Calm down, take a deep breath and try to relax. You’re going to give yourself a stroke.

          • In order to give myself a stroke, my cholesterol would have to be higher. Stroke is caused by blocked veins or arteries in the brain. Yawn.

            Yawn, I ask again, what are you creds supposed Vet.

            Oh and there are a lot of Bi Pagan kinky women, that doesn’t mean we all answered Berts supposed ad. Where was this ad again?

          • Stroke can also be caused by a burst blood vessel, genius! The way you’re acting, your diastolic pressure must be close to 200!

            You’re acting like a rabid dog. You should pick a more appropriate name — “Cujo” comes to mind!

          • Right, so not a vet, but like to play one on the Internet.

            ARteries are a blood vessel, so are veins. They are blocked by a substance, that is because of high cholesterol, the high blood pressure is due to the blocked vessels

          • I never said I wasn’t a vet. I don’t have to prove anything to a mad dog like you.

            A burst blood vessel isn’t “blocked,” genius! Are you familiar with the term “aneurysm”? I didn’t think so. It’s a bulging, weak area in the wall of an artery that supplies blood to the brain and when it bursts, it causes a stroke. Many young men and women die of stroke and they don’t have high cholesterol, genius!

            Now try to calm down there, Cujo. Be a good doggie and go lie down in the corner and stop dripping foam all over the place!

          • You aren’t man enough to make me.

            I said you aren’t a vet.
            http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/156993.php
            an aneurysm isn’t a stroke
            What causes a stroke?

            There are two major kinds of stroke.

            The first, called an ischemic stroke, is caused by a blood clot that blocks or plugs a blood vessel or artery in the brain. About 80 percent of all strokes are ischemic. The second, known as a hemorrhagic stroke, is caused by a blood vessel in the brain that breaks and bleeds into the brain. About 20 percent of strokes are hemorrhagic.http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/stroke/knowstroke.htm

          • I don’t care what you “said.” There’s no way on earth I could “prove” to you I’m a veteran because no matter what I said, you would accuse me of something else.

            You’re foaming at the mouth over this Dahl jerk and from what I’ve heard, he already has a woman and a couple kids. What’s the matter, did he dump you and you think by acting like a mad dog, he’ll take you back?

          • scan your dd214

          • I could easily scan someone else’s DD214 and claim it was mine, which is exactly what you would say if I were dumb enough to scan my DD214 — which contains personal information — and post it on the internet!

            Cujo, you’re foaming at the mouth. Try to calm down before you have another of those rabid fits.

          • Apparently you can’t manage to use the paint editor to block out the personal information.
            Failing that, What did you do? What no pictures of you in uniform?

            Typical internet tough guy warrior, when told to put up, you give yet more hot air.

          • Look, Cujo, I’m sorry Bert Dahl gave you the boot, but attacking me isn’t going to make him take you back. Get over it!

          • That’s a pretty weak attack. Yawn. Go back and get more creative with your trolling. Sorry that would be insulting to trolls.

    • Btw,I found the video of him talking to the church from Berts facebook page. While he needs to, and I will not hesitate to tell him to stfu, until he talks to a lawyer, there is nothing that I can see that he has done, that I wouldn’t have after being subjected to the same level of bullcrap.

      I am one to say yes, respect others faiths if you want the same respect. However that respect goes away the moment my home gets a lighthouse beacon light shone through it. That goes away the moment I get harassed. You get the respect you earn.

      http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel+and+Slander

      You offer no substance to your claims(he claims he’s a vet but isn’t), he’s got a persecution complex etc etc etc. But you offer no supporting evidence, do you have any?

      • I did not see where anyone said he wasn’t a “vet.” What I have read on other sites is that he is pretending to be disabled as a means of scamming the Veterans Administration. If you will notice, in the video where he was showing everyone his property, etc., he was hobbling around with a cane, but he was walking just fine when he stalked out of the church after verbally abusing everyone during a church service so, obviously, he’s “disabled” when it is advantageous, but is able to ambulate just fine when he’s harassing people. In addition to going to the church and causing a stink, he also left an abusive and threatening message for the pastor of the church. On one site, someone copied one of his posts in which he claims to communicate with demons and brags about how when he tells this garbage to the Veterans Administration doctors, they “blame the army” and prescribe any kind of drugs he wants.

        • He is disabled. Being disabled doesn’t mean you always have a cane. It doesn’t mean you can’t walk, or have good quality days or bad days. I suggest before showing your behind any more and insulting some very good friends of mine, you do some good hard research or be quiet.

          Speculations are not proof. They are speculations. Unless you have access to his medical records, then I suggest you be quiet.

          I will truck no foolishness and I will be very belligerent if you continue this line of crap. You are showing a high level of ignorance, and are insulting people I care for and it will not be tolerated.

          SO far, you don’t like him. That is a personal problem. I suggest you keep that to yourself, it adds nothing but trolling and nothing to the discussion.

          Not only did I listen to the video I also listened to the voicemail, which isn’t at all threatening or harassing, it was terse.

          I bet you are one of those affiliated with the Pentecostal church, and are trying to save face. Or you ran into him debating on some forums and want to ruin his name. Not cool.

          Pony up the proof.

          • We have just as much right to voice our opinions regarding this scam artist as he does to voice his opinions about the church across the street, the mayor of Beebe, or whatever. People “don’t like him” for a reason!

          • No you really don’t. 1st amendment doesn’t apply on the Wild Hunt, as it is a private blog. Read the terms of service.

          • Then the “Wild Hunt” can delete my posts!

          • The message was threatening because Dahl told the pastor he had been in the Army, implying he was going to use a gun or some other method of attack.

            I have named one of the sites more than once. Why didn’t you tell BERT to “pony up the proof” when he claimed the pagan community invited him to move his pagan church to Beebe?

          • That is the danger of assumption isn’t it? That wasn’t a threatening message. Keep trying. Keep trying to make Dahl the unlikeable bad boy, while you are busy posting that people are having sex with their dogs, and unlike you, I already linked the you tube comments, see below.

          • Differences of opinion are what makes poor land sell and ugly women marry.

            What does your linking the YouTube comments prove?

          • It shows your personality mr Lewis Calgarth. It shows your personality and how contentious and looking for a fight you are. Oh right, those are things you accused him of. What was this about getting a life again?

    • Thank you! On other sites, people have posted comments concerning Dahl’s harassment of people, his belligerent and contentious nature, etc. He is so confrontational that he has been banned from online groups for his filthy language, harassment and sending abusive private emails to members. In fact, according to a comment on one site, his Yahoo account was suspended after people complained about his abusive emails.

      Does anyone really believe Dahl was “invited” to open a “temple” in Bebee? I wouldn’t believe this guy if his tongue came notarized. Also, why would someone looking to open a pagan temple choose a site across from a Pentecostal church?! This in itself is asking for trouble and proves Dahl was looking for a confrontation. I try not to condemn anyone because of their religious beliefs, but if I were pagan, I wouldn’t want to be associated with Dahl because he’s the sort of person that causes Christians, etc. to dislike and fear pagans.

      • What other sites? Guess what, I too have joined political discussion groups and been banned from some, that doesn’t mean or prove that someone is beligerant, it means that someone doesn’t mix well with the mods or those group of people.

        Why shouldn’t anyone open a Temple across from a church?

        So because someone stands up for themselves and gets a bit testy, it makes Christians afraid of Pagans? Pfft, then the Southern Baptists I have debated with, are made of much sterner stuff than you. The Methodists I know and love must have bigger brass ones, because they don’t find me at all scary and I can be pretty outgoing on what i believe.

        • Dahl goes way beyond standing up for himself and getting a “bit testy.” Dahl actively looks for trouble wherever he goes — even on internet websites — and always manages to find it!

          • You keep saying that, but you do not post any proof. If you had it, you would have linked it.

          • I do have it. I linked it on two other sites and both my posts were deleted. One of the sites where Dahl posted was a Yahoo group called Mystic Investigations. You seriously need to get over Dahl and GET A LIFE!

          • Your linking on other sites does not mean diddly. It is not up to me to do your research and show your proof for you. That is up to you. Do your own homework.