[Join us in welcoming Manny Tejeda-Moreno, our new monthly columnist. Manny is a professor and social scientist. His scholarship has been focused in research methods, leadership and diversity, and he has a masters degree in psychotherapy. Manny was born in Cuba and and was raised as a child of Oyá. He is a witch and has been in the Pagan community for almost four decades.]
![[Credit: Nicolas Raymond/Flickr]](https://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/7417313862_dbab2eee5e_z-406x500.jpg)
[Credit: Nicolas Raymond/Flickr]
A few months ago, I published an article on the discrimination of Pagans in the work environment based on my own observations and predictions from theory. Social Psychology, particularly one theory of stigma, tells us that when personal characteristics are not obvious- like eye or skin color for example- the act of disclosing is not only a matter choice but also a process of assessing the consequences of that disclosure. The theory suggests that each of us has an identity that fulfills the expectations of a social setting while possibly simultaneously having an actual identity that is different.
Religion is like that. Unless there is an outward sign of religious affiliation, such as a hijab, one has to look for clues about a person’s faith. In North America and much of the West, society presumes that individuals are Christian, the most common mainstream religious affiliation. It is, of course, an inaccurate presumption; but the point is that most people generally assume that individuals are not different from those who are the most common. The ability to control disclosure combined with a lack of obvious clues permits an individual to “pass” as mainstream.
For me, this raised questions about the experiences of Pagans in the workplace. Pagans are, essentially a rarer find in the social fabric of faith where the most common thread is Christian. In other words, when an individual says “I’m Christian” in the United States, most people think some variant of “you and 260 million other Americans.” With less common faiths, such as Judaism, individuals may be marked by stereotypes, but are also recognized as present in the mainline religious experiences.
However, if someone says “I’m a witch,” most people – almost exclusively those unfamiliar with Paganism — are just left with Halloween imagery or TV episodes as a way of understanding the statement. That left me with questions about the kind of discrimination potential that could occur when someone discloses their Pagan faith. In other words, what happens when someone’s actual identity collides with the identity society expects us to have?
The workplace is one area where there is a potential for such a collision to happen and a setting where many of us can experience vulnerabilities because it represents the source of our income. It is also a setting where individuals are trusted with authority and agency on behalf of a company or a profession. And finally, a place where we are forced to interact with many people who may have very different religious, political or cultural associations from our own. The workplace was of particular interest because it’s both a place where we have to go as well as a place where many of us manage our identities more carefully.
![[Photo Credit: Lars Plougmann/Flickr]](https://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2744040362_6265e8f9f3_z-500x375.jpg)
[Photo Credit: Lars Plougmann/Flickr]
For this study, I asked for volunteers to be interviewed about these work-related experiences. The careers of the participants varied from lawyers to store clerks; from park rangers to physicians. It was a fairly good cross-section of different ages and educational levels with a similar mix of backgrounds and Pagan identities, though the most common was, not surprisingly, Wiccan.
Despite being sampled from many backgrounds and essentially unconnected from one another, all participants reported a process of “coming out” as Pagan.
They reported that being Pagan must be a managed identity, one that could seriously affect them with work or clients. The majority of individuals reported being anxious about disclosure as well as reporting micro-aggressions from colleagues who knew about their beliefs. Micro-aggressions are form of interpersonal discrimination that forces an individual to confront how they are different from social norms or behaviors. These micro-aggressions ranged from the very subtle, such as being invited to join Christian-centered prayers before meals or making statements that a Pagan worker can “hex” the boss; to the more serious forms of overt interpersonal aggression like “praying” for the Pagan participant’s salvation.
The majority of participants also noted that they kept track of who knew what and often were very cautious about preventing disclosure to certain individuals, particularly supervisors. This is a behavioral strategy for controlling disclosure that we term hypervigilance. Across all interviews, a consistent pattern emerged that many individuals were careful to manage their Pagan identity at work, especially among Pagans who had responsibilities over others such as teachers, physicians and psychologists, or were in fields demanding a “rational” persona like engineers and scientists.
As a follow-up to the interviews and for the second study, I gathered some quantitative data using surveys about backgrounds, experiences of discrimination, the amount of satisfaction with work and jobs and the amount of tension work causes for individuals. For this larger study, I invited individuals – both Pagans and non-Pagans from different faith lists – to complete the survey. About a thousand invitations were randomly sent and about one-third responded by completing all the questions on the survey.
The findings here were also fairly consistent. Pagans who kept their identity secret were more than twice as likely as members of Abrahamic faiths (Christians, Jews or Muslims) to experience direct verbal threats or other forms of verbal violence. Those Pagans were also twice as likely to experience other forms of indirect exclusion such as being offered emotional support from a colleague, socializing after work, or receiving advice or help colleagues with work and about 20% more likely to report being dissatisfied with their jobs.
The last two in particular, represent some real deviations from our expected findings in workplace settings. We know many people are dissatisfied with work for example, but we expect that dissatisfaction to be spread along a normal curve in the mainstream population and not be over-reported by one specific group. However, when the analyses were conducted with Pagans who were open at work about their faith, the numbers doubled. They were 4 times as likely to experience all forms of interpersonal violence and indirect exclusion. There was a significantly greater dissatisfaction at work, and significantly increased tension in the workplace. Finally, about a third of Pagans reported being outed at work; and also reported the most serious consequences.
The study also revealed one other interesting finding. In this sample, Pagans happened to be more educated than their Abrahamic counterparts. And yet, Pagans reported earning, on average, 25% less income than their Abrahamic colleagues. This finding is, regrettably, also consistent with theory: a minority group will still experience income challenges despite having equal or better levels of education.
So what does all this say? Well, the data are what the data are. As scientists, we’re trained never to go beyond our data. Having said that, the findings do open up questions about how discrimination is occurring in our community. It raises social justice questions about how we – as a collective, big umbrella group – promote our identity and manage prejudice against us. It also questions how we engage with the broader community in efforts to educate others about Pagan beliefs and identity with the explicit expectation that religious discrimination has no place in our society.
Conducting this research reminded me of a story Pagan Elder Margot Adler once told about her experiences at NPR when she applied for host positions. She spoke about coming out as a Pagan, and how managers were scared of her identity enough that they blocked parts of her career. This research, I hope, is an extension of her legacy. It should serve as a reminder and cautionary tale that the rules we have – such as the photography that I mentioned earlier – have a real purpose. They are there to safeguard the community, because it is still a misunderstood, minority religion and culture. But foremost that we understand ourselves within the social construct of a Pagan identity- which for all the commonness it may have to us- to the mainstream where we remain still deliciously radical.
Author’s Note: The reference and original article is “Skeletons in the Broom Closet: Exploring the Discrimination of Pagans in the Workplace”, Journal of Management and Spirituality, 2014, July 24, DOI: 10.1080/14766086.2014.933710.
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I could definitely relate to many of the experiences mentioned in this article. I’d be curious to know if location was a factor you noticed having an effect at all. I think a lot of Pagans have an idea that there are these “problem areas” of the country like the “bible belt,” but that everywhere else is just sunshine and roses. It’s definitely not… All it takes is one person in your workplace to find out and get freaked out about your religion to make trouble for you, especially when those in charge are of the monotheistic, “one true way” mindset.
Obvious evidence of religious bias in the workplace (in this case the political arena) can be found in http://sunthisweek.com/2014/10/23/intriguing-information-on-cara-schulz/
Cara is an open Hellenic Polytheist and the person writing the letter linked to wanted to “out” her in order to sabotage her campaign. Ultimately, Cara did not win election, but if you read the comments you can see that there are people who are willing to make the point that religion does not dictate how good a job you do
*Nods* I also love how they used the name of a goddess as a subtle smear tactic (“…and worshippers of the goddess Isis”), given that Daesh was starting to be heavily reported on under that name at the time. *sigh*
I notice that Mr. Obama does not refer to Daesh as Isis.
This is very interesting! I’m very much in-the-closet at work, both for my sake and the sake of my non-religious husband who works with a lot of very in-your-face Christians. Sometimes I wonder if we’re being too paranoid, and if I was “out” everything would be fine. I even sometimes get flack from other pagans about this, who say they are “out” at work and it’s fine for them, so I should be open about it as well. They say we shouldn’t be “ashamed” of who we are.
But this study seems to indicate that we’re NOT being too paranoid, that many pagans really do face negative repercussions at work. That’s unfortunate. I was kinda hoping I really was being too paranoid, but it’s good to know the truth.
I just don’t think being able to openly talk about paganism at work is worth possibly compromising my family’s livelihood and our careers.
And, as the article shows, it’s not just being able to converse socially at work — after all, that’s not the time or place for religious discussion, generally. But it is even being known — or suspected — of being Pagan, whether we display unequivocal signs or not. It is a matter of day-to-day living as human beings. The linked letter about Cara is an example.
Why would there be any admonition about not being “ashamed” of “who we are” if that “who we are” were not a suspect identity to begin with?
When I was still employed as an engineer, I was out of the broom closet (eventually — I had found my way into the Craft early in my employment at that same company) but not broadcasting any more than any other inept newbie. That was nearly 25 years ago. Other matters led to the demise of my engineering career.
My second career is in chaplaincy, and my residency at a public psychiatric hospital made the boundaries clear. My colleagues were allowed to be in on my true path, but the patients and other staff must be kept in the dark lest someone be “spooked” that I’m a Witch. Those boundaries remain my working boundaries in most of my chaplaincy work — and it turns out they are appropriate.
When I am called to help someone in spiritual crisis, what matters is their religion, not mine. It is my job to ascertain their spiritual language and needs, and to focus our conversation on their needs. Popping out against the background of their assumptions would redirect the focus to me, rather than to their needs. If asked, I will not lie, but I will be brilliantly vague and rely on the Goddess to put the right words in my mouth and actions in my hands.
Is it worth your dignity? Centuries of history have proven beyond all doubt that staying closeted or otherwise downplaying one’s identity – is a losing strategy. It failed for the LGBT community. It failed spectacularly for the Jews. I’m not even talking about the obvious tragedy of the Holocaust. In the 1490s, right about the time of Columbus’ voyage, Spain gave Jews a choice. Three, actually: Convert, leave, or die. Those who converted, who denied their religion and at least outwardly lived as the majority faith – were better off, in a short-term material sense. They didn’t have to live in the ghetto anymore. New paths to social and economic success opened to them.
The tradeoff? They were never accepted as true equals, and they were not ultimately safe from persecution. If anything, their position was more precarious. They were always vulnerable to charges of “backsliding” or being a “Crypto-Jew”. Anyone who envied their success or harbored a personal grudge could take them down. The Spanish Inquisition was not about hunting witches. It was primarily started to persecute these unfortunate Jews who had gone into their own “broom closets” hoping, fruitlessly, for safety.
To the extent you stay in the closet for the sake of career and social standing, you will follow in their footsteps. Not the stake or the rack, but you will ALWAYS be second-class citizens, living and working by the leave and benevolence of superiors to whom you have ceded this power over you. Your children will live exactly the same way, should they follow your religious paths. You will also find the safety of the closet increasingly illusory. In the age of social media, the walls and ceiling of that closet have cameras. Unless you, and all of your “friends” out to four degrees of separation maintain perfect hermetically sealed discretion around your religion at all times, you’re gonna get found out anyway.
I worked for a corporation for 20 plus years and never came out. Besides being low key I also saw the micro-sniping that other “minorities” got from the evangelical xtians. I was in a clerical position and almost all of my co-workers were evangelicals. I was also treated condescendingly for having been to college and reading during breaks. I was a square peg in most aspects of the office subculture, and that helped mask my cubical decorations, Pictures of Gods and Goddesses, little desk statues of deities and mythic critters. Well, masked it enough that no one ever busted me to my face. My period of being undercover was in San Francisco, a very open city, for many.
Every 2 years I have to take anti-discrimintion training and every 2 years I get pissed off taking the training. The training states that people cannot discriminate against non-traditional religions, but the person who is in a non-traditional religion has to jump through way more hoops to prove that they truly are devoted to that non-traditional religion to even claim discrimination or even take the offered 5 personal day/religious holiday days. I feel like I am being discriminated against just taking the training.
Have you ever brought this point up during the training?
It is all online training. No one to bring this up to unless I want to talk with HR and since I do not have day to day contact with them, I am not sure I want to come out of the broom closet to them.
I see. I’m pretty mouthy at face to face meetings, but in your situation, I probably would not speak up. Perhaps I would stay alert for a better opportunity to raise the question, in a situation where I wouldn’t be all alone and outing myself.
I suspect that most companies and government agencies do employee training on any interpersonal issue very badly. Unless the business or agency is very large, they don’t develop these programs in house. They hire contractors.
The contractors know nothing about the corporate culture of the organization that hired them, much less about the particular department they are training. They give the same canned presentations and do the same exercises every place they go. The contractors have no stake in whether the training produces any good results. What motivates them is satisfying whoever hired them that a box has been checked off so that they will be hired again. Any kind of honest feedback from the employees who were sent for training (people don’t volunteer for this) might lead to trouble, and trouble is the last thing the contractors want.
Usually the trainers are generic trainers. They were not hired on account of personal experience in whatever area they train in. They don’t have law degrees. They don’t have sociology degrees. They don’t have broad life experience. They probably did not have any input into the curriculum they are teaching. They regurgitate whatever talking points they were given, and might believe them. If you challenge them on something they say, they probably don’t have enough depth of knowledge to consider your point and come up with a better answer.
The goal of pointing out defects in the contents of the training while it’s happening isn’t to improve the training, much less to improve the way your employer runs things. You do have a brief window of opportunity to get the other employees in the room to think about something they hadn’t thought about, and raise their consciousness. It’s necessary to be brief and fairly polite, so your co-workers don’t think you are a crank and the trainer doesn’t put you down as a troublemaker.
When I worked for 5 years as a Bank Teller, I didn’t let anyone know I was Pagan for the first couple years. Then it came out that I was not Christian, thats when the harassment started from my manager. She is a “devout” Christian and one of my other co-worker’s was Mormon. Couple other co-worker’s also claimed Christian as well. In the last year I was there, the manager decided to force everyone to randomly pray for things (prayer circle) and to listen to a Christian Radio station all day, including a note on the banks radio to not change the channel or the volume. When I made a complaint to the corporate HR regarding it, then I was suddenly getting written up for any little thing they could find. I was eventually let go, “because I had to many sales for the quarter and I had to have been cheating the system”; even though I could legitimately justify every account “sale” for that quarter. Anyone ever hear of being fired for having “to many sales”?
In all honesty, they did me a favor though. I now have a great job, work full time (the 5 years I worked at the bank it was only ever 20 hours a week), and I make more money then those tellers do even now. I also made sure when I had to take care of my son’s account there the other day, I let them see how happy I was and let it drop how much more I am now paid. Thank you Karma! 🙂
Mr. Tejeda-Moreno, could you clarify the meaning of the paragraph that begins, “The findings here were also fairly consistent,” and the paragraph immediately following it? If I understand correctly, you found that Pagans who conceal their religious affiliation are twice as likely as Abrahamics to experience verbal threats and half as likely to receive informal social support, but that Pagans who voluntarily disclose their religion suffer verbal violence and exclusion at twice the rate of closeted Pagans.
Are you saying that your study results show that in American workplaces, the very fact that one is Pagan is likely to result in unequal treatment whether one conceals that fact or discloses it? And that staying in the closet results in fewer adverse consequences for the individual?
The findings show that Pagans who discose their faith at work were more likely to experience aggression when compared to the Abrahamic group. The disclosure issue is a little more complicated because some individuals were “outed” – itself a form of violence. But, yes, you can cautiously interpret the data to suggest that Pagans who kept their faith secret were less likely to experience adverse consequences.
I think studies like this are a very good step in the right direction, especially in a society that values statistics. Correlating the effects of discrimination against Pagans with data for health or work performance issues is also a good step; so long as the studies were authored in a way so that the resulting data couldn’t be turned against Pagans (i.e. “The studies show that Pagans are often calling in sick and performing poorly when compared to monotheist colleagues,” versus “The studies show that it is the act of religious discrimination itself that leads to an increase in health and work performance issues”).
I’d be very interested in similar studies from other countries, as a point of comparison. In particular, I would find a survey of Pagans in the workplace in Germany (where religion is often regarded as an impolite topic for casual conversation, outside of home or place of worship); and Iceland, where a Pagan / Heathen faith is much more commonplace, and the society is known for its tolerance.
I’m in Australia and religion is pretty casual here. You don’t get the same in your face Christianity and you can pretty much assume that most people at your work place are some sort of Christian aware agnostic but not really religious. I find that in most workplaces I have been in that I don’t get discriminated against in any obvious way. However in workplaces where I have been out, I find that I am not taken as serioisly, my ideas and complaints are dismissed more readily and I am treated with a professional disdain as if my experience doesn’t count and my contributions aren’t trustworthy. I guess for people who don’t believe in magic my religion must make me look like a fantasist moron and they can’t help but treat me accordingly. I don’t disclose at work any more and it is much less frustrating.
I second wefneck. My experiences in Australia have been met with either apathy or curiosity. But I avoid disclosing just in case (I work with the public). Most times any insults or discrimination have come from atheists.
It’s the same attitude toward religion that people have in China. People don’t care what religion you believe in, they will view you as Ned Flanders or a woo laden new ager for being into religion, period.
Would this change if you were working with Aboriginal People, whose psirituality does involve magic?
The situation in France, I think also Germany and China is similar in that people don’t care what religion you believe in, they will view you as Ned Flanders, a hillbilly or a new ager for being into religion, period.
I can’t speak for how things are in France or China, and for Germany I can only speak based on my own observations rather than authoritatively from solid statistics: the problem isn’t so much that you’re considered odd for being religious or having a religious belief. I’ve encountered a lot of ‘average’ Germans who have some rather profound religious / spiritual thoughts and beliefs. The social taboo I’ve noticed has less to do with ‘being into religion,’ and more to do with bringing it into places and situations where others simply don’t feel it has any place. I know that might sound like splitting hairs; but I brought this up for a very specific reason, in that even in a country where one of the dominant governing parties calls itself the Christian Democratic Union, it seems there is less religious discrimination in the workplace than what one encounters in America; which was first colonized in large part by religious minorities, and which guarantees religious freedom in its constitution of laws. This leads me to wonder why the law has itself not been mentioned much in this discussion – it should clearly be on the side of those who are being discriminated against – are there ways it could perhaps be used more effectively?
Religious discrimination only applies if you’re Christian. Business don’t have to hire you, and can indeed fire you if they are “Christian” organizations, much like we’ve seen done in the matter of Employer-paid birth control. Looking at you, Hobby Lobby.
I do not discuss religion at work except very rarely yet I make no secret of it or try to hide it as my myriad of bumper stickers and other clues make it pretty obvious. The more open we are the less we have to fear. You shouldn’t have to hide something you are not ashamed of.
Very timely article considering I just found out I have a pagan coworker. I told her I was still in the “broom closet”…..I’m the medical director of the ER and I work in a highly conservative area in south TX.
I wish I had known about your studies, Dr. Tejada-Moreno. I experienced some pretty extreme harassment at work two years ago…and because I am an adjunct professor, I had little recourse or wiggle room in the situation. HR and the admins were pretty horrible about it. Long story; but what angers me most is that they dropped an investigation of harassment against one of my pagan students, and didn’t even allow a message of “Harassment of any sort is against college policies” to be issued after the incident.
Ugh. 🙁 Shame on them.
I was raised in Miami and have been out of the broom closet as long as I’ve been Pagan. I don’t recall ever experiencing any discrimination over my religion. Miami is conservative in many ways, but its very religiously diverse. I live in Melbourne, Australia now and I was warned by friends to stay in the broom closet here, but it’s just not possible. Anyone who Googles me will know. And I’m ok with that.
First time ever commenting on a wild hunt post, but i find this article absolutely intriguing. Firstly through all jobs I have had, I have been open practically from the get go but this is due to my appearance mostly. I also find it comes up alot in conversation for whatever reason either way.
Secondly i have found that most pagans older then 30 tend to be wary of their spiritual identity but they also grew up in a time where it was still so far on the fridge that it was dangerous for it to get out. Being a 23 year old who is both a professional (worked in corporate, medical and tech, now self employed) but also a college student, i find that i want to try and change that perception of a witch on the fridge. I’ve never really experienced the discrimination but i feel i don’t allow for it to happen by confronting it head on.
To go along with this and another post recently ( http://wildhunt.org/2015/03/culture-and-community-evolving-leadership-within-modern-paganism.html )
In order to bring about a stronger pagan future for our community and be the leader that i can be in my local community to whatever capacity that means, i must be LOUD, PROUD, AND OPEN! We must fight with peace, wisdom, and confidence in ourselves and the old way.
I have always been out and it never impaced my job. In fact, it once turned out that my boss was Pagan as well. I wonder how much of this is true discrimination, which I am certain does happen BTW, and how much is personal assumption that one is being treated poorly because of belonging to a minority religion.
I am interested in knowing more about how this study was conducted. If it was all self-reported, I would take it a lot less seriously, TBH. In my experience, Pagans can be a little… paranoid.
I worked in small, conservative towns most of my career. I was never “out”, and never felt the slightest possibility that being so would have been safe, either for my career, or in some towns, physically. In a couple cases, staying in the closet required elaborate precautions – getting a P.O. box one or two towns over, so I would receive Pagan publications at my own address, hiding books, music CDs and decorations so that no one would see when they came to my apartment, expressing only approved opinions so that no one would ask questions, in general doing everything I could to escape notice or scrutiny.
It was a horrid, oppressive, stressful life. It is still what many Pagans must go through if they wish to have a professional career in certain parts of the United States, particularly in the smaller communities, though not only there.
As long as Pagans and others – atheists, Muslims, followers of Afro-Caribbean religions, to name a few – must endure such oppression, the American promise of religious liberty is a lie.
And as long as such conditions exist, we – Pagans, Heathens, Polytheists, radical, respectable, and those who partake a little of both, of all political persuasions and ethnic backgrounds – must stick together, and support one another, try to see one another’s point of view, and learn to cooperate despite our differences. Our survival, as a community and as individuals, depends on it.
When I was younger it was considered improper to talk about religion or politics in a professional setting. Whether you’re a Christian or Pagan, a conservative or a liberal, it was viewed as weird to talk about it at work or in a mixed setting.
A lot of people say stuff like they were raised Jewish, Hindu or Catholic, but they don’t believe in it as an adult. Some of them have new age beliefs and some of them are just regular atheist / agnostic.
As for taking off work, the only thing I know about is that people occasionally leave early for Yom Kippur. The vast majority of people don’t take time off for cultural holidays like Chinese new year, Eid, Diwali etc.
An even minimally observant Jew does not work on Yom Kippur. There are plenty of Jews who are completely secular and never set foot in a synagogue, but a Jew who has any adherence to the Jewish religion at all and can’t get Yom Kippur off without adverse consequences, in a workplace where others are not expected to work on Christmas, is being discriminated against. Given the history of most European countries, I would not be surprised if that is the case.
I work in food service and I have no idea how many times a week I deal with derogatory remarks about my faith, from both coworkers and customers. I am fairly open about it with select people, but people talk. So whether or not I want a coworker to know, doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t or will.
Between having jokes made about me casting spells on people, or coworkers straight up accusing me of worshiping Satan on a regular basis, I’m honestly half tempted to make a call to HR and threaten a lawsuit. It isn’t even with one or two coworkers. A majority of the store treats me as if I’m a plague, just because I’m a spiritual minority there.
Example. One of my coworkers that found out I was Pagan approached me about how I was celebrating Halloween. As many of you here know, Samhain is often spent honoring our dead. So I told her that I was going to be leaving flowers for people that meant a lot to me and were buried locally.
She then went on a tirade about how that’s the weirdest thing she ever heard and that I must celebrate the day that way because I’m not a parent yet. And I said, “No, I celebrate it that way because that is what my spiritual beliefs are, and also because that sticks more with the origin of the holiday.”
Remarks were then made about me sacrificing children and goats, etc etc.
It’s gotten to be quite a severe problem and I have no idea how to even approach the situation anymore.
But. I still wear my pentacle and I am still proud of who I am, derogatory comments or no. Their ignorance and judgment will not yield concession from me, that’s for sure.
It seems they don’t understand what Memorial or Veterans Days are for.
Welcome, Professor!
A volunteer job in Santa Cruz had no problem with my spirituality–it feeds into the Reduce/Reuse/Recycle (and sometimes Restore) meme.
Working for a longtime email friend finally in the area, who knew and didn’t care, because it had nothing to do with my work at a BN University, was no issue. My next job, I think my boss was more interested in my ability to stay on my mental-health meds. He had a sister with bipolar disorder, there was already a phenomenal young woman on staff with schizo-affective disorder who managed herself as best she could. She’d take time off with a bad cycle, but she made up her time on off hours. Absolutely trustworthy, too. LF was more interested in how well I did my job, but did ask once about my spiritual path. When I was hired, it was right before PCon, and I wanted to wait until after that, but I was needed right then, but time for PCon was easily arranged.