<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:slash="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/slash/"
	>

<channel>
	<title>The Wild Hunt &#187; Christmas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wildhunt.org/blog/tag/christmas/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:55:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<language>en</language>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
			<item>
		<title>Hail To The Unconquered Sun!</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dies Natalis Solis Invicti]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mithras]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/hail-to-the-unconquered-sun-3.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Due to family obligations I won&#8217;t be blogging today, but I&#8217;ll be back tomorrow with my regular daily dose of modern Pagan-related news and commentary. In the meantime I wish a very happy holiday season to you all, and a very happy birthday to Jesus of Nazareth, Mithras, Carlos Castenada, Sol Invictus, Robert Ripley, and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to family obligations I won&#8217;t be blogging today, but I&#8217;ll be back tomorrow with my regular daily dose of modern Pagan-related news and commentary. In the meantime I wish a very happy holiday season to you all, and a very happy birthday to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus">Jesus of Nazareth</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras">Mithras</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castenada">Carlos Castenada</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus">Sol Invictus</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ripley">Robert Ripley</a>, and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Lennox">Annie Lennox</a> among many others.<br /><center><br /><img src="http://www.wildhunt.org/uploaded_images/Disc_Sol_BM_GR1899.12-1.2-789589.jpg"><br /><small>Sol Invictus</small><br /></center><br />Happy Holidays! Back tomorrow.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>The Christians Want to Give It Back!</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/christians-want-to-give-it-back.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/christians-want-to-give-it-back.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[post-Christian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Saturnalia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Tony Woodlief]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Winter Solstice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World Magazine]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/the-christians-want-to-give-it-back.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know you&#8217;re in for a good time when a Christian editorial about Christmas starts off with a H.L. Mencken quote. Writer and budding parenting guru Tony Woodlief wants to give Pagans the greatest gift of all this holiday season, he wants to give us our winter holiday back. 
&#8220;We succeeded in supplanting the pagan [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know you&#8217;re in for a good time when <a href="http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/08/lets-give-it-back-to-the-pagans/">a Christian editorial about Christmas</a> starts off with a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.L._Mencken">H.L. Mencken</a> quote. Writer and budding parenting guru <a href="http://store.pamphleteerpress.com/08.html">Tony Woodlief</a> wants to give Pagans the greatest gift of all this holiday season, <a href="http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/08/lets-give-it-back-to-the-pagans/">he wants to give us our winter holiday back.</a> </p>
<p><i>&#8220;We succeeded in supplanting the pagan holiday, but we didn’t rid ourselves of the pagans. Instead, a good many of us joined in, gradually helping to associate Christmas with over-consumption, drunken revelry, and self-centered celebration. One can’t help but wonder if Christ would just as soon have us call what America now celebrates something else, something that doesn’t invoke his name. In this I find myself increasingly on the side of the grievance-minded and the anti-Christians—let’s publicly call this big event the “Happy Holidays,” or “Winter Festival,” or even “Saturnalia,” and stop—for the love of God—calling it Christmas.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>We here at <span style="font-style:italic;">The Wild Hunt</span> fully support Woodlief&#8217;s proposition for Christians to fully surrender to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postchristianity">a post-Christian inevitability</a>. Here&#8217;s hoping <a href="http://online.worldmag.com/2008/12/08/lets-give-it-back-to-the-pagans/">his suggestion</a> for all Christians to <span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;quietly celebrate the birth of Christ in our churches and homes&#8221;</span> reaches far and wide! Now that <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2008/10/epicenter-of-halloween-in-america.html">Pagans have retaken Halloween</a>, and the tide is turning for the Winter holidays, could it be time for <span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;the grievance-minded and the anti-Christians&#8221;</span> to set their sights on Eas&#8230; I mean <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostara">Eostre</a>?<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/christians-want-to-give-it-back.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>6</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Preparing For the &quot;Pagan Christmas&quot; Rush</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/preparing-for-pagan-christmas-rush.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/preparing-for-pagan-christmas-rush.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[holidays]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[secularism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Winter Solstice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Yule]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/preparing-for-the-pagan-christmas-rush.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[December brings many things: snow, cold weather, people acting horribly at shopping centers, and journalists seeking a new angle on holiday reporting. A favorite in recent years is to talk of the &#8220;pagan&#8221; origins of the Christmas holiday. These often come in the form of editorials rebutting the inane &#8220;War on Christmas&#8221; prattlings by Bill [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>December brings many things: snow, cold weather, <a href="http://consumerist.com/5099900/wal+mart-employee-trampled-to-death-as-mob-tears-doors-off-hinges">people acting horribly at shopping centers</a>, and journalists seeking a new angle on holiday reporting. A favorite in recent years is to talk of the &#8220;pagan&#8221; origins of the Christmas holiday. These often come in the form of editorials rebutting the inane <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy">&#8220;War on Christmas&#8221;</a> prattlings by Bill O&#8217;Reilly and his ilk. For example, <a href="http://www.duluthbudgeteer.com/articles/index.cfm?id=23342">Pete Langr of the Budgeteer News has this to say</a>.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;It’s ironic that the effort to put Christ back in Christmas is both so profitable and so willing to focus on the Christmas tree and on the word “merry.” The Christmas tree itself “has nothing to do with other religious holidays celebrated in December” says my letter writer. Except that the Christmas tree was apparently co-opted by Christians from a pagan celebration in which evergreen boughs were hung in the home. In effect, the pagans lost an earlier culture war. Perhaps they bartered buttons saying &#8216;take back our winter solstice celebration.&#8217;&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.seniortimesmagazine.com/features/595/the-long-road-to-modern-christmas-celebrations">And</a> <a href="http://www.campkc.com/campkc-content.php?Page_ID=1128">so on</a>, <a href="http://www.starbulletin.com/features/featuresstories/20081128_noels_angel_sits_atop_pagan_tree.html">and</a> <a href="http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/christmas-carping">so forth</a>. Some reporters <a href="http://news.opb.org/article/3608-oregon-christmas-trees-shipped-far-and-wide-holidays/">have even tried to debunk the &#8220;Christmas traditions aren&#8217;t really Christian&#8221; debunkers.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Despite popular belief, the idea of Christmas trees did not come from Pagan rituals. In fact, the first Christmas trees are believed to have originated in 17th century Germany. It took two centuries for the idea to catch on in the U.S.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>To bad <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm">the Bible somewhat refutes</a> that notion.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Jeremiah 10:2-4: &#8220;Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.&#8221; (KJV).&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The New York Times has <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/books/review/Harrison-t.html?ref=books">its own formula for many beloved Christmas traditions:</a> pagans invented them, Christians appropriated them, Dickens (and 19th century England) synthesized, secularized, and popularized them, and the public embraced the entire culturally tangled mess whole-cloth.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Standiford, the author of four other non­fiction books, tidily explains the appeal of “A Christmas Carol,” its readership “said at the turn of the 20th century to be second only to the Bible’s.” Replacing the slippery Holy Ghost with anthropomorphized spirits, the infant Christ with a crippled child whose salvation waits on man’s — not God’s — generosity, Dickens laid claim to a religious festival, handing it over to the gathering forces of secular humanism. If a single night’s crash course in man’s power to redress his mistakes and redeem his future without appealing to an invisible and silent deity could rehabilitate even so apparently lost a cause as Ebenezer Scrooge, imagine what it might do for the rest of us!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>So the answer to the &#8220;pagan origins&#8221; debate is that everyone&#8217;s right. A lot of &#8220;Christmas-y&#8221; stuff is pre-Christian in some form or another, but it is equally true to say that they have been fully absorbed into a Christian context. In turn, both the pagan and Christian contexts for hanging the holly and trimming the tree have morphed into a fully secular affair, complete with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_the_Red-Nosed_Reindeer_(TV_special)">a popular mythology</a> that is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Year_Without_a_Santa_Claus">a mish-mash</a> of pagan, Christian, and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_the_Grinch_Stole_Christmas">pop-culture</a> elements. What the Christmas warriors don&#8217;t understand is that their war was lost long ago, and the majority of people who just wanted a reason to find hope, merriment, and camaraderie during the bleak midwinter won out.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/12/preparing-for-pagan-christmas-rush.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Hail To The Unconquered Sun!</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dies Natalis Solis Invicti]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mithras]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/hail-to-the-unconquered-sun-2.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Due to family obligations I won&#8217;t be blogging today, but I&#8217;ll be back tomorrow with my regular daily dose of modern Pagan-related news and commentary. In the meantime I wish a very happy holiday season to you all, and a very happy birthday to Jesus of Nazareth, Mithras, Carlos Castenada, Sol Invictus, Robert Ripley, and [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to family obligations I won&#8217;t be blogging today, but I&#8217;ll be back tomorrow with my regular daily dose of modern Pagan-related news and commentary. In the meantime I wish a very happy holiday season to you all, and a very happy birthday to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus">Jesus of Nazareth</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras">Mithras</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castenada">Carlos Castenada</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus">Sol Invictus</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ripley">Robert Ripley</a>, and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Lennox">Annie Lennox</a> among many others.<br /><center><br /><img src="http://www.wildhunt.org/uploaded_images/Disc_Sol_BM_GR1899.12-1.2-789589.jpg"><br /><small>Sol Invictus</small><br /></center><br />Happy Holidays! Back tomorrow.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/hail-to-unconquered-sun.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>(Pagan) News of Note</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/pagan-news-of-note_18.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/pagan-news-of-note_18.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Baby Boomers]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Druidry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Episcopagan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Iceland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ireland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Age]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pagan News of Note]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Starhawk]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Yule]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/pagan-news-of-note-37.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My semi-regular round-up of articles, essays, and opinions of note for discerning Pagans and Heathens.
Remember the Episcopagan scandals? Well, the main player in that drama, former Episcopalian priest turned Druid Walter William Melnyk, is releasing a new novel co-written with with Druid priestess Emma Restall Orr entitled &#8220;The Apple and The Thorn&#8221;.
&#8220;The Apple and The [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My semi-regular round-up of articles, essays, and opinions of note for discerning Pagans and Heathens.</p>
<p>Remember the <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2005/04/episcopagan-scandal-update-back-in.html">Episcopagan scandals?</a> Well, the main player in that drama, former Episcopalian priest turned Druid Walter William Melnyk, <a href="http://www.bloggernews.net/112455">is releasing a new novel</a> co-written with with <a href="http://druidnetwork.org/profiles/people/emma_restall-orr.html">Druid priestess Emma Restall Orr</a> entitled <a href="http://www.theappleandthethorn.com/">&#8220;The Apple and The Thorn&#8221;</a>.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The Apple and The Thorn is a love story set on the mythical Isle of Avalon at the time of the Roman invasion of Britain. The novel draws on the persistent myths of the Lady of the Lake; legends of Jesus&#8217; visit to Glastonbury with Joseph of Arimathea; the Holy Grail and the Chalice Well. Although set in ancient times, it is a heart-rending tale of power and belief, a contemporary reminder of the emotional and physical conflicts that surface when the missionary zeal of one faith threatens to destroy the beauty and spirituality of indigenous culture and suppress freedom of belief and worship.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>If the Lady of the Lake and Joseph of Arimathea debating over the true nature of Jesus (and the resulting Christian religion) is your kind of thing, no doubt you&#8217;ll be well-pleased with what Melnyk and Orr have produced. The book is <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-Thorn-Timeless-Tale-Ages/dp/187045068X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1197988280&#038;sr=8-1">out now in the UK</a>, and is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Thorn-Emma-Restall-Orr/dp/187045068X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1197988177&#038;sr=8-1">scheduled for a May release in the US.</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071216/LIFE/712160662/1079/life">The Lansing State Journal reports</a> that Baby-Boom religious seekers will most likely remain seekers once they hit retirement. </p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;He said that, as boomers age, as they become grandparents, they seem to be &#8216;moving into that phase that humanistic psychologists have talked about of thinking about what they give back, not just what they get,&#8217; he said, &#8216;what they give back to family, community and country.&#8217; The question for religious institutions is whether they can provide the settings for that search for meaning. &#8216;Organized religion has been reaching out to try to create venues for this kind of thing,&#8217; Roof said. &#8216;But I think the baby-boom generation still feels free to find truth wherever they can.&#8217;&#8221;</span></p>
<p>So don&#8217;t worry, it doesn&#8217;t appear that <a href="http://www.starhawk.org/">Starhawk</a> will be converting to Orthodox Judaism (or <a href="http://www.neopagan.net/IB_Bio.html">Isaac Bonewits</a> to Catholicism) any time soon. I, for one, welcome our less-self-centered Boomer overlords. I&#8217;d like to remind them that as a trusted blogging personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others <strike>to toil in their underground sugar caves</strike> to engage in compassionate missions of goodness.</p>
<p>Speaking of Starhawk, <a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/starhawk/2007/12/respect_diversity_in_public_ce.html">she weighs in on the subject of diversity, pluralism, and the &#8220;Christmas Wars&#8221;</a> at the Washington Post <a href="http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/">&#8220;On Faith&#8221;</a> blog.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re being too &#8216;politically correct&#8217; to hold to the guiding principles that our Constitution is founded upon. As someone who was raised Jewish and who is a practicing Pagan, I support Christmas. I think it&#8217;s a beautiful holiday, a wonderful celebration of birth and hope in the midst of the dark of winter. I support Christ being the &#8217;star of the show&#8217; in every Christian Church and Christian home. I sympathize deeply with my Christian and secular friends who are struggling to keep the holiday from devolving into CommercialMass or Giftmas and to focus on its deeper meaning. I do not support Christ being the star of the show in public celebrations &#8211; not unless he&#8217;s willing to share the stage with Lugh the Sun God and Saule the Sun Goddess, Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna, Judah Macabee and a host of others. Even then, either someone gets left out or every celebration becomes an interminable endurance test. And how do atheists get equal time?&#8221;</i></p>
<p>While Americans battle over how much <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUrqaJZH-04">Baby Jesus</a> gets to happen in public, <a href="http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16539&#038;ew_0_a_id=296009">Iceland has no problems connecting the Yule-tide dots</a> between Christian and pagan practice.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Head Folklorist at the University of Iceland Terry Gunnell will give a presentation in English today and again on December 22 at the National Museum of Iceland, located in Reykjavik, about the traditional Icelandic Yule. The presentation is entitled &#8216;The Icelandic Yule. An illustrated presentation in English reviewing the beliefs and traditions of Icelandic Christmas past and present, from pagan gods to practical joking Christmas Lads.&#8217;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Between this and the <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/war-on-christmas-is-over-if-you-want-it.html">joint Pagan-Christian celebrations in Lithuania</a>, you gotta wonder if Europe isn&#8217;t on to something here. But if tolerance and peaceful co-celebration isn&#8217;t an option, you can <a href="http://www.paranormalrestrainingorders.com/">always file a restraining order on the cause(s) of this whole mess.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Paranormal Restraining Orders Keep them away! Since the dawn of time, mankind has sought the means of keeping away supernatural and paranormal entities. Now, for only $5 each, receive a printed document that bars them from approaching or contacting you.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>They really need to broaden their options, there are all sorts of celestial powers I want to keep a safe distance from me. </p>
<p><a href="http://thesmartset.com/article/article12070701.aspx">The Smart Set&#8217;s Emily Maloney visits a Body, Mind, and Spirit Expo</a> so you don&#8217;t have to.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The whole expo felt like a bad shopping trip where shoppers and sellers were all piecing together a mix and match vision of reality. I also found listening to people who were capable of distorting their cognition in such whimsical ways nearly impossible to understand. I mean, if I could get in touch with the Devic Kingdom, wherever that is, I could definitely use a fat, chipper gnome to remind me of my grocery list, or help me find overdue library books, or drive when I got too drunk (if that&#8217;s not asking too much to ask of a gnome), but I just don&#8217;t know how to go playfully crazy in the direction of woodland fairies and jolly gnomes.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I completely empathize with the mental block (which I playfully call &#8220;sanity&#8221;) that doesn&#8217;t allow me the full range of spiritual experiences some of my more &#8220;out there&#8221; co-religionists seem to regularly engage in. Then again, if it got me a gnome-housekeeper, perhaps I should try harder.</p>
<p>In a final (fae) note, <a href="http://www.bookslut.com/blog/archives/2007_12.php#012125">Bookslut lets us know</a> that there is <a href="http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-rutten12dec12,0,4115908.story?coll=cl-books-util">a new English translation out of the classic Irish epic &#8220;The Tain&#8221;.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;It&#8217;s all quite fantastic, but in Carson&#8217;s version never preposterous. In part, that&#8217;s because he&#8217;s such a skilled translator. Carson has done deft poetic justice to book-length works by Dante and the 18th century Irish poet Brian Merriman. This &#8220;Tain&#8221; also benefits from the fact that, among the formidable group of poets to emerge from Ulster over the last few decades, Carson has remained closest to the roots of that troubled province&#8217;s traditions. He is the author of two fine books on traditional music, and this translation is dedicated to a traditional Gaelic storyteller. Because he is a fine poet and &#8212; in that Yeatsian sense &#8212; &#8220;a rooted man,&#8221; Carson&#8217;s translation teases from &#8220;The Tain&#8221; several of the things that make it so remarkable: First and foremost among them is the fact that &#8212; unlike, say, the Iliad &#8212; the characters in &#8220;The Tain&#8221; don&#8217;t stand as archetypes. They&#8217;re real people &#8212; conflicted, complex, alternately admirable and reprehensible, capable of courtesy and deceit, generosity and cunning. Cu Chulainn is a superhero and a vain adolescent, a warrior sometimes thrust into mourning by his own skill. He, like other characters in this &#8220;Tain,&#8221; is also very funny.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>You can find the new translation, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670018686?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=artandlies-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=0670018686">here</a>.</p>
<p>That is all I have for now, have a good day!<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/pagan-news-of-note_18.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>You Saw This One Coming</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/you-saw-this-one-coming.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/you-saw-this-one-coming.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Circle Sanctuary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Bay]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nativity Display]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentacle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wisconsin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/you-saw-this-one-coming.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As if by clockwork, last night a man tried to removed the Pentacle wreath on top of the Green Bay City Hall which was placed next to a controversial Nativity scene.
&#8220;Someone who vandalized a Wiccan wreath atop City Hall early today fled the scene, but left a ladder behind. At 12:43 a.m., a Green Bay [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As if by clockwork, <a href="http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071217/GPG0101/71217010/1206/GPGnews">last night a man tried to removed the Pentacle wreath on top of the Green Bay City Hall</a> which was <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/return-of-holiday-pentacle-saga.html">placed next to a controversial Nativity scene.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Someone who vandalized a Wiccan wreath atop City Hall early today fled the scene, but left a ladder behind. At 12:43 a.m., a Green Bay police officer was flagged down by a citizen who was driving by and reported seeing someone on a ladder at Green Bay City Hall, 100 N. Jefferson St., taking down a holiday decoration &#8230; The suspect was described as a white male, 5-foot-10 to 6 feet, between 150 and 170 pounds, wearing a gray parka-type jacket and gray hat with ear flaps. The ladder was left at the scene. The wreath was taken down and found behind the shrubs. There was minor damage to the wreath. There was no other damage to the other decorations or the building. This incident remains under investigation.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Luckily the wreath was on top of a roof, so the suspect <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle.html">couldn&#8217;t simply back a truck over it.</a> Perhaps religiously-motivated vandalism is how Green Bay shows how its different from their more cosmopolitan neighbors in Madison and Milwaukee? In any case, it remains to be seen if this incident will affect the decision-making at the special City Council meeting on Tuesday. Will they decide to call the whole thing off <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html">like Olean did?</a></p>
<p><span style="font-weight:bold;">ADDENDUM:</span> Looks like <a href="http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/12565286.html">Green Bay isn&#8217;t handling this situation too well&#8230;</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;In an about face, Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmidt says no one else will be able to put symbols on Green Bay City Hall for right now. The mayor told several people who showed up at City Hall with symbols today that news. Those people weren&#8217;t happy &#8230; One woman who showed up Monday asked how a &#8216;Pagan Pentacle&#8217; ended up on City Hall if she wasn&#8217;t going to be allowed to add her symbol. Another told the mayor if her symbol couldn&#8217;t go up, everything would have to come down &#8230; Mayor Schmidt says until the city council debates the proposed guidelines tomorrow night, the city will not allow new symbols on City Hall.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Looks like a lot of unhappy people will be awaiting the outcome of Tuesday&#8217;s meeting.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/you-saw-this-one-coming.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Return of the Holiday Pentacle Saga!</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/return-of-holiday-pentacle-saga.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/return-of-holiday-pentacle-saga.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Circle Sanctuary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Bay]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nativity Display]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentacle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wisconsin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/return-of-the-holiday-pentacle-saga.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While vandals and controversy may have ended the display of a festive holiday Pentacle in Olean, NY, it looks like the story will continue in Green Bay, Wisconsin.Green Bay employee installing a Wiccan wreath.&#8220;A Wiccan symbol now stands alongside the Christmas manger scene above Green Bay City Hall&#8217;s northwest entrance. The new display is an [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While vandals and controversy may have ended <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html">the display of a festive holiday Pentacle in Olean, NY</a>, it looks like the story <a href="http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071215/GPG0101/712150670/1207/GPGnews">will continue in Green Bay, Wisconsin.</a><br /><center><br /><img src="http://www.wildhunt.org/uploaded_images/wisconsinpent-704601.jpg"><br /><small>Green Bay employee installing a Wiccan wreath.</small><br /></center><br /><i>&#8220;A Wiccan symbol now stands alongside the Christmas manger scene above Green Bay City Hall&#8217;s northwest entrance. The new display is an evergreen wreath, about 3 feet in diameter, around a five-pointed star. It&#8217;s called a pentacle, and it is a symbol in the Wiccan religion, which is associated with witchcraft. Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>This comes after <a href="http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2007/12/green-bay-wisconsin-committee-approves.html">the Green Bay City Council decided to thumb their noses</a> (<span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;tell the Madison people that Madison values need to stay in Madison&#8221;</span>) at the <a href="http://ffrf.org/">Freedom From Religion Foundation</a> for challenging a Nativity display in a small Wisconsin town. In order to maintain a veneer of legality, Green Bay invited other religious groups to contribute their own symbols to the display. <a href="http://www.circlesanctuary.org/gbpentacle/">Nearby Circle Sanctuary</a> (who provided the wreath), is the first to take Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt up on the offer.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;When I learned that Mayor Jim Schmitt publicly invited the contributions of other expressions of faith, I decided that our church should offer to contribute a Yule wreath with pentacle to the holidays display. Our pentacle wreath represents our celebration of Yuletide and the new solar year, and also is part of our observance of Interfaith Awareness Week in Wisconsin which we have been celebrating all week,&#8221;</i> &#8211; <a href="http://www.circlesanctuary.org/gbpentacle/">Rev. Selena Fox, Senior Minister of Circle Sanctuary.</a></p>
<p>The question now is will it stay up? <a href="http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071216/GPG0101/712160725/1207/GPGnews">The Green Bay City Council has scheduled a meeting this coming Tuesday</a> to discuss the resolution installing the Nativity, and if the Council acted properly in approving Council President Chad Fradette&#8217;s request/vendetta. The Freedom From Religion Foundation (which is based in Madison, Wisconsin) says that if the <span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;legally messy situation&#8221;</span> isn&#8217;t cleaned up at Tuesday&#8217;s meeting, <a href="http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071215/GPG0101/712150670/1207/GPGnews">they will bring forth litigation against the city</a>. In the meantime, Hindu, Unitarian-Universalist, and Buddhist groups have all approached Green Bay in order to have their own symbols placed next to the Nativity (requests the City says they have to honor since they haven&#8217;t drawn up any guidelines regarding holiday displays). So it looks like Green Bay will have some interesting times in the coming weeks.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight:bold;">PS</span> &#8211; For a lighter side to the Pentacle/Nativity controversies, the Pagan-themed comic <a href="http://ohmygods.co.uk">&#8220;Oh My Gods&#8221;</a> has released two strips inspired by these recent news events. <a href="http://ohmygods.co.uk/strips/2007-12-13">Part one</a>. <a href="http://ohmygods.co.uk/strips/2007-12-14">Part two.</a><br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/return-of-holiday-pentacle-saga.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Update: The Holiday Pentacle Saga Ends</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nativity Display]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New York]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oleans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentacle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wicca]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-the-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like the saga of a controversial Nativity display in Olean, New York, and the resulting Holiday Pentacle display has come to an end. Just three days after the installation of the Pentacle by a local Wiccan (and one day after it was run over by a truck), Mayor David J. Carucci has decided [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like the saga of a controversial Nativity display in Olean, New York, and <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle.html">the resulting Holiday Pentacle display</a> has come to an end. Just three days after the installation of the Pentacle by a local Wiccan (and one day after it was run over by a truck), Mayor David J. Carucci has <a href="http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/227095.html">decided to re-locate the Nativity to a nearby Baptist Church.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;The battle of the Nativity &#8211; and the pentacle &#8211; came to an end in Olean on Tuesday, at least for now. A day after the large lavender and silver wooden pentacle sign was driven over and later stood back up &#8211; a hole in the front and tire tracks notwithstanding &#8211; the adjacent Nativity scene was moved a block down the street from the City Hall lawn to the front of a Baptist church. Later Wednesday afternoon, John Garlow went to City Hall and removed the pentacle he and his wife, April, had placed there as a Wiccan response to the Nativity scene.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>It looks like <a href="http://www.oleantimesherald.com/articles/2007/11/18/news/doc47367fa068349388639636.txt">a storm of criticism</a>, and <a href="http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=7479158">an investigation into a possible hate-crime</a> were more heat than the defiant Mayor wanted to deal with. Mayor Carucci claims that the incident with the Pentacle was mere vandalism, but John and April Garlow, who erected the Pentacle, <a href="http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/227095.html">claim there were threats made against them.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;Garlow said it had been suggested on Internet message boards that his wife should be beaten &#8230; Shortly after 4 p.m., the battered pentacle was removed by John Garlow, aided by Gan, and strapped to the luggage rack of a station wagon. Passing motorists <span style="font-weight:bold;">offered comments</span> and a woman onlooker, bearing a placard with the words &#8216;God Will Win,&#8217; stood nearby.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Oh, if only the reporter transcribed some of the &#8220;offered comments&#8221;. Does anyone really believe this was random vandalism? For now, at least, it looks like the controversy that started this is over. There is still the matter of catching the &#8220;vandal&#8221; who ran over the Pentacle display, and making sure he is brought to justice. Lets hope the Police follow through on their promise to investigate this as a possible hate crime.</p>
<p>As for the Garlows, I salute their courage and determination. I hope the Pagan community in Olean is rallying around them. While many talk about doing something, they acted and demanded a place at the table. The Garlows have opened a door, and it would be rude of us to refuse to follow when similar situations present themselves.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle-saga-ends.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Update: The Holiday Pentacle</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nativity Display]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New York]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oleans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentacle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wicca]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-the-holiday-pentacle.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks like the press missed a beat here. At the end of November, a Wiccan was granted permission to erect a Pentacle display next to a controversial Nativity display in Olean, NY. I was very excited by this prospect, but the next day the Wiccan in question backed down from erecting the display.
&#8220;April Garlow [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like the press missed a beat here. At the end of November, <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/11/holiday-pentacle.html">a Wiccan was granted permission to erect a Pentacle display</a> next to a controversial Nativity display in Olean, NY. I was very excited by this prospect, but the next day the Wiccan in question <a href="http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=53219&#038;provider=top">backed down from erecting the display.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;April Garlow said she won&#8217;t erect the Wiccan symbol. Garlow made the request after being outraged that the mayor allowed a group to place a nativity scene, a Christian symbol, on the municipal building&#8217;s lawn. &#8220;I couldn&#8217;t believe they would put it on public property. I&#8217;m a homeowner in Olean, I pay taxes,&#8221; Garlow said &#8230; Garlow has said she will not place her Wiccan symbol at the building because of the possibility of lawsuits from outside organizations. Carucci said the offer remains for her and anyone else wishing to display their religious symbols.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>But it seems that Garlow changed her mind, and took Carucci up on his offer, erecting a Pentacle next to the Nativity display last weekend. This development didn&#8217;t make it to the news-wires, <a href="http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--symbolvandalized1211dec11,0,3764475.story">but news has been made again now that the display was destroyed by vandals.</a><br /><center><br /><img src="http://www.wildhunt.org/uploaded_images/7479158_BG1-700056.jpg"><br /><small>The vandalized Pentacle display.</small><br /></center><br /><i>&#8220;Police are investigating vandalism aimed at a symbol of the Wiccan religion set up next to a Nativity scene in front of city hall. Officials in this city 60 miles south of Buffalo say someone in a pickup truck backed over the Wiccan pentacle around 10:15 p.m. Monday, then sped off. The pentacle, a pentagram within a circle, was placed last weekend near the Nativity scene Olean Mayor David Carucci allowed to be set up outside city hall last month.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Looks like some Christians aren&#8217;t as committed to religion in the public square as they claim. I hope the culprit is caught and made to personally restore the symbol, and I hope that every Pagan and Heathen in the Olean area comes forward to erect their own Winter-themed displays. Let the Nativity exist in a sea of religious imagery, or remove it from public property.</p>
<p><b>ADDENDUM:</b> A further report on the incident <a href="http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=7479158">can be found at the WIVB site</a>, including a picture of the Pentacle display.<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/12/update-holiday-pentacle.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>7</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>The Holiday Pentacle</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/11/holiday-pentacle.html</link>
		<comments>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/11/holiday-pentacle.html#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nativity Display]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New York]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Oleans]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Paganism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pentacle]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[War on Christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wicca]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/11/the-holiday-pentacle.html</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Remember my post the other day when I said Pagans should take advantage of public Nativity display clauses allowing for other religions to &#8220;add their symbols&#8221;?
&#8220;The city of Menominee is trying to legally protect itself by having a provision stating that &#8220;non-Christians be allowed to add their symbols&#8221;. I can only hope that this means [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember <a href="http://www.wildhunt.org/2007/11/pagan-news-of-note_25.html">my post the other day</a> when I said Pagans should take advantage of public Nativity display clauses allowing for other religions to &#8220;add their symbols&#8221;?</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The city of Menominee is trying to legally protect itself by having a provision stating that <span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;non-Christians be allowed to add their symbols&#8221;</span>. I can only hope that this means an enterprising Pagan group or two are getting public displays ready to sit next to the nativity scene. What about a baby <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras">Mithras?</a> A <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia">mini-temple to Saturn?</a> How about a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Goat">Yule Goat?</a> Lets get creative here!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Well it looks like some Pagans in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olean,_New_York">Olean, New York</a> (near Buffalo) <a href="http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7419047&#038;nav=menu183_2">have decided to test the waters and do exactly that.</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;The Nativity scene outside a municipal building near Buffalo could soon be sharing space with a Wiccan pentacle. Olean Mayor David Carucci has given a local resident permission to set up a pentacle next to the Nativity scene outside the Olean Municipal Building.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Carucci&#8217;s decision to allow a Pentacle display comes shortly after facing criticism from local Jewish groups for setting up a Christian symbol on municipal property. At the time <a href="http://www.oleantimesherald.com/articles/2007/11/18/news/doc47367fa068349388639636.txt">he made the promise often made</a> after a controversial religious display is placed on public property:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Mayor Carucci, who is Christian, said any other religious group is also welcome to put a display outside the City Building. He said he decided to allow the Nativity, which depicts the birth of Jesus Christ, after a group of private individuals asked him for permission to put it up.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>So now Carucci&#8217;s convictions will be put to the test, and a holiday-themed Pentacle symbol will be placed next to the Nativity. One wonders how passerby will know it is Pagan, <a href="http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&#038;q=Christmas+star&#038;um=1&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;sa=N&#038;tab=wi">since Christmas stars are often portrayed as five-pointed.</a> Will there be other elements? Maybe they should have gone with <a href="http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/12/12_cunninghamg_swedishxmas/">the giant Yule goat</a> instead. But since this is a Wiccan display it leaves openings for Asatru and other Pagan faiths to stake out a piece of municipal land as well. Lets see a plethora of (Pagan) holiday religious displays! </p>
<p><b>UPDATE:</b> The Wiccan who got permission to erect the holiday Pentacle display <a href="http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=53219&#038;provider=top">is backing down from doing so</a>, due to fear of litigation.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Despite getting the mayor&#8217;s permission to place a pentacle at Olean&#8217;s City Hall, April Garlow said she won&#8217;t erect the Wiccan symbol. Garlow made the request after being outraged that the mayor allowed a group to place a nativity scene, a Christian symbol, on the municipal building&#8217;s lawn &#8230; Garlow has said she will not place her Wiccan symbol at the building because of the possibility of lawsuits from outside organizations. Carucci said the offer remains for her and anyone else wishing to display their religious symbols.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>She does realize that any litigation would most likely be aimed at the City right? This is disappointing, I want my Pagan Winter Festival display! Come on Olean Pagans, step up!<br />
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/11/holiday-pentacle.html/feed</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.497 seconds -->
