Comments on: The “New Religion’s” Crusade Against Art http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:14:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Setanta http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6599 Setanta Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:04:43 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6599 I'm going to begin with stating that yes, I am an enemy of christ. Looking at what christianity has done and continues to do to culture around the world it's a wonder that there are not more that despise their doctrine. I will continue with stating that no, I am not a Satanist, just a very angry "Heretic". I am Celtic-Norse, and proud of it. I have a very special place in my heart for the Afrikaan Loas, one of my good friends is devout Vodun, so hearing that the witch hunts have not ceased is quite disheartening. I'm not commenting on this to spout my own personal hate messages against christianity (even though hard as I try some might still get through). Waiting for Christian Fanaticism to die down cost the sons of the north countless lives and a religion that died everywhere but in the hearts of the "Heretics", only now has it been able to spring back legally. A different culture should not be pressed upon someone who already has one. I'm going to begin with stating that yes, I am an enemy of christ. Looking at what christianity has done and continues to do to culture around the world it's a wonder that there are not more that despise their doctrine.
I will continue with stating that no, I am not a Satanist, just a very angry "Heretic". I am Celtic-Norse, and proud of it.
I have a very special place in my heart for the Afrikaan Loas, one of my good friends is devout Vodun, so hearing that the witch hunts have not ceased is quite disheartening. I'm not commenting on this to spout my own personal hate messages against christianity (even though hard as I try some might still get through). Waiting for Christian Fanaticism to die down cost the sons of the north countless lives and a religion that died everywhere but in the hearts of the "Heretics", only now has it been able to spring back legally. A different culture should not be pressed upon someone who already has one.

]]> By: FrauKlug http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6383 FrauKlug Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:34:18 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6383 I agree that there is financial, and political motivation for what's going on in Nigeria. Send in the missionaries, and then take the land. Divide and conquer. It's far more involved than that of course, it's horrific, and sad what's happening in Africa. Fear and hatred driven like a wedge through the heart of a culture. Reading this story started me thinking about the conversion of European cultures to christianity. How it happened,and why. I know people converted of their own free will, but not everyone did. Families torn a apart, communities divided, your religion declared "evil" and all you knew and held fast to declared forbidden. Cultural treasures burned, temples torn down, holy groves cut down.. Convert or lose you community, family, land or life. Religious fervor fueled by propaganda and fear. What was once holy and good is now called evil? How many great works of sacred art were lost to us due to religious zealotry? How many songs? I agree that there is financial, and political motivation for what's going on in Nigeria. Send in the missionaries, and then take the land. Divide and conquer. It's far more involved than that of course, it's horrific, and sad what's happening in Africa. Fear and hatred driven like a wedge through the heart of a culture.
Reading this story started me thinking about the conversion of European cultures to christianity. How it happened,and why. I know people converted of their own free will, but not everyone did.

Families torn a apart, communities divided, your religion declared "evil" and all you knew and held fast to declared forbidden. Cultural treasures burned, temples torn down, holy groves cut down.. Convert or lose you community, family, land or life. Religious fervor fueled by propaganda and fear. What was once holy and good is now called evil? How many great works of sacred art were lost to us due to religious zealotry? How many songs?

]]> By: Labrys http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6351 Labrys Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:33:05 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6351 You called it---the Dominionists pretty much believe in taking over, by any and all means. They have their fingers in every money pie; they are evangelizing in the US military and their "chosen men" are young (and older) trained officers who weed out those who do not fall into line. They WANT war and destruction; they believe they can basically force the Apocalypse to begin and make the alleged rapture occur. Myself? I don't believe deities can be blackmailed----but the earth and her peoples? Yes, that they can screw to a fare-thee-well. Stopping fundamentalism in religion is not a priority to most folks---they optimistically believe it will run out of steam. It will not, it is a hidden undercurrent of hatred and destruction. You called it—the Dominionists pretty much believe in taking over, by any and all means. They have their fingers in every money pie; they are evangelizing in the US military and their "chosen men" are young (and older) trained officers who weed out those who do not fall into line. They WANT war and destruction; they believe they can basically force the Apocalypse to begin and make the alleged rapture occur. Myself? I don't believe deities can be blackmailed—-but the earth and her peoples? Yes, that they can screw to a fare-thee-well. Stopping fundamentalism in religion is not a priority to most folks—they optimistically believe it will run out of steam. It will not, it is a hidden undercurrent of hatred and destruction.

]]> By: Joseph http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6349 Joseph Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:29:16 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6349 The parallels with the Taliban --who destroyed "idols" such as those maginificent Buddha statues during their reign-- are striking. The parallels with the Taliban –who destroyed "idols" such as those maginificent Buddha statues during their reign– are striking.

]]> By: Pitch313 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6346 Pitch313 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:10:43 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6346 A major stream of today's evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity is dominated by some sort of literalist dark occultism, Not only is the Bible regarded as "true" word for word, but also many dark occult tests and items of lore are regarded as "true." A sculpture of an individual might, to my eyes, appear "demonic." But I would not imagine that such a sculpture was actually inhabited by a literal demon. A major stream of today's evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity is dominated by some sort of literalist dark occultism, Not only is the Bible regarded as "true" word for word, but also many dark occult tests and items of lore are regarded as "true." A sculpture of an individual might, to my eyes, appear "demonic." But I would not imagine that such a sculpture was actually inhabited by a literal demon.

]]> By: William Clements http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6339 William Clements Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:21:01 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6339 Interesting to note that Pat Robertson's diamond mining operations are centered in Nigeria. Interesting to note that Pat Robertson's diamond mining operations are centered in Nigeria.

]]> By: Snoozepossum http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6334 Snoozepossum Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:39:27 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6334 Dominionist dogma makes a roomy, convenient chassis with plenty of horsepower, but politics and money are sitting in the driver's seat of the whole mess. The common saying of per people who are at ground zero is "If you want to get rich quick in Africa, start a church". Dominionist dogma makes a roomy, convenient chassis with plenty of horsepower, but politics and money are sitting in the driver's seat of the whole mess. The common saying of per people who are at ground zero is "If you want to get rich quick in Africa, start a church".

]]> By: Stacey http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6323 Stacey Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:57:21 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6323 That's a really interesting quote: "Christianity has destroyed our culture . . . Christianity cannot compete with our ancestors. Your god is impotent against Shango . . . " (Don't misunderstand me: I am in Lukumi, and am totally in love with Shango!). I'm fascinated by the speaker's assertion that the same preachers who thunder from the pulpits come to him to speak with their forefathers. Christianity in Africa is nothing new; the Kongo kingdom became Catholic (under economic pressure from the Portuguese, yes) in the 16th century. I'm mentioning this because I'm coming to believe that what's going on in Nigeria may be more complicated than what gets reported in the West. (Note for the irate and easily angered: I am not defending Christianity, I am not condoning child torture, and I am not defending wingnuts. I am just saying there may be more going on than meets the Western eye at the moment.) It looks like the Niger Delta, where Helen Ukpabio (for one) operates, is also full of oil money, political corruption, and militia violence over said oil money and political corruption. Your mileage may vary, but that makes me think there may be more tensions at work on the communities there than *just* rabid Pentecostals vs. traditionalists. If I'm right, only addressing witch hunts may not do much to stop them. And if I'm right, the traditional Nigerian religions may be more resilient than we fear. (They did survive the Middle Passage and the brutality of the sugar plantations . . . ) That's a really interesting quote: "Christianity has destroyed our culture . . . Christianity cannot compete with our ancestors. Your god is impotent against Shango . . . " (Don't misunderstand me: I am in Lukumi, and am totally in love with Shango!). I'm fascinated by the speaker's assertion that the same preachers who thunder from the pulpits come to him to speak with their forefathers. Christianity in Africa is nothing new; the Kongo kingdom became Catholic (under economic pressure from the Portuguese, yes) in the 16th century. I'm mentioning this because I'm coming to believe that what's going on in Nigeria may be more complicated than what gets reported in the West. (Note for the irate and easily angered: I am not defending Christianity, I am not condoning child torture, and I am not defending wingnuts. I am just saying there may be more going on than meets the Western eye at the moment.)

It looks like the Niger Delta, where Helen Ukpabio (for one) operates, is also full of oil money, political corruption, and militia violence over said oil money and political corruption. Your mileage may vary, but that makes me think there may be more tensions at work on the communities there than *just* rabid Pentecostals vs. traditionalists. If I'm right, only addressing witch hunts may not do much to stop them.

And if I'm right, the traditional Nigerian religions may be more resilient than we fear. (They did survive the Middle Passage and the brutality of the sugar plantations . . . )

]]> By: Harmony http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6327 Harmony Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:01:02 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6327 Good point - anything we Westerners hear reported from overseas is going to be only part of the entire, complex cultural picture, and we need to keep that in mind as we come up with ideas for how to preserve indigenous cultures and protect the lives and well-being of the victims of zealous religious persecution. Knee-jerk emotional reactions and hasty 'band-aid' actions are never permanent solutions. If the Nigerians are turning to this type of Christianity because it seduced them with offers of security in a time of upheaval, as it sounds like is the case, they won't be the first people to do so in history, and unfortunately without better education probably won't be the last. I think as a community, Pagans need first to support an effort to stop the killings right now, as a human rights initiative, then work to learn the factors involved in the Nigerians' situation and come up with socioeconomic ways to alleviate the causes of distress that led to the trouble in the first place. We can point fingers and cry blame at the 'bad, evil Christians' all we want, but the truth is if we as a human family hadn't let the situation in Africa deteriorate while we either lounge about with our hi-def TVs, high speed Internet, cell phones, and iPods, or burn oil with our gas-guzzling SUVs (okay, but even Priuses use SOME gas, folks!) as we dash about shopping at the big-box stores sipping our Starbucks lattes, the Nigerians wouldn't have been in a vulnerable position for the Christians to swoop in and take advantage of in the first place. We dropped the ball, now we need to pick it back up, if we can. Good point – anything we Westerners hear reported from overseas is going to be only part of the entire, complex cultural picture, and we need to keep that in mind as we come up with ideas for how to preserve indigenous cultures and protect the lives and well-being of the victims of zealous religious persecution. Knee-jerk emotional reactions and hasty 'band-aid' actions are never permanent solutions. If the Nigerians are turning to this type of Christianity because it seduced them with offers of security in a time of upheaval, as it sounds like is the case, they won't be the first people to do so in history, and unfortunately without better education probably won't be the last.

I think as a community, Pagans need first to support an effort to stop the killings right now, as a human rights initiative, then work to learn the factors involved in the Nigerians' situation and come up with socioeconomic ways to alleviate the causes of distress that led to the trouble in the first place. We can point fingers and cry blame at the 'bad, evil Christians' all we want, but the truth is if we as a human family hadn't let the situation in Africa deteriorate while we either lounge about with our hi-def TVs, high speed Internet, cell phones, and iPods, or burn oil with our gas-guzzling SUVs (okay, but even Priuses use SOME gas, folks!) as we dash about shopping at the big-box stores sipping our Starbucks lattes, the Nigerians wouldn't have been in a vulnerable position for the Christians to swoop in and take advantage of in the first place. We dropped the ball, now we need to pick it back up, if we can.

]]> By: Riverbend http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/11/the-new-religions-crusade-against-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-6316 Riverbend Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:28:13 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/?p=3774#comment-6316 Ok, I learned a lot from this one in addition to my usual "holy sh*t here go the wingnuts again" response...I'd never heard of Nollywood and had no idea there was such a thing as the "Osun-Osogbo Sacred Grove," which as a Druid who's interested in Yoruba religion (since it's had an influence on were I live) I was thrilled to discover. Thanks as always guys. Ok, I learned a lot from this one in addition to my usual "holy sh*t here go the wingnuts again" response…I'd never heard of Nollywood and had no idea there was such a thing as the "Osun-Osogbo Sacred Grove," which as a Druid who's interested in Yoruba religion (since it's had an influence on were I live) I was thrilled to discover. Thanks as always guys.

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