Update: Christian-Pagan Dialogue and Pessimism
My recent post on skepticism and pessimism regarding Pagan-Christian dialogue has spurred some thoughtful responses from Pagan and Christian bloggers. First, Erynn Rowan Laurie (author of “Ogam: Weaving Word Wisdom”) says that a certain amount of skepticism is only natural in exchanges between Christians and Pagans.
“…an underlying theme of much specifically Christian-Pagan dialogue is a general Christian desire to spread the faith. I know a lot of Christians and they’re good folks and they don’t give me any trouble about being Pagan nor do they try to convert me. But the fact remains that motives in Christian interfaith dialogue often tend to boil down to learning about other faiths so that arguments can be prepared for use in attempts at conversion … Given this attitude, I think it’s only natural and right that Pagans should approach such dialogue with a certain amount of skepticism and even cynicism. I am by no means saying that we should not have these discussions. I do think they’re vitally necessary in reducing inter-religious tensions and fostering understandings between communities. Yet I believe we need to go into these discussions with our eyes open, understanding that there are some very likely ulterior motives in many who would engage with us.”
Meanwhile John Morehead, editor of the book “Beyond the Burning Times: A Pagan and Christian in Dialogue”, weighs in with his own thoughts on the issue and disagrees with the notion that Christians don’t “get” modern Paganism.
“I respectfully disagree with the sentiments expressed by Chas Clifton in his comments on Strange Onion Peeling. There are Christians who are making a good effort at understanding Paganism, including the aspects he specifically mentions. Therefore, we do “get it,” even though we have a long way to go in our understanding. And we are not attempting to understand just enough of Paganism to combine it with a nicer approach in order to convert people. Yes, we feel an obligation to be obedient to Jesus’ command to “make disciples,” and in so doing share the pathway of Jesus when it is appropriate and desired, but we do not view people as mere objects for evangelism. There is a far broader agenda at work here. To assume otherwise perpetuates the stereotypes we desperately need to move beyond.”
Morehead has suggested holding a “public Pagan-Christian dialogue at an educational institution in the near future” in order to discuss some of these issues and ideally move beyond some of the inherent skepticism found in these dialogues. I think such a move could be a good step forward, depending on the participants involved. For more conversation on this issue, check out the comments section of my original post, and the comments on the Strange Onion Peelings blog.
24 responses so far
To John Morehead:
If that is true than more of you need to speak up because the voices that are only seeking to convert us are drowning you out.
It is not our role as pagans to define how you are represented in the discussions between Pagans and Chritians.
Jason — thanks for writing things that I can compose interesting responses to!
There’s so much room out there between “convert them all” and “we shouldn’t bother even talking with them.” It behooves us as conscientious citizens of the same planet to build some bridges and to at least try offering the benefit of the doubt. Even if the handshake is a little suspicious at first, it has more option of becoming genuine friendship than turning one’s back instead.
I’ll repeat what I said.
I don’t want to talk to them. I was raised among them and they’ve hurt me enough with their anti-woman religion.
I want them to leave me the fuck alone and get their paws off my government. My womb. My life. The Air Force Academy. America’s public education system. I don’t have “dialogues” with people who want to burn me at the stake.
Hecate — Nobody says you have to personally engage in dialogue with anyone. Please, by all means, leave it to those people who are interested in such things.
At the risk of repeating what has already been said many times in other places, the conservative Evangelicals whose behaviors we repeatedly complain of do not represent a majority of Christians, even in the United States. It is possible to have meaningful dialogue with Christians. But not if we simply dismiss the possibility entirely because we are projecting the behaviors of an annoyingly vociferous minority onto the entire Christian community.
I think one of the biggest troubles is that for many Christians, “dialogue” does not actually mean interfaith understanding, but rather, a means to eventually convert the Pagans.
My father works with an Interfaith group in Honolulu consisting of Unitarians, Methodists and Buddhists, among others.
It may be a matter of which particular churches/denominations are involved.
Um, Nyctotherion, in my experience the churches/denominations involved is not particularly pertinant. An increasing number of Christians consider themselves transdenominational, and at times the diversity within denominations can be as significant as the diversity between denominations. I happen to be Baptist but as far as Im concerned Baptists distinctives have little bearing on the discussions we are having here. I happen to be a personal friend of John Morehead, have known him for years, have participated in interfaith discussion with him, yet I honestly don’t remember what denomination he belongs to. That should be an indicator for you. The important issues are not denominational ones.
I guess this just goes to show: sometimes it's good to not be the government.
Amen. Can I have a witness?
To what you and Hylomorphic say, I am interested in the divergent ways Pagans and Christians view Jesus.
That is a very interesting and different perspective that I will be considering all weekend, at least.
BTW, the fundamentalists of whom you speak consider Catholics to be more Pagan than Christian–praying to the Mother of God and all that.
These assertions are really aside from the point. I see no Vikings here.
*growls of hunger*
Actually, I didn't think this was a waste of time. I learned a great deal. I hope I didn't waste your time,
It might be added that the Goths and Vandals who invaded the Western Empire in the 5th Century and famously sacked Rome were Arian Christians.
Truly, I never thought about that. More homework for me….
I eventually caught on that they were messing with me. Leo famelicus=ravening lion. ha ha.
I know you have been persecuted. That's why I take whatever opportunities I can to set fellow Christians straight about Paganism.
Sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying here. Could you please clarify?
I understand you now. And I don't think of my view of witches as seductive (Hecate really turned me off!), but I understand what you mean about kids acting things out.
And I'm definitely not range fed beef!
*wink.* *Poly* theism. There's more to it than some idea of …. lots of small monotheisms?