Comments on: An Ethical Lapse of the Online Pagan Community?

By: avinriver

avinriver — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 03:23:00 +0000

Hello all,
First, she was not “rescuing” the monkey. Monkeys would not be captured and held in cruel conditions if they could not be sold to Westerners. Second, as a responsible citizen if you hear of an illegal act over a board you should report it to the owners of the board (they have the best chance of knowing the poster’s real name and forwarding that name to the police). Third, as a Pagans who draw energy from and worship the wonderful and awe-inspiring world created for us by the God(s) and Goddess(es) we should never encourage an act of animal cruelty (which this is, and is even posted under that heading at SkyNews where the original story came from). In my life I have noticed that Pagans often operate outside of social boundaries, which is of no consequence when we are following a differing set of values derived from the worship of an earth-based religion, but can become a problem when a minority of Pagans start to slide morally on the idea of living outside the law (drugs, etc.). I have come into contact with some Pagans who have the most outlandish of morals (sex with minors, using magic to wish injury or death upon others, etc.). Personally I have a strict set of magical ethics but I know others may not be as strict and that’s okay with me up to a point. I often get folks who want to be taught magic and when they find out the rules they are let down. A certain base level of morality should be shared by humans living in a group. For most these are “laws” and with a small exception of prejudicial and unfair laws they should be followed. We as Pagans must follow a higher standard that allows for our place as keepers of the natural world around us and the energies that flow in it.
Blessed Be.

By: digital-dharma.net

digital-dharma.net — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:59:00 +0000

Since Rhesus are given to throwing excrement and public masturbation, it’s sort of a shame she didn’t have a chance to appreciate her choices more, before the creature was rescued.

As to the online nonsense, people who believe such things are possible can hardly be held responsible for weak thinking in other areas.

By: Alice

Alice — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:09:00 +0000

OK first I would like to point out that their is no way of knowing if a person online is telling the truth. I mean that you don’t really know if they are telling the truth or just trying to get attention!!!! Yes agreeing to send help was not the best way to respond. Also can you think how the phone cal would work.
(hello is this the police I have a read on a message bored that someone is going to try to smuggle in a monkey from thiailand.
no i don’t know them in person where do they live a I am not sure somewhere in such in such state) what i am saying is on the internet you don’t really know if their info is true and even if it is how much do you really put on it. Not that some one cannot be found but by the time that happens their is a monkey here already. Did anyone ever think that what was sent was for the monkey to end up safe and in the end a pagan group she bragged to did that. Isn’t that how it usually works in a natural way?

By: nefaeria

nefaeria — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:35:00 +0000

I personally don’t see Pagans being held to the same ethical/moral code(s), as we are a diverse lot. However, I would hope that any decent person would have done the right thing and thought of the animal she was smuggling, not helping this idiot in her dirty work!

What this woman and others were thinking (or not!) is beyond me. Thanks for sharing the story.

Slàinte!

Laurel

By: ofthespiae

ofthespiae — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:24:00 +0000

It’s likely that the list was deleted by Yahoo, themselves, and not the list oweners. It’s a direct violation of Yahoo’s ToS for users to allow certain services to support or encourage criminal activities. Say the woman in question *did*, in fact, make a plea for energy on that list specifically for monkey-smuggling, unless the list owners deleted her post (and presumably warned her never to do it again) certain yahoo community administrators would view that as a direct violation of those clauses in their ToS and delete the whole list. It’s not fair, or even necessary, in some cases, but I know for a fact that similar has happened before.

By: Livia Indica

Livia Indica — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:22:00 +0000

Just to play devil’s advocate: I wonder if, by some chance, she was trying to save the critter from a worse fate?

By: Carol Maltby

Carol Maltby — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:23:00 +0000

Note the choice of words –the articles refer to her “allegedly” (in the indictment) or “reportedly” (regarding the conviction) emailed the Yahoo group.

Both Lawson and her mother were convicted on smuggling and conspiracy charges. Her boyfriend did a plea bargain and testified against her.

Perhaps the email was tied in in an attempt to get addition conspirators. It would have to be called “alleged” before a conviction. I wonder if the
reportedly” means they weren’t able to prove she sent it (Shared computer? Posting deleted by moderators?)

By: Jason Pitzl-Waters

Jason Pitzl-Waters — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:42:00 +0000

If she just said she was going through tough times, why would law enforcement cite the message at all? I mean, I’m as skeptical as the next person, but I can’t imagine they would mention the posting if it didn’t have some bearing on the case (which ended up in a conviction).

By: Ben Gruagach

Ben Gruagach — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:02:00 +0000

Without actually reading the email list’s archives, it’s hard to know that the smuggler actually talked openly about planning to commit a crime.

I’ve been on lots of messageboards and lists where people will say they are “going through some tough times” and ask for positive thoughts to be sent their ways. How do we know this wasn’t the case here?

By: Jason Pitzl-Waters

Jason Pitzl-Waters — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:47:00 +0000

Erynn,

I’m not saying the “majority” was guilty, I’m asking why not even a single person on the list thought to report it? Further, the indictment alleges she specifically asked this group for magical help in her monkey-smuggling, otherwise why would the indictment even mention it?

I’m not “up in arms”, I’m not persecuting anyone. I’m asking questions, and hoping for answers.