Comments on: Is Goddess Religion Still Pagan? http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:38:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-2081 Anonymous Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:37:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-2081 Very interesting... Very interesting…

]]> By: Brian Charles http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-2056 Brian Charles Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:11:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-2056 Several good points made here and i can see that as an umbrella term it is probably one that will stay for a while. I suppose one of my objections is summed up by Crystal Phoenix when she says "God and Goddess" since i do not place Goddess at the centre and do not see any need to have any god there. Goddessian - clumsy as it is - is far more accurate since it does not contain the assumption that a god is part of practice. As for Cynthia Eller, Noinden, I have read her and it is a fairly shoddy piece of scholarship - see Max Dashu http://www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/eller2.html for an indepth dissection. Several good points made here and i can see that as an umbrella term it is probably one that will stay for a while. I suppose one of my objections is summed up by Crystal Phoenix when she says “God and Goddess” since i do not place Goddess at the centre and do not see any need to have any god there. Goddessian – clumsy as it is – is far more accurate since it does not contain the assumption that a god is part of practice. As for Cynthia Eller, Noinden, I have read her and it is a fairly shoddy piece of scholarship – see Max Dashu http://www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/eller2.html for an indepth dissection.

]]> By: Crystal Phoenix http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-2006 Crystal Phoenix Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:37:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-2006 The word Pagan is used to define anyone who is not xian, jew or muslim. If that is true, then the Goddessians are definately Pagan. The larger issue, I think, is our continuing to unite as a community for the sake of our rights to practice our belief systems from those who would like to see us gone. After all, how many sub-cultures exist under the umbrella of Christianity? Why is it so easy for them to unite but we continue to bicker? If you love God and Goddess then you're my kin. Blessings to all! The word Pagan is used to define anyone who is not xian, jew or muslim. If that is true, then the Goddessians are definately Pagan. The larger issue, I think, is our continuing to unite as a community for the sake of our rights to practice our belief systems from those who would like to see us gone. After all, how many sub-cultures exist under the umbrella of Christianity? Why is it so easy for them to unite but we continue to bicker? If you love God and Goddess then you’re my kin. Blessings to all!

]]> By: Noinden http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1997 Noinden Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:13:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1997 Oh FFS,<br/><br/>It’s still ok to beat up on the male pagans? Without Gardner, Sanders (Shudder) and Ross, there would be very little in the way of a coherent Pagan, and thus Goddess movement out there. Sure two of the thee I mentioned could be called ‘dirty old men”, but they also were most certainly not Patriarchalistic and led the Pagan movement (yes including the Goddess sub set) down the path it’s now been on for about 50 years.<br/><br/>If they don’t want to identify with Neopagans, bully for them, but I see more anti male attitude (Matriarchal miss deeds?) than anti female. Sure there are male only groups out there (the Radical Fae for example) they like hard core Goddess followers are … rare.<br/><br/>My (proto)Grove actually currently only has one male, me, and a three women. But we most certainly make sure that we have both genders covered. I’m only “senior” Druid because well I am the older, more experienced ADF member in the Grove. Does this make us Patriarchal? <br/><br/>I recommend these worry worts read Cynthia Eller’s “Myth of the Matriarchal Prehistory” then talk. A women wrote it not a man :)<br/><br/>Ok rant aside. It is really up to the path to decide if the identify what they are. Celtic Reconstructionists and Gaelic Traditionalists are not (by their words not definition) Neopagan, same goes for Asatruar (they are Heathens), they by practice however are still in the same religious subset.<br/><br/>Good luck to the ladies. Oh FFS,

It’s still ok to beat up on the male pagans? Without Gardner, Sanders (Shudder) and Ross, there would be very little in the way of a coherent Pagan, and thus Goddess movement out there. Sure two of the thee I mentioned could be called ‘dirty old men”, but they also were most certainly not Patriarchalistic and led the Pagan movement (yes including the Goddess sub set) down the path it’s now been on for about 50 years.

If they don’t want to identify with Neopagans, bully for them, but I see more anti male attitude (Matriarchal miss deeds?) than anti female. Sure there are male only groups out there (the Radical Fae for example) they like hard core Goddess followers are … rare.

My (proto)Grove actually currently only has one male, me, and a three women. But we most certainly make sure that we have both genders covered. I’m only “senior” Druid because well I am the older, more experienced ADF member in the Grove. Does this make us Patriarchal?

I recommend these worry worts read Cynthia Eller’s “Myth of the Matriarchal Prehistory” then talk. A women wrote it not a man :)

Ok rant aside. It is really up to the path to decide if the identify what they are. Celtic Reconstructionists and Gaelic Traditionalists are not (by their words not definition) Neopagan, same goes for Asatruar (they are Heathens), they by practice however are still in the same religious subset.

Good luck to the ladies.

]]> By: Glenys Livingstone http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1981 Glenys Livingstone Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:38:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1981 I would hope that what Pagans may share in common is "dwelling in country" meaning that Pagans in general know where they are - the "country" these days being in the Cosmos, related to Earth, Sun and Moon. We don't have to keep going back to what "country" meant to to snobs in the middle ages. We may have our own renewed understandings of what is meant by "country". Australian indigenous people use the term often to refer to their Place - which is always sacred. And the indigenous people of Europe held the Land itself as sacred -the Land itself/Herself was held sacred. we are all indigenous to this Earth and Cosmos, and may hold it as sacred. That is what Pagans may hold in common. And thus, a Pagan knows more clearly WHO they are - essentially: that we are this Place. And note the female metaphor for the Land ... no problem really. Some don't need the word "Goddess" but our culture and language is a problem right now ... having been such a patriarchal context for so long in many quarters. And it doesn't really have to have a gender but many like to acknowledge their Navel origins ... "Mother" is more a statement of fact of origins than it is a gender thing.<br/><br/>My tuppence worth here ... now I am off to Medusa Coils. There is more of my take on this whole thing at my site too: this page happens to be relevant http://pagaian.org/news/sacred-image-july-moon<br/>Glenys<br/>http://pagaian.org I would hope that what Pagans may share in common is “dwelling in country” meaning that Pagans in general know where they are – the “country” these days being in the Cosmos, related to Earth, Sun and Moon. We don’t have to keep going back to what “country” meant to to snobs in the middle ages. We may have our own renewed understandings of what is meant by “country”. Australian indigenous people use the term often to refer to their Place – which is always sacred. And the indigenous people of Europe held the Land itself as sacred -the Land itself/Herself was held sacred. we are all indigenous to this Earth and Cosmos, and may hold it as sacred. That is what Pagans may hold in common. And thus, a Pagan knows more clearly WHO they are – essentially: that we are this Place. And note the female metaphor for the Land … no problem really. Some don’t need the word “Goddess” but our culture and language is a problem right now … having been such a patriarchal context for so long in many quarters. And it doesn’t really have to have a gender but many like to acknowledge their Navel origins … “Mother” is more a statement of fact of origins than it is a gender thing.

My tuppence worth here … now I am off to Medusa Coils. There is more of my take on this whole thing at my site too: this page happens to be relevant http://pagaian.org/news/sacred-image-july-moon
Glenys
http://pagaian.org

]]> By: Robin Edgar http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1980 Robin Edgar Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:04:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1980 "So, no, it is not and never has been an appropriate term for non-Christian."<br/><br/>Well Christians, to say nothing of Muslims, seemed to think that "pagan" was quite an appropriate term and used it quite liberally. ;-) “So, no, it is not and never has been an appropriate term for non-Christian.”

Well Christians, to say nothing of Muslims, seemed to think that “pagan” was quite an appropriate term and used it quite liberally. ;-)

]]> By: Jordan Stratford+ http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1979 Jordan Stratford+ Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:11:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1979 <i>the original Latin term simply meant "villager" or a rural resident</i><br/><br/>Unfortunately the etymology is not so polite. It is first recorded as a derogatory term by the Roman army referring not just to "villagers" but the unbathed illiterate masses beyond the pale, deliberately implying what we would later call "rednecks" or "hicks". So, no, it is not and never has been an appropriate term for non-Christian.<br/><br/>Regardless, with the codification of the field of "Pagan" Studies, we're stuck with the thing. And sure, I'll get over it, but we should still be cautious of historical revisionism. the original Latin term simply meant “villager” or a rural resident

Unfortunately the etymology is not so polite. It is first recorded as a derogatory term by the Roman army referring not just to “villagers” but the unbathed illiterate masses beyond the pale, deliberately implying what we would later call “rednecks” or “hicks”. So, no, it is not and never has been an appropriate term for non-Christian.

Regardless, with the codification of the field of “Pagan” Studies, we’re stuck with the thing. And sure, I’ll get over it, but we should still be cautious of historical revisionism.

]]> By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1976 Anonymous Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:05:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1976 I must disagree with Jordan. The word "Paganism" is less awkward (one less syllable) than the word "Christianity." As for being inaccurate, unwieldy and historically unpleasant, the original Latin term simply meant "villager" or a rural resident, like "heathen," now worn like a badge of honor by followers of Asatru. The rural people were harder to assimilate into the new religion. This led to the word's shift in meaning in Medieval Latin to mean "followers of false gods.<br/>So historically speaking, anyone who is not a Christian can be described as "pagan." For my part, I am not embarrassed to call myself a pagan. But since this is just a label, if goddess followers don't want to be labelled "pagan," we should respect their wishes. Personally, I am working toward the day when we don't need labels at all & we all respect each other's beliefs. Blessed be.<br/>...Olytanis I must disagree with Jordan. The word “Paganism” is less awkward (one less syllable) than the word “Christianity.” As for being inaccurate, unwieldy and historically unpleasant, the original Latin term simply meant “villager” or a rural resident, like “heathen,” now worn like a badge of honor by followers of Asatru. The rural people were harder to assimilate into the new religion. This led to the word’s shift in meaning in Medieval Latin to mean “followers of false gods.
So historically speaking, anyone who is not a Christian can be described as “pagan.” For my part, I am not embarrassed to call myself a pagan. But since this is just a label, if goddess followers don’t want to be labelled “pagan,” we should respect their wishes. Personally, I am working toward the day when we don’t need labels at all & we all respect each other’s beliefs. Blessed be.
…Olytanis

]]> By: Bo http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1975 Bo Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:19:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1975 'Goddessians' is an achingly ugly word! ‘Goddessians’ is an achingly ugly word!

]]> By: Robin Edgar http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html/comment-page-1#comment-1974 Robin Edgar Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:44:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/07/is-goddess-religion-still-pagan.html#comment-1974 So is Mariolatry considered to be a form of Goddess worship? ;-) So is Mariolatry considered to be a form of Goddess worship? ;-)

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