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	<title>Comments on: Code Pink Makes Some See Red</title>
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		<title>By: Lonnie</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1669</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1669</guid>
		<description>Hey Carol, thanks for chiming in and adding some context to the situation.  You make a good point, and besides this is from Fox, so I suspect the &quot;outrage&quot; is perhaps a bit overstated anyway...    &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Basically, they were probably lacking in news stories that night and thought it&#039;d be a good filler in their continued spirit of poking fun at liberals.  (Wow, war protesters in Berkeley? Shocking!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Carol, thanks for chiming in and adding some context to the situation.  You make a good point, and besides this is from Fox, so I suspect the &#8220;outrage&#8221; is perhaps a bit overstated anyway&#8230;    </p>
<p>Basically, they were probably lacking in news stories that night and thought it&#8217;d be a good filler in their continued spirit of poking fun at liberals.  (Wow, war protesters in Berkeley? Shocking!)</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Maltby</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Maltby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1668</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d caution against making this a bigger deal than it already has been. Blogging theatre is just as much about making symbolic gestures and noise as any street protest. The puppets are just smaller, and in a different medium than papier mache.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A bit of context might help. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The Marine recruiting station in Berkeley (a first in that city, I believe) has been there for little over a year. They do not have the support of the Berkeley City Council or many residents, and the Council have given Code Pink a dedicated parking spot in front of the office. In choosing to locate their office close to the high school and university, the Marines may have deliberately picked a provocative location. They seem to be satisfied that the protesting has actually suited their needs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Code Pink has been protesting there every weekend, and many week days, for over 6 monthes. They&#039;ve often held themed protests, the theme in question being just one of them. Conservative activists like Malkin and Morgan hold themed protests in return, in that age-old dance where &quot;Look at ME! Listen to ME!&quot; is the primary battle.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s not a &quot;witch war,&quot; and with all the institutionalized stereotypes of all sorts that truly oppress people, an ephemeral street theatre&lt;br/&gt;piece is truly not worth giving much time and energy to.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Republican protesters against Code Pink have used salt and brooms in their own co-optation of our imagery. Presumably none of them are witches (unlike some Code Pink members), so let&#039;s spread the outrage (or at least blustery grumbling) evenly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d caution against making this a bigger deal than it already has been. Blogging theatre is just as much about making symbolic gestures and noise as any street protest. The puppets are just smaller, and in a different medium than papier mache.</p>
<p>A bit of context might help. </p>
<p>The Marine recruiting station in Berkeley (a first in that city, I believe) has been there for little over a year. They do not have the support of the Berkeley City Council or many residents, and the Council have given Code Pink a dedicated parking spot in front of the office. In choosing to locate their office close to the high school and university, the Marines may have deliberately picked a provocative location. They seem to be satisfied that the protesting has actually suited their needs.</p>
<p>Code Pink has been protesting there every weekend, and many week days, for over 6 monthes. They&#8217;ve often held themed protests, the theme in question being just one of them. Conservative activists like Malkin and Morgan hold themed protests in return, in that age-old dance where &#8220;Look at ME! Listen to ME!&#8221; is the primary battle.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a &#8220;witch war,&#8221; and with all the institutionalized stereotypes of all sorts that truly oppress people, an ephemeral street theatre<br />piece is truly not worth giving much time and energy to.</p>
<p>Republican protesters against Code Pink have used salt and brooms in their own co-optation of our imagery. Presumably none of them are witches (unlike some Code Pink members), so let&#8217;s spread the outrage (or at least blustery grumbling) evenly.</p>
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		<title>By: Lonnie</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator>Lonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 13:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1667</guid>
		<description>I consider myself very active in politics (locally at least), and it is very hard if not impossible to seperate that from my religious identity as a Pagan.  However, I completely agree that one&#039;s faith shouldn&#039;t be used as a mere prop to gather media attention. If we do that, then we&#039;re no better than the right wing fundementalists who aim to establish a theocracy. An exception to that is when the poliical point is about the faith itself.  For example, I had no problem &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.wildhunt.org/labels/Jerry%20Falwell.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;using our group&#039;s pagan credentials to challenge Falwell&lt;/a&gt; but I&#039;d never do that for an environmental cause.  Besides, I think it is far more powerful for people to see me as a Pagan who is an environmentalist than merely someone who is an environmentalist &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; he is Pagan.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I would take issue that Paganism isn&#039;t inherently political.  I once would say that party lines weren&#039;t important, but after the second Bush election my opinion changed on that.  When a party directly challenges a faith&#039;s right to exist, as the Republicans have done, then I can no longer pretend that my faith is politically indifferent to party lines.   I can respect Pagans who wish to reform the Republican party from the inside, but support of the Republican status quo constitutes either extreme ignorance, or betrayal of the Pagan community.  As Pagans we&#039;re all welcome to believe whatever we like, but I&#039;m not ready to &quot;play nice&quot; with supporters of the Bush Administration, nor be so open-minded that my brain falls out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I consider myself very active in politics (locally at least), and it is very hard if not impossible to seperate that from my religious identity as a Pagan.  However, I completely agree that one&#8217;s faith shouldn&#8217;t be used as a mere prop to gather media attention. If we do that, then we&#8217;re no better than the right wing fundementalists who aim to establish a theocracy. An exception to that is when the poliical point is about the faith itself.  For example, I had no problem <a HREF="http://www.wildhunt.org/labels/Jerry%20Falwell.html" REL="nofollow">using our group&#8217;s pagan credentials to challenge Falwell</a> but I&#8217;d never do that for an environmental cause.  Besides, I think it is far more powerful for people to see me as a Pagan who is an environmentalist than merely someone who is an environmentalist <i>because</i> he is Pagan.</p>
<p>I would take issue that Paganism isn&#8217;t inherently political.  I once would say that party lines weren&#8217;t important, but after the second Bush election my opinion changed on that.  When a party directly challenges a faith&#8217;s right to exist, as the Republicans have done, then I can no longer pretend that my faith is politically indifferent to party lines.   I can respect Pagans who wish to reform the Republican party from the inside, but support of the Republican status quo constitutes either extreme ignorance, or betrayal of the Pagan community.  As Pagans we&#8217;re all welcome to believe whatever we like, but I&#8217;m not ready to &#8220;play nice&#8221; with supporters of the Bush Administration, nor be so open-minded that my brain falls out.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Pitzl-Waters</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Pitzl-Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 20:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1665</guid>
		<description>Copper,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;I think I can express my intention more clearly by saying: religion is not the place to ask folk to put aside ethics for the sake of unity. Unity, yes--as much as possible--but not at the price of uniformity and not at the expense of ethics.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m all for Pagans being political, and I&#039;m certainly against false notions of unity, but I&#039;m not for Paganism being used as a prop or media grabbing tool (no matter how much I may or may not agree with the cause).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copper,</p>
<p>&#8220;I think I can express my intention more clearly by saying: religion is not the place to ask folk to put aside ethics for the sake of unity. Unity, yes&#8211;as much as possible&#8211;but not at the price of uniformity and not at the expense of ethics.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for Pagans being political, and I&#8217;m certainly against false notions of unity, but I&#8217;m not for Paganism being used as a prop or media grabbing tool (no matter how much I may or may not agree with the cause).</p>
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		<title>By: Copper Asetemhat Stewart</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1663</link>
		<dc:creator>Copper Asetemhat Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1663</guid>
		<description>I think I can express my intention more clearly by saying: religion is not the place to ask folk to put aside ethics for the sake of unity.  Unity, yes--as much as possible--but not at the price of uniformity and not at the expense of ethics.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When it comes to war, the central questions include ecology and human life.  Pink hats on non-witches might be a bad idea, but authentically Pagan groups have a right to define themselves and take public stands as religious organizations.  It is more important that authentic Pagan diversity be preserved, and a homogenous &quot;all included&quot; stance risks silencing the best (on all sides) in favor of middling self-protection or social acceptance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I can express my intention more clearly by saying: religion is not the place to ask folk to put aside ethics for the sake of unity.  Unity, yes&#8211;as much as possible&#8211;but not at the price of uniformity and not at the expense of ethics.</p>
<p>When it comes to war, the central questions include ecology and human life.  Pink hats on non-witches might be a bad idea, but authentically Pagan groups have a right to define themselves and take public stands as religious organizations.  It is more important that authentic Pagan diversity be preserved, and a homogenous &#8220;all included&#8221; stance risks silencing the best (on all sides) in favor of middling self-protection or social acceptance.</p>
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		<title>By: Copper Asetemhat Stewart</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1662</link>
		<dc:creator>Copper Asetemhat Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1662</guid>
		<description>A key phrase here might be &quot;modern Pagan faiths&quot; with an emphasis on plurality.  There are plenty out there, with a range of ideas on questions of violence and defense in general or when applied to specific wars in particular.  A universal party line is a bad idea.&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Contemporary Paganisms&lt;br/&gt;are brand new religions in dramatic flux, and &quot;Pagan&quot; already constitutes an umbrella term with broad and divergent (sometimes irreconciable) beliefs and allegiances.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Orientation to war is certainly not the only Pagan irreconcilable.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s already way too late to avoid the politicization of Pagan religion.  Or in the US, religion per se.  Religous and cultural choices are de facto political actions.  The personal, especially the religious, is still political.  Paganism is structurally set up to amplify, not challenge, that reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A key phrase here might be &#8220;modern Pagan faiths&#8221; with an emphasis on plurality.  There are plenty out there, with a range of ideas on questions of violence and defense in general or when applied to specific wars in particular.  A universal party line is a bad idea.</p>
<p>Contemporary Paganisms<br />are brand new religions in dramatic flux, and &#8220;Pagan&#8221; already constitutes an umbrella term with broad and divergent (sometimes irreconciable) beliefs and allegiances.</p>
<p>Orientation to war is certainly not the only Pagan irreconcilable.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s already way too late to avoid the politicization of Pagan religion.  Or in the US, religion per se.  Religous and cultural choices are de facto political actions.  The personal, especially the religious, is still political.  Paganism is structurally set up to amplify, not challenge, that reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Lizz</title>
		<link>http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html/comment-page-1#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/05/code-pink-makes-some-see-red.html#comment-1661</guid>
		<description>&quot;Diversity of thought is a hallmark of Pagan existence, and attempts to politicize our movement, for whatever end, are ultimately doomed to failure and marginalization.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Very well said. Unfortunately, few religions are free from being stereotyped, even amongst its members. In fact, few types of anything are really free from assumptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Diversity of thought is a hallmark of Pagan existence, and attempts to politicize our movement, for whatever end, are ultimately doomed to failure and marginalization.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very well said. Unfortunately, few religions are free from being stereotyped, even amongst its members. In fact, few types of anything are really free from assumptions.</p>
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