“Hellfire has it right. If I were feeling particularly uncharitable, I’d chalk the outrage up to more than simple ethnocentrism, but I’m feeling a bit jaded at the moment. It’s just a little tiring to see yet more middle class white Pagan outrage at those damned brown people’s “savage” practices.

The fact that some of you will then go on to wring your hands and wonder why you just can’t get brown people to show up to your rituals is kind of funny.”

These statements shift the focus of the discussion from the subject of the debate to the character of the debaters. Because of this, they are ad hominem attacks. Both Ari and I confined our comments to the subject of Mr. Pitzl-Waters’ blog entry, while the comments quoted above diverged from a discussion of the issues to an attack upon our characters. So as tempting as it might be to defend myself here, I think I have to simply reiterate that I am happy to enter into dialogue. However, ad hominem attacks are not valid approaches to dialogue.

Hellfire has it right. If I were feeling particularly uncharitable, I’d chalk the outrage up to more than simple ethnocentrism, but I’m feeling a bit jaded at the moment. It’s just a little tiring to see yet more middle class white Pagan outrage at those damned brown people’s “savage” practices.

The fact that some of you will then go on to wring your hands and wonder why you just can’t get brown people to show up to your rituals is kind of funny.

In these traditions, which are not part of the neo-Pagan movement so it is unfair to judge them by those standards, the gods and spirits are considered to have needs and desires similar to a human.

The birds may also have been a “payment” for the spirits in a ritual. Either way it isn’t a “scapegaoting” activity but is an important facet of a rich and interesting tradition.

It is pure ethnocentricism for people to equate Santeria with dog fighting. The Santeria practitioners are not breaking the law (animal sacrifice is protected according to the Supreme Court) and they certainly aren’t attempting to change your religious rites to not offend they’re sensibilities, I like to give them the same respect they give us.

Their ritual sacrifice is no more cruel than Halal slaughtering or Kosherbutchering, yet I doubt commenters here or god-bothering law makers will be fretting over those practices.

Ari,

I’m sorry to hear you are burnt out on this issue. I don’t seek out these stories intentionally, I simply report them as they arise.

Considering the fact that I’m a vegetarian who doesn’t engage in animal sacrifice, I can assure you that I’m not engaging in these issues to further a personal agenda.

I am a little burnt out on reading about this every week and even more burnt out on hearing how animal sacrifice is so much kinder than the current treatment of the of livestock. I don’t partake in either and also support organizations that seek to enstablish laws to help farm animals, so the point is lost on me.

I completely and fully agree.

In order to have the source material both you and I have requested of each other, a researcher would have to make a sufficiently scholarly cross-cultural study of animal sacrifice, past and present and then present those findings to the public in such a way that both you and I could access them. Afterward, we would both have to rephrase our questions to one another such that they were honest requests for dialogue and not impossible questions that cannot be answered and were only asked to prove a point.

The matter of animal sacrifice, and every other serious matter facing the Pagan community deserve the best and most serious dialogue we can bring to it, even when we disagree with one another strongly (as Pagans often do). I am happy to enter into dialogue. I do not answer impossible questions.

Do you have any sources that point to all animal sacrifices in all Pagan cultures were scapegoating activities? Specifically the African and Afro-Caribbean traditions?