Comments on: Pagan Christianity http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:24:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The Wild Hunt » Who Has the Greatest Investment in Christianity’s Pagan Past? http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-2940 The Wild Hunt » Who Has the Greatest Investment in Christianity’s Pagan Past? Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:41:55 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-2940 [...] the “modern Christianity is mostly pagan” meme. George Barna of The Barna Group also wrote a book about it called “Pagan Christianity”. Pagan Christianity makes an unsettling proposal: Most of what present-day Christians do in church [...] [...] the “modern Christianity is mostly pagan” meme. George Barna of The Barna Group also wrote a book about it called “Pagan Christianity”. Pagan Christianity makes an unsettling proposal: Most of what present-day Christians do in church [...]

]]> By: James http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1619 James Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:11:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1619 Certainly an interesting forum to be discussing Christian origins, Jill.<br/><br/>This is not my area of interest, and I cannot commit to an extended conversation, but a couple of points: <br/><br/>First, I think it only fair to acknowledge your citation in support of Jesus' establishing a church. There it is, Matthew 16:18, in just about any Bible you're going to pick up.<br/><br/>And, second, to note the authenticity of Matthew 16:18 is disputed. The liberal Christian "Jesus Seminar" folk, for instance, believe this line was added to support an institution that was established well after Jesus' death. (And putative resurrection. Sorry, I do not accept the assertion as factual...) http://wcg.org/lit/jesus/realwords.htm<br/><br/>I believe a fair reading of the NT suggests that most likely following Jesus' death a Jewish community gathered in the vicinity of Jerusalem under the leadership of his brother, James the Just. For almost two generations that sect was normative Christianity. So, even in the Pauline writings there he is raising money for them and deferring to them - including in his famous dispute with Peter. Suggesting, it seems to me, that Peter was not the head in actuality...<br/><br/>Of course, as we all know, the Pauline church filled the vacuum that followed the death of James and the devastation of the Jerusalem community with the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70.<br/><br/>Eventually, it is the gentile organization following Paul which became "normative" Christianity.<br/><br/>The various Pagan aspects of Christianity, which inspired this thread, are all a part of the rise of the Pauline school as dominant...<br/><br/>As I see it, anyway. Certainly an interesting forum to be discussing Christian origins, Jill.

This is not my area of interest, and I cannot commit to an extended conversation, but a couple of points:

First, I think it only fair to acknowledge your citation in support of Jesus’ establishing a church. There it is, Matthew 16:18, in just about any Bible you’re going to pick up.

And, second, to note the authenticity of Matthew 16:18 is disputed. The liberal Christian “Jesus Seminar” folk, for instance, believe this line was added to support an institution that was established well after Jesus’ death. (And putative resurrection. Sorry, I do not accept the assertion as factual…) http://wcg.org/lit/jesus/realwords.htm

I believe a fair reading of the NT suggests that most likely following Jesus’ death a Jewish community gathered in the vicinity of Jerusalem under the leadership of his brother, James the Just. For almost two generations that sect was normative Christianity. So, even in the Pauline writings there he is raising money for them and deferring to them – including in his famous dispute with Peter. Suggesting, it seems to me, that Peter was not the head in actuality…

Of course, as we all know, the Pauline church filled the vacuum that followed the death of James and the devastation of the Jerusalem community with the destruction of Jerusalem in the year 70.

Eventually, it is the gentile organization following Paul which became “normative” Christianity.

The various Pagan aspects of Christianity, which inspired this thread, are all a part of the rise of the Pauline school as dominant…

As I see it, anyway.

]]> By: Jilliefl1 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1618 Jilliefl1 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:02:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1618 Revisiting "Jesus didn't establish anything", Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."<br/><br/>What Jesus established was a relationship with individuals who received the Gift He so freely offers. He wanted a family to express His love within. It has nothing to do with religion, which is man's attempts to reach God. God came after us in Christ. <br/><br/>Many of the traditions we've embraced have hindered His purposes for the Church, so a book like Pagan Christianity forces us to reexamine those practices in light of His eternal purpose. <br/><br/>It's true that many are reviewing the book that haven't even read it, and the spoof at <a HREF="http://youtube.com/watch?v=hslswIal9u4" REL="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=hslswIal9u4</a> is quite funny.<br/><br/>I appreciate your dialogue.<br/><br/>Jill Revisiting “Jesus didn’t establish anything”, Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What Jesus established was a relationship with individuals who received the Gift He so freely offers. He wanted a family to express His love within. It has nothing to do with religion, which is man’s attempts to reach God. God came after us in Christ.

Many of the traditions we’ve embraced have hindered His purposes for the Church, so a book like Pagan Christianity forces us to reexamine those practices in light of His eternal purpose.

It’s true that many are reviewing the book that haven’t even read it, and the spoof at http://youtube.com/watch?v=hslswIal9u4 is quite funny.

I appreciate your dialogue.

Jill

]]> By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1614 Anonymous Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:39:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1614 I forgot to post my name to my comment (#8)....it's Deb. My sincere apologies. I forgot to post my name to my comment (#8)….it’s Deb. My sincere apologies.

]]> By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1613 Anonymous Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:33:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1613 "Jesus didn't establish anything..."?<br/>Then why is He still up for discussion.... "two thousand odd years" after His death and consequent resurrection? What He established has survived the misguided "assist(s)from pre-existing religious tradition" and continues to flourish and grow despite man's (and women's) attempts to undermine it. <br/>I dare say that there are a few more than "a rag tag of followers" now....and while those that call themselves Christian but do not follow Christ see their 'churches' dying....those of us who truly desire to follow Him and walk in obedience to Him are growing in number.....and we're doing our best to walk in obedience to Him in ALL things....even if it means accepting that some of the traditions we have been taught are not from Him, and need to be revisited. “Jesus didn’t establish anything…”?
Then why is He still up for discussion…. “two thousand odd years” after His death and consequent resurrection? What He established has survived the misguided “assist(s)from pre-existing religious tradition” and continues to flourish and grow despite man’s (and women’s) attempts to undermine it.
I dare say that there are a few more than “a rag tag of followers” now….and while those that call themselves Christian but do not follow Christ see their ‘churches’ dying….those of us who truly desire to follow Him and walk in obedience to Him are growing in number…..and we’re doing our best to walk in obedience to Him in ALL things….even if it means accepting that some of the traditions we have been taught are not from Him, and need to be revisited.

]]> By: James http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1612 James Sun, 06 Apr 2008 18:46:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1612 A minor point, Ben. Jesus didn't establish anything, near as I can tell. What he left was a ragtag of followers. What comes to be called the church evolved over all of the two thousand odd years since Jesus' death. With, as this thread suggests, more than a little assist from pre-existing religious traditions... A minor point, Ben. Jesus didn’t establish anything, near as I can tell. What he left was a ragtag of followers. What comes to be called the church evolved over all of the two thousand odd years since Jesus’ death. With, as this thread suggests, more than a little assist from pre-existing religious traditions…

]]> By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1611 Anonymous Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:58:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1611 I read the book and it's awesome. The authors are suggesting that the borrowing of pagan traditions has made "church" something non-Christian. It's a fair argument since Jesus established the church in a certain way. The book is written to show that the modern church has strayed from the bible's teaching and instead adopted pagan practices. It's very powerful and educational, whether you're a pagan or a christian. apparently, there's a up roar among some christians against the book. there's even a spoof video on it that's hilarious. it seems that some christians are warning people against reading the book who haven't even read it themselves. I laughed my head off at this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hslswIal9u4 <br/>I recommend the book. it's apparently a real hot potatoe now among some church people.<br/>Ben I read the book and it’s awesome. The authors are suggesting that the borrowing of pagan traditions has made “church” something non-Christian. It’s a fair argument since Jesus established the church in a certain way. The book is written to show that the modern church has strayed from the bible’s teaching and instead adopted pagan practices. It’s very powerful and educational, whether you’re a pagan or a christian. apparently, there’s a up roar among some christians against the book. there’s even a spoof video on it that’s hilarious. it seems that some christians are warning people against reading the book who haven’t even read it themselves. I laughed my head off at this. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hslswIal9u4
I recommend the book. it’s apparently a real hot potatoe now among some church people.
Ben

]]> By: Robin Edgar http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1483 Robin Edgar Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:07:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1483 BTW No serious offence to Christians is intended by the above comments. It is a pun based on the old <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trix_Rabbit" REL="nofollow">TRIX breakfast cereal</a> advertising slogan, "Silly Rabbit, Trix are for Kids". It refers only to the fact that ancient Christians, who obviously did not have an "Eye of God" perspective of the ancient Goddess worship site Glastonbury Tor, quite unwittingly engaged in some virtual "body modification" when they constructed St. Michael's Church right on top of the pagan sacred site that graced the summit of the Tor as was the wont of Christians. BTW No serious offence to Christians is intended by the above comments. It is a pun based on the old TRIX breakfast cereal advertising slogan, “Silly Rabbit, Trix are for Kids”. It refers only to the fact that ancient Christians, who obviously did not have an “Eye of God” perspective of the ancient Goddess worship site Glastonbury Tor, quite unwittingly engaged in some virtual “body modification” when they constructed St. Michael’s Church right on top of the pagan sacred site that graced the summit of the Tor as was the wont of Christians.

]]> By: Robin Edgar http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1478 Robin Edgar Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:34:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1478 Gotta love this hilarious example of <a HREF="http://www.artnet.com/artwork/31263/1140/marilyn-bridges-glastonbury-tor-somerset-england.html" REL="nofollow">Pagan Christianity</a> or would that be Christianized Paganism?<br/><br/>Silly Christians. Clits are for pagans! ;-) Gotta love this hilarious example of Pagan Christianity or would that be Christianized Paganism?

Silly Christians. Clits are for pagans! ;-)

]]> By: Yvonne http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html/comment-page-1#comment-1474 Yvonne Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:20:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2008/02/pagan-christianity.html#comment-1474 At least the Orthodox Church admits that the Christian year is tied to the cycles of Nature, and they also say this is a good thing (but then they're panentheists).<br/><br/>If the fundies want to purge all the "pagan" elements of faith, then they will remove all the most attractive aspects. Religion should appeal to the senses as well as to the intellect (though I doubt whether fundamentalism does appeal to the intellect), and according to a Christian I heard on the radio yesterday, it should "harness the body to the soul". (I disagree, I think it's about the equal marriage of spirit and matter, soul and body, not the subservience of one to the other.) At least the Orthodox Church admits that the Christian year is tied to the cycles of Nature, and they also say this is a good thing (but then they’re panentheists).

If the fundies want to purge all the “pagan” elements of faith, then they will remove all the most attractive aspects. Religion should appeal to the senses as well as to the intellect (though I doubt whether fundamentalism does appeal to the intellect), and according to a Christian I heard on the radio yesterday, it should “harness the body to the soul”. (I disagree, I think it’s about the equal marriage of spirit and matter, soul and body, not the subservience of one to the other.)

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