Comments on: Columbus Day and Indigenous Reaction http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:24:03 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1211 Anonymous Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:27:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1211 I have a poster with a picture of several Native Americans in the 1860's in full gear with weapons. The title, "Homeland Security - Fighting Terrorism since 1492" I have a poster with a picture of several Native Americans in the 1860’s in full gear with weapons. The title, “Homeland Security – Fighting Terrorism since 1492″

]]> By: Michelle http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1200 Michelle Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:24:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1200 Magenta,<br/><br/>You are right...they have nothing to feel happy about in regard to their history and how it coincided with ours. <br/><br/>However they need to move on. I know it's harsh but they should be fighting for the betterment of their people not for the suppression of the past. Just because they have nothing to celebrate doesn't mean others don't. <br/><br/>Means and Morris aren't helping anyone by protesting at a parade for the Italian-American community. They have lobbying power they aren't using. what about tribes who are suffering because richer tribes hired lawyers to get their "enemies " casinos denied? What about NA vets who aren't getting the care they need because the VA is too far away from the reservation? <br/><br/>So they cry...and nothing is done. ...they are not going to get their way of life back. They should be working towards helping their people. The history books have been corrected, my daughter's 1st grade class was taught that Columbus proved that there was more out there to the Europeans, but that opened the way for the slaughter of indigenous people. They've spent the last two weeks being taught about various NA tribes. This is public school btw. <br/><br/>Rape is cause by messed up people who don't think it NA don't count...you're right. But it happens more often because US law is not allowed to be enforced on Reservations. There are a lot of issues with this. They aren't prosecuted elsewhere because woman won't testify, they won't push for it. On a reservation they are not allowed to prosecute. That's a big difference. <br/> <br/>The AIM is view in the same cloth as the Anti-Abortion protesters. They scream and cry murder but never offer any positive ways to help someone NOW. Magenta,

You are right…they have nothing to feel happy about in regard to their history and how it coincided with ours.

However they need to move on. I know it’s harsh but they should be fighting for the betterment of their people not for the suppression of the past. Just because they have nothing to celebrate doesn’t mean others don’t.

Means and Morris aren’t helping anyone by protesting at a parade for the Italian-American community. They have lobbying power they aren’t using. what about tribes who are suffering because richer tribes hired lawyers to get their “enemies ” casinos denied? What about NA vets who aren’t getting the care they need because the VA is too far away from the reservation?

So they cry…and nothing is done. …they are not going to get their way of life back. They should be working towards helping their people. The history books have been corrected, my daughter’s 1st grade class was taught that Columbus proved that there was more out there to the Europeans, but that opened the way for the slaughter of indigenous people. They’ve spent the last two weeks being taught about various NA tribes. This is public school btw.

Rape is cause by messed up people who don’t think it NA don’t count…you’re right. But it happens more often because US law is not allowed to be enforced on Reservations. There are a lot of issues with this. They aren’t prosecuted elsewhere because woman won’t testify, they won’t push for it. On a reservation they are not allowed to prosecute. That’s a big difference.

The AIM is view in the same cloth as the Anti-Abortion protesters. They scream and cry murder but never offer any positive ways to help someone NOW.

]]> By: Magenta http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1198 Magenta Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:58:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1198 Michelle,<br/><br/>You've missed my point. It is ridiculous to ask Native Americans to find positives in the coming of Europeans to this land, period. *Nothing* positive has come of it for their people, I can't believe that you really mean to suggest otherwise. Culture decimated, children forced to forget their own languages, sometimes through treatment that could easily be called torture? Check. Almost all of your people killed off by disease and violence? Check. Forced off the ancestral lands of your people? Check. I could go on and on. I think you are full of it if you are suggesting that if this had happened to your ancestors and your people, your family, were still suffering from the ignorance and racism of others that you'd be all about finding the "positives" of those people coming to continent. There may be positives in it for you and me, but please name one positive that has come out of the European's arrival for Native Americans, I'd love to hear it.<br/><br/>Rapes are not properly prosecuted anywhere, ask anyone who has been raped. Police have jurisdiction in my neck of the woods, but no one prosecutes rape cases in my county because the courts are supposedly over-taxed. Police would change little to nothing, especially when the police are racist themselves, which would be likely true of many of them. The rape is not caused by lack of police jurisdiction, it is caused by really messed up people who think Native American's are lesser people that they can hurt however they want because no one cares. <br/><br/>I am not suggesting we give the land back and go back to Europe, I am suggesting it is ridiculous to expect Native Americans to find great, big warm fuzzy positives about anything that has happened to their people since the arrival of the Europeans. You can be all happy about being here, I can be all happy about being here, but their were people here before us that were murdered to make this land "available" to us and, yes, I doubt they are ready to throw a parade about the arrival of you or your ancestors. Michelle,

You’ve missed my point. It is ridiculous to ask Native Americans to find positives in the coming of Europeans to this land, period. *Nothing* positive has come of it for their people, I can’t believe that you really mean to suggest otherwise. Culture decimated, children forced to forget their own languages, sometimes through treatment that could easily be called torture? Check. Almost all of your people killed off by disease and violence? Check. Forced off the ancestral lands of your people? Check. I could go on and on. I think you are full of it if you are suggesting that if this had happened to your ancestors and your people, your family, were still suffering from the ignorance and racism of others that you’d be all about finding the “positives” of those people coming to continent. There may be positives in it for you and me, but please name one positive that has come out of the European’s arrival for Native Americans, I’d love to hear it.

Rapes are not properly prosecuted anywhere, ask anyone who has been raped. Police have jurisdiction in my neck of the woods, but no one prosecutes rape cases in my county because the courts are supposedly over-taxed. Police would change little to nothing, especially when the police are racist themselves, which would be likely true of many of them. The rape is not caused by lack of police jurisdiction, it is caused by really messed up people who think Native American’s are lesser people that they can hurt however they want because no one cares.

I am not suggesting we give the land back and go back to Europe, I am suggesting it is ridiculous to expect Native Americans to find great, big warm fuzzy positives about anything that has happened to their people since the arrival of the Europeans. You can be all happy about being here, I can be all happy about being here, but their were people here before us that were murdered to make this land “available” to us and, yes, I doubt they are ready to throw a parade about the arrival of you or your ancestors.

]]> By: Michelle http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1197 Michelle Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:59:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1197 Magenta: I can see two positives.<br/><br/>I'm Here.<br/><br/>So's My Daughter.<br/><br/>I won't apologize for that ever. People had to die in the last 600 years for me to be here. I acknowledge that. Part of being pagan means that I honor my ancestors and the people who were sacrificed. Without them my life and my world would not be the same.<br/><br/>The reservation rapes are due to a horrific fact that the law has no jurisdiction on a reservation. My question is why isn't the AIM lobbying the government for law changes which would allow funding and jurisdiction for courts and law enforcement on reservations. Most reservations have one tribal police officer who cannot do anything about the crimes.<br/><br/>Instead the AIM acts like a bunch of loonies during an Italian American pride parade. They could have more social events which would attract crowds and have a more positive impact. Some folks do. Magenta: I can see two positives.

I’m Here.

So’s My Daughter.

I won’t apologize for that ever. People had to die in the last 600 years for me to be here. I acknowledge that. Part of being pagan means that I honor my ancestors and the people who were sacrificed. Without them my life and my world would not be the same.

The reservation rapes are due to a horrific fact that the law has no jurisdiction on a reservation. My question is why isn’t the AIM lobbying the government for law changes which would allow funding and jurisdiction for courts and law enforcement on reservations. Most reservations have one tribal police officer who cannot do anything about the crimes.

Instead the AIM acts like a bunch of loonies during an Italian American pride parade. They could have more social events which would attract crowds and have a more positive impact. Some folks do.

]]> By: Magenta http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1196 Magenta Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:35:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1196 Sorry, but you don't make "positives" out of a genocide that has never been acknowledged or admitted to from which the decedents of those wiped out are still treated as far less than human. Go back a few posts and read what Jason shared about women on rezs being raped and beaten by white men on a terrifyingly frequent basis, as a start. <br/><br/>I am not a fan of the "all white people suck" attitude as a solution to anything at all, but no "positives" can be found in the arrival of Europeans on this soil for those who were here before them. Even a silly white girl like me can see that. Sorry, but you don’t make “positives” out of a genocide that has never been acknowledged or admitted to from which the decedents of those wiped out are still treated as far less than human. Go back a few posts and read what Jason shared about women on rezs being raped and beaten by white men on a terrifyingly frequent basis, as a start.

I am not a fan of the “all white people suck” attitude as a solution to anything at all, but no “positives” can be found in the arrival of Europeans on this soil for those who were here before them. Even a silly white girl like me can see that.

]]> By: Lily V. http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1195 Lily V. Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:26:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1195 I find the "all or nothing", "them or us" attitude both sides tend to take on this argument a little strange. It is entirely possible to acknowledge the positive impact Columbus made in connecting the old world to the new, while at the same time acknowledging the struggles the native peoples endured because of that connection. During that time, enormous amounts of faith, strength, and courage were demonstrated by all sides in defense of what they truly believed was right. As Barbara said, ALL the facts should be taken into account, as should both modern and historical perspectives, in order to ferret out the positive that came of the events surrounding Columbus' voyage--and those positives--on both sides--are what should be commemorated. I find the “all or nothing”, “them or us” attitude both sides tend to take on this argument a little strange. It is entirely possible to acknowledge the positive impact Columbus made in connecting the old world to the new, while at the same time acknowledging the struggles the native peoples endured because of that connection. During that time, enormous amounts of faith, strength, and courage were demonstrated by all sides in defense of what they truly believed was right. As Barbara said, ALL the facts should be taken into account, as should both modern and historical perspectives, in order to ferret out the positive that came of the events surrounding Columbus’ voyage–and those positives–on both sides–are what should be commemorated.

]]> By: Barbara http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1193 Barbara Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:17:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1193 I'd like to see the holiday and its celebrations modified in a way that acknowldeges the effects on native poeple throughout North and South America. I think it's important to remember the effect of such a pivotal change and not just forget that Columbus ever sailed. We can hopefully learn something from history, if we acknowledge all the facts. I’d like to see the holiday and its celebrations modified in a way that acknowldeges the effects on native poeple throughout North and South America. I think it’s important to remember the effect of such a pivotal change and not just forget that Columbus ever sailed. We can hopefully learn something from history, if we acknowledge all the facts.

]]> By: Jason Pitzl-Waters http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1191 Jason Pitzl-Waters Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:40:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1191 <i>"Oddly, you say that as if it were a bad thing"</i><br/><br/>Not at all, I'm simply saying that it is misguided to simply paint this as an issue of partisan politics. The struggles of indigenous peoples should transcend the traditional right/left paradigm. “Oddly, you say that as if it were a bad thing”

Not at all, I’m simply saying that it is misguided to simply paint this as an issue of partisan politics. The struggles of indigenous peoples should transcend the traditional right/left paradigm.

]]> By: Hecate http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1190 Hecate Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:19:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1190 <i>paint Indian resistance to the holiday as "lefties" who have gone too far with their "political correctness", </i><br/><br/>Oddly, you say that as if it were a bad thing paint Indian resistance to the holiday as “lefties” who have gone too far with their “political correctness”,

Oddly, you say that as if it were a bad thing

]]> By: Copperwoman (Renee) http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html/comment-page-1#comment-1189 Copperwoman (Renee) Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:32:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2007/10/columbus-day-and-indigenous-reaction.html#comment-1189 Jason, <b>THANK YOU!</b> Short of writing my own rant, I've been unable to find anything in the media which mentions Columbus Day or Canadian Thanksgiving from an Aboriginal perspective. 500 years of oppression is still 500 years of oppression. Today it is just takes another form - so kudos to you for reporting and giving voice (and balance) to the space between the words. Jason, THANK YOU! Short of writing my own rant, I’ve been unable to find anything in the media which mentions Columbus Day or Canadian Thanksgiving from an Aboriginal perspective. 500 years of oppression is still 500 years of oppression. Today it is just takes another form – so kudos to you for reporting and giving voice (and balance) to the space between the words.

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