Comments on: Unitarian-Universalism and Paganism http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:29:08 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Yet Another Anti-Pagan, Anti-Christian, Anti-Religious Unitarian*Universalist “Church”. . . « Beauty Tips For A U*U Minister|Beauty Tips http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-4691 Yet Another Anti-Pagan, Anti-Christian, Anti-Religious Unitarian*Universalist “Church”. . . « Beauty Tips For A U*U Minister|Beauty Tips Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:00:55 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-4691 [...] had a quick peek at an old post titled Unitarian-Universalism and Paganism on pagan U*U Jason Pitzl-Waters‘ excellent ‘The Wild Hunt’ blog earlier today. [...] [...] had a quick peek at an old post titled Unitarian-Universalism and Paganism on pagan U*U Jason Pitzl-Waters‘ excellent ‘The Wild Hunt’ blog earlier today. [...]

]]> By: Jason http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-544 Jason Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:38:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-544 This conversation stops here on this blog. I'm not involved enough to make a judgement call, so any further posts on this matter by The Emerson Avenger or "Anonymous" will be deleted. This conversation stops here on this blog. I’m not involved enough to make a judgement call, so any further posts on this matter by The Emerson Avenger or “Anonymous” will be deleted.

]]> By: The Emerson Avenger http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-543 The Emerson Avenger Thu, 05 Oct 2006 05:17:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-543 The above SPAM is the misinformation and disinformation that a certain anonymous member of the Unitarian Church of Montreal sees fit to post in his or her misguided efforts to discredit my legitimate criticim of "Humanist" U*U minister Rev. Ray Drennan's anti-religious intolerance and bigotry and the Unitarian Church of Montreal's unjust, inequitable and uncompassionate punitive responses to my perfectly legitimate grievances. It is highly misleading, seriously distorts the truth, and even contains several outright falsehoods. Anonymous U*U knows this very well now yet he or she continues to post this deceitful disinformation even though <a HREF="http://emersonavenger.blogspot.com/2006/01/my-point-by-point-rebuttal-of.html" REL="nofollow">I thoroughly rebutted it</a> months ago. . . Interestingly enough Rev. Ray Drennan's bigotted attack on <a HREF="http://creationday.homestead.com" REL="nofollow">Creation Day</a>, which he falsely and maliciously labeled as a "cult". . . is a prime example of the kind of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry that fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" U*Us tend to engage in. I find it quite disturbing that the Unitarian Church of Montreal and the greater U*U religious community not only prefer to Deny, Ignore and Minimize this kind of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry but go out of their way to condone it and even <a HREF="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLR%2CGGLR%3A2006-03%2CGGLR%3Aen&q=Unitarian+%22Diane+Miller%22+and+%22Ray+Drennan%22&btnG=Search" REL="nofollow">effectively endorse it</a>, blame the victim, and go to <a HREF="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLR%2CGGLR%3A2006-03%2CGGLR%3Aen&q=Unitarians+had+%22Robin+Edgar%22+arrested&btnG=Search" REL="nofollow">highly questionable extreme lengths</a> to punish me in an effort to silence my criticism and dissent. The above SPAM is the misinformation and disinformation that a certain anonymous member of the Unitarian Church of Montreal sees fit to post in his or her misguided efforts to discredit my legitimate criticim of “Humanist” U*U minister Rev. Ray Drennan’s anti-religious intolerance and bigotry and the Unitarian Church of Montreal’s unjust, inequitable and uncompassionate punitive responses to my perfectly legitimate grievances. It is highly misleading, seriously distorts the truth, and even contains several outright falsehoods. Anonymous U*U knows this very well now yet he or she continues to post this deceitful disinformation even though I thoroughly rebutted it months ago. . . Interestingly enough Rev. Ray Drennan’s bigotted attack on Creation Day, which he falsely and maliciously labeled as a “cult”. . . is a prime example of the kind of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry that fundamentalist atheist “Humanist” U*Us tend to engage in. I find it quite disturbing that the Unitarian Church of Montreal and the greater U*U religious community not only prefer to Deny, Ignore and Minimize this kind of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry but go out of their way to condone it and even effectively endorse it, blame the victim, and go to highly questionable extreme lengths to punish me in an effort to silence my criticism and dissent.

]]> By: Anonymous http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-537 Anonymous Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:30:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-537 The Emerson Avenger has spent the last ten years denigrating the Unitarian Church of Montreal. Here is the information that the church provides to those who enquire. Please feel free to pass it on.<br/><br/>The withdrawal of Mr. Edgar?s membership from the Unitarian Church of Montreal was not motivated by his religious beliefs, but by his disruptive and aggressive behaviour towards the members of this congregation. His inappropriate behaviour has continued for more than ten years. Seven years ago he was brought before a Disruptive Behaviour Committee on several occasions, where over the next three years attempts were made to have him moderate his unacceptable behaviours. He would agree to proposed solutions and then go on as before. He was repeatedly warned that failure to comply with what he had agreed to do would result in serious consequences. Over this period, he was suspended from participation in Church life for six months. Unfortunately, upon his return his behaviour worsene , and he was suspended for an additional year. Again when he returned, his inappropriate behaviour continued. Finally in November 1999, at a meeting of the full congregation, during which he spoke on his own behalf, a congregational vote was taken and his membership was revoked. This decade long process, during which sincere attempts were made by the congregation to negotiate a solution, ended when it became clear that he had no intention of ceasing his disruptive and aggressive behaviours. It should be noted that Reverend Ray Drennan did apologise, in person, on more than one occasion. However, this did not meet with Mr Edgar?s satisfaction. Mr. Edgar has redressed his grievances to whomever he has saw fit, be it the UUA, CUC, etc., and his complaint to the Quebec Human Rights Commission in 2002 was summarily dismissed as being without merit. Mr Edgar continues to picket the church in the futile belief that the Church will act. Reverend Drennan is no longer the minister as he left at the end of August 2005, to follow his own life?s journey; and the church has simply moved on. The Emerson Avenger has spent the last ten years denigrating the Unitarian Church of Montreal. Here is the information that the church provides to those who enquire. Please feel free to pass it on.

The withdrawal of Mr. Edgar?s membership from the Unitarian Church of Montreal was not motivated by his religious beliefs, but by his disruptive and aggressive behaviour towards the members of this congregation. His inappropriate behaviour has continued for more than ten years. Seven years ago he was brought before a Disruptive Behaviour Committee on several occasions, where over the next three years attempts were made to have him moderate his unacceptable behaviours. He would agree to proposed solutions and then go on as before. He was repeatedly warned that failure to comply with what he had agreed to do would result in serious consequences. Over this period, he was suspended from participation in Church life for six months. Unfortunately, upon his return his behaviour worsene , and he was suspended for an additional year. Again when he returned, his inappropriate behaviour continued. Finally in November 1999, at a meeting of the full congregation, during which he spoke on his own behalf, a congregational vote was taken and his membership was revoked. This decade long process, during which sincere attempts were made by the congregation to negotiate a solution, ended when it became clear that he had no intention of ceasing his disruptive and aggressive behaviours. It should be noted that Reverend Ray Drennan did apologise, in person, on more than one occasion. However, this did not meet with Mr Edgar?s satisfaction. Mr. Edgar has redressed his grievances to whomever he has saw fit, be it the UUA, CUC, etc., and his complaint to the Quebec Human Rights Commission in 2002 was summarily dismissed as being without merit. Mr Edgar continues to picket the church in the futile belief that the Church will act. Reverend Drennan is no longer the minister as he left at the end of August 2005, to follow his own life?s journey; and the church has simply moved on.

]]> By: Robyn http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-528 Robyn Wed, 27 Sep 2006 21:02:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-528 As a devout Pagan and a devout UU, I think there is something else going on in this Humanist/Theist schism that typically goes unrecognized. I think this issue is far more about a strong generational gap and the related power struggle than it is about any actual religious practices. If you look at the demographics of UUism, you will typically see 3 groups: older, usually humanist-leaning members (60+), 30-somethings with kids (25-45), and then the kids of the 30-somethings. The 30ish people are typically far more Theistically leaning than the older generation, and the Pagans amongst us are, shall we say, often the most obvious of the Theists. The older generation has been losing both power and place to the younger generations at UU churches for some time now, and they feel threatened. They watch as their traditional Sunday morning lecture turns into a genuine spiritual service, sometimes about things that they've never even heard of. In a sense, they're rebelling. They're scared. And, because it is certainly not politic to complain about "those young'uns" at a UU church (which is typically gasping for growth), they instead strike out at what they think is a fair target--the new strong streak of Theism, often wrapped in Pagan clothing. <br/><br/>If this is the root of the problem, then trying to address the religious intolerance in UUism isn't going to get us very far, because that's just not the issue. Don't get me wrong, I think that many of the Humanists genuinely dislike the emergent Paganism in UUism today, but I don't think they'd be complaining if they weren't feeling threatened by it, and that, I think, is a purely generational thing.<br/><br/>Robyn M. As a devout Pagan and a devout UU, I think there is something else going on in this Humanist/Theist schism that typically goes unrecognized. I think this issue is far more about a strong generational gap and the related power struggle than it is about any actual religious practices. If you look at the demographics of UUism, you will typically see 3 groups: older, usually humanist-leaning members (60+), 30-somethings with kids (25-45), and then the kids of the 30-somethings. The 30ish people are typically far more Theistically leaning than the older generation, and the Pagans amongst us are, shall we say, often the most obvious of the Theists. The older generation has been losing both power and place to the younger generations at UU churches for some time now, and they feel threatened. They watch as their traditional Sunday morning lecture turns into a genuine spiritual service, sometimes about things that they’ve never even heard of. In a sense, they’re rebelling. They’re scared. And, because it is certainly not politic to complain about “those young’uns” at a UU church (which is typically gasping for growth), they instead strike out at what they think is a fair target–the new strong streak of Theism, often wrapped in Pagan clothing.

If this is the root of the problem, then trying to address the religious intolerance in UUism isn’t going to get us very far, because that’s just not the issue. Don’t get me wrong, I think that many of the Humanists genuinely dislike the emergent Paganism in UUism today, but I don’t think they’d be complaining if they weren’t feeling threatened by it, and that, I think, is a purely generational thing.

Robyn M.

]]> By: Jason http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-526 Jason Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:32:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-526 <i>"That's probably the same logic..."</i><br/><br/>I don't think so, but I can see how you would feel that way. Sorry. “That’s probably the same logic…”

I don’t think so, but I can see how you would feel that way. Sorry.

]]> By: Chalicechick http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-525 Chalicechick Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:15:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-525 That's probably the same logic the Rhode Island newspaper editor used when he turned one crank letter into a story that got national play on the blogosphere.<br/><br/>Can't say I like it. <br/><br/>CC That’s probably the same logic the Rhode Island newspaper editor used when he turned one crank letter into a story that got national play on the blogosphere.

Can’t say I like it.

CC

]]> By: Jason http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-523 Jason Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:06:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-523 Chalicechick,<br/><br/>I see your point, but I was trying to illustrate "the cracks" in Unitarian-Universalist harmony. I think that most of the time Pagans speak of UU churches as friendly and open places. So it was newsworthy to see a ripple of disatisfaction appearing. "Man pets dog" isn't a story. Chalicechick,

I see your point, but I was trying to illustrate “the cracks” in Unitarian-Universalist harmony. I think that most of the time Pagans speak of UU churches as friendly and open places. So it was newsworthy to see a ripple of disatisfaction appearing. “Man pets dog” isn’t a story.

]]> By: Chalicechick http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-521 Chalicechick Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:08:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-521 I read the WitchVox thread and there were a decent number of pagans who shared their GOOD experiences with UUism, too. Not just that meeting in a UU church is more convenient, but that there are UU churches out there that reach out to Pagans.<br/><br/> I wish some of those comments had made it into this roundup instead of four negative comments and the comment about how our churches are convenient to rent. <br/><br/>CC I read the WitchVox thread and there were a decent number of pagans who shared their GOOD experiences with UUism, too. Not just that meeting in a UU church is more convenient, but that there are UU churches out there that reach out to Pagans.

I wish some of those comments had made it into this roundup instead of four negative comments and the comment about how our churches are convenient to rent.

CC

]]> By: The Emerson Avenger http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html/comment-page-1#comment-508 The Emerson Avenger Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:28:00 +0000 http://wildhunt.org/blog/2006/09/unitarian-universalism-and-paganism.html#comment-508 Willow Rhiamon is more than a little bit off base when she says - "It saddens me to hear Pagans speak so horribly about the UU's. Especially when we are so bombarded with hate from many in society." If Willow entered into a genuinely free and *responsible* search for truth and bothered to read the news article she would quickly see that some U*Us, almost certainly fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" U*Us, spoke quite contemptuously (if not horribly) about pagans and paganism. The quoted "critic's" letter described Pagan Pride Day events as a "travesty" and "a potpourri of flaky spiritualities and ancient occult practices resembling a medieval Dungeons and Dragons festival." It suggested that it was a "sad and *scary* thing" that Pagan Pride Day "will probably draw a bigger crowd than discussion on how Unitarians might lead a "long overdue reform" of liberal religion." I don't see the organizer of Pagan Pride Day, Lorna Steele, saying anything about U*Us that can be truthfully described as horrible. On the contrary her response to the obvious intolerance and bigotry expressed by her shadowy "anonymous critics" seems to be quite moderate, even gracious under their pressure. This controversy has all the hallmarks of intolerant and even bigotted radical atheist "Humanist" U*Us going out of their way to trash a "spiritual" event. I have faced similar intolerance and bigotry from "Humanist" U*Usm in the past and I am saddened to see that it still exists within U*Uism in spite of my decade-long efforts to <a HREF="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLR,GGLR:2006-03,GGLR:en&q=%22Robin+Edgar%22+and+Unitarians" REL="nofollow">expose it and denounce it</a> in order to provoke some "long overdue reform" of U*Uism. . . Specifically the significant reduction, if not outright eradication, of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry as practiced by fundamentalist atheist "Humanist" Unitarian*Universalists. Willow Rhiamon is more than a little bit off base when she says – “It saddens me to hear Pagans speak so horribly about the UU’s. Especially when we are so bombarded with hate from many in society.” If Willow entered into a genuinely free and *responsible* search for truth and bothered to read the news article she would quickly see that some U*Us, almost certainly fundamentalist atheist “Humanist” U*Us, spoke quite contemptuously (if not horribly) about pagans and paganism. The quoted “critic’s” letter described Pagan Pride Day events as a “travesty” and “a potpourri of flaky spiritualities and ancient occult practices resembling a medieval Dungeons and Dragons festival.” It suggested that it was a “sad and *scary* thing” that Pagan Pride Day “will probably draw a bigger crowd than discussion on how Unitarians might lead a “long overdue reform” of liberal religion.” I don’t see the organizer of Pagan Pride Day, Lorna Steele, saying anything about U*Us that can be truthfully described as horrible. On the contrary her response to the obvious intolerance and bigotry expressed by her shadowy “anonymous critics” seems to be quite moderate, even gracious under their pressure. This controversy has all the hallmarks of intolerant and even bigotted radical atheist “Humanist” U*Us going out of their way to trash a “spiritual” event. I have faced similar intolerance and bigotry from “Humanist” U*Usm in the past and I am saddened to see that it still exists within U*Uism in spite of my decade-long efforts to expose it and denounce it in order to provoke some “long overdue reform” of U*Uism. . . Specifically the significant reduction, if not outright eradication, of anti-religious intolerance and bigotry as practiced by fundamentalist atheist “Humanist” Unitarian*Universalists.

]]>