Allegations Emerge After Pagan Author Charged With Possessing Child Pornography

Jason Pitzl-Waters —  March 28, 2014 — 229 Comments

On Tuesday, following an investigation by state law enforcement in Louisiana, Pagan author and musician Kenny Klein was arrested on multiple counts of possessing child pornography.

Kenneth Klein's arrest photo.

Kenneth Klein’s arrest photo.

“Kenneth Klein, 59, was arrested around 7 a.m. at his home on the 2800 block of Carondelet Street. Detectives in the State Police Special Victims Unit began investigating Klein in February after receiving a tip about his online activities. Upon executing a search warrant of Klein’s residence, they discovered on his computer a large volume of explicit photos and videos involving minors under the age of 13 engaging in sexually explicit activities, according to an arrest report. Klein admitted to detectives that the computer was his and that he had used the computer to share and download the explicit material, the report says.”

Klein has been a visible presence in the modern Pagan movement for over 30 years. He has performed and taught at festivals, writtten books, contributed to magazines, and taken part in various pan-Pagan endeavors. The news of his arrest went out on Wednesday afternoon; by Thursday, social media had exploded with discussion about Klein. Many were shocked and horrified by the allegations made in the news article, but perhaps more disturbing are the emerging voices that allege Klein made advances towards them, or their friends, while they were minors.  One of them is Vyviane Armstrong, a Priestess with the Sisterhood of Avalon.

“Back in 1996/1997 I was sixteen years old and new to Paganism. I attended many Pagan festivals in my home state of Georgia, and got involved in hanging out behind the scenes at the Georgia Renaissance Festival. It was during this time I met Kenny Klein. I attended his concerts as he was one of the first Pagans I met in person and was certainly the first “famous Pagan” I had met. He started flirting with me which made me very uncomfortable. Despite no reciprocation on my part, he continued to relentlessly pursue me. This included heavy inappropriate flirting and sexual innuendos, him offering me alcohol constantly, as well as using various tactics (books, food, etc) to encourage me to go somewhere alone with him, and other inappropriate gestures which, as an adult, I can look back upon and see as incredibly manipulative. He would come up and wrap me up in his cloak and hug me, which sounds benign, but I had asked him multiple times to stop and it was just horrible. This happened over the course of two Faire seasons. It is important to note that during this time there was a huge overlap between the Georgia Pagan community and those who work and perform at the Georgia Renn Faire.

Although I voiced my concerns with the Faire organizers, and adult leaders in the general Georgia Pagan community, I felt as if I was not being taken seriously. I grew even more concerned when I saw one of my fourteen year old friends sitting on Kenny’s lap and drinking from his flask. I was told that Kenny was a long time Renn Fairer and Pagan Elder, and that he was just being ‘friendly’ and my concerns were brushed aside. Wikipedia puts his age at the time to be 43. I chose to stop going to Faire altogether because I could not deal with the constant harassment from Kenny any longer.”

You can read Armstrong’s entire statement, here. In it, she also says that she is in contact with others who have had similar experiences. At a Patheos.com article regarding Klein’s arrest, a commenter using the pseudonym of “EnergyFiend” said she and her friends encountered this behavior as well.

“He would run children’s workshops whenever he could at gatherings when I was younger (maybe still, I don’t know). I was a 12 yr old girl back in the early 90′s when I first encountered him back before the first round of this came out. I have been warning parents ever since, when I notice he’ll be at a gathering I’m going to, because people in a religious/spiritual community have this odd blind trust in it’s leaders, and that includes leaving their children alone with him while predators sing or tell stories. So maybe you don’t have kids (I don’t), but it’s all our responsibility to speak up when we see injustice and not “protect the community” as has been done for more than 20 years now. [...] Luckily, what he did to me was just creepy and inappropriate. Trying to get me alone, giving me massages, etc. I had close friends who were younger and not so lucky. They did go to the police and he still got away with it. No one believed them.”

Another Pagan, who requested anonymity, also contacted me to share her story.

“Kenny cajoled me into doing a set of nude photos when I was about 18 or 19, essentially using the ‘nudity at a Pagan festival’ vibe to justify it–it was my first festival. Never touched me, the photos were not explicit, just nude chick in the woods. Still, I knew something was wrong and I never felt good about it.”

All of these narratives about Klein in our community begin with his former wife, Priestess, and singing partner, Tzipora Katz, who revealed to me in a phone conversation on Thursday night that she and her children were abused during their relationship, which ended in 1992. However, despite the pain, anger, and worry that these new developments have brought about, Katz says that she wants her voice to bring healing and closure, and wishes that Klein could have gotten help those many years ago. Katz further expressed that our community needs to recognize the “walking wounded” among us, and that we should be there for them, with each of us becoming “the community you want to be.” In our conversation, Tzipora Katz parted with a simple hope: “I don’t want anyone to suffer the way we suffered.”

While Klein has not been yet been tried or convicted on the charges for which he was arrested, nor faced legal proceedings for these additional allegations, the Pagan community has taken his seeming confession, and the testimony of those who’ve interacted with Klein, seriously. Ramifications for this arrest are already starting to ripple outward. Immanion Press / Megalithica Books has pulled Klein’s book “The Flowering Rod” from their publication lineup.

“The Flowering Rod by Pagan Author and Musician Kenny Klein is being pulled from our line of Esoteric Non-Fiction books as a response to the recent news that Kenny Klein has been charged of downloading and sharing child pornography. Mr. Klein has admitted his guilt in this matter, and we do not feel that we can, in good conscience, continue to publish his book. We are removing the book from our line-up effective immediately. At Immanion Press we do not believe in knowingly supporting acts of behavior that violate the Pagan community or how it is represented to the world by our authors. We are committed to publishing books that help the communities we are a part of, but we also believe that any author is a role model and should behave accordingly. We offer our condolences to people who have been effected negatively by this situation or any other actions Mr. Klein has done.”

Meanwhile, PNC-Minnesota reports that Witches & Pagans Magazine has suspended Klein’s blog at their PaganSquare site, pending the outcome of the trial, Sacred Harvest Festival has cancelled his pending appearance at their festival, and Llewellyn Worldwide has issued a statement saying they were “deeply disappointed to learn of the allegations against one of our authors.” Also speaking out are clergy from the Blue Star tradition of Wicca, where Klein was a High Priest. Here’s a statement from Keith Campbell, a 3rd degree Blue Star initiate from Pennsylvania.

“Like most Craft traditions, Blue Star is composed of many independent, autonomous covens and groves, and no person or organization can speak for the tradition as a whole. Speaking only for myself, news of Kenny Klein’s arrest deeply saddens and troubles me, and my thoughts and prayers are with his coven and grove at this extremely difficult time. 
 
The acts of which he is accused are very serious, and do not reflect the values, principles, or teachings of my tradition. I certainly don’t have enough information yet to make any judgments about what is and is not fact in a very complicated situation; that is the task of the courts. I pray that the investigation and judicial process will lead to truth, and that out of truth comes justice. I pray that all those affected by this issue find healing and peace.”

No doubt further actions from these parties, and others, will happen once a verdict is reached in this case.

As for the larger Pagan community, many of whom may have had several uneventful or positive interactions with Klein over the years, there can be many conflicting emotions relating to this situation. Cat Chapin-Bishop, a Pagan psychotherapist whose specialty was counseling survivors of childhood sexual abuse, counsels against thinking that all abusers are obvious or easily found out.

“Some of us have given in to the temptation to dismiss Klein as simply a creep. It’s important though, to remember that if we allow ourselves to believe that all perpetrators are simply and obviously creeps, we’ll refuse to see the perpetrators who don’t fit that stereotype. There may have been warning signs to some, but not everyone saw them. And that may not be about blindness, either–it’s best not to make that assumption, and not only risk blaming victims, but also risk failing to see future perpetrators, if they don’t seem ‘obvious.’ I write this as a former psychotherapist, who worked as a counselor in the field of sexual abuse for about 20 years. I vividly remember the first perpetrator it turned out I knew: he’d been a local minister who had been active on the same board I had, that founded a battered women’s center. That disabused me of the notion that, as a trained professional, I, at least, could ‘always spot’ a perpetrator. It’s important to pay attention to signs of trouble; it’s more important to structure kids’ programs in a way that is likely to keep them safe (like always having two or more adults in charge of kids, and free access and open visibility to parents at all times). But it’s also important to remember we won’t always know, and we won’t always keep kids safe. We’ll do better if we do our best with a little humility.”

This arrest, and the shockwaves it has sent through the Pagan community, are bringing about important conversations about how we address abuse in our interconnected communities, and how we react when serious allegations are made in our communities and at our events. As this issue progresses, The Wild Hunt will continue to explore not only this story, but how we can move towards being a healthier, safer, more transparent, community.

Note: Tzipora Katz wants the community to know that her children do not want to discuss this matter publicly, and that anyone wanting to reach out to them should contact her directly first, so they can speak when they’re ready.

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Jason Pitzl-Waters

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  • yewtree

    The silencing of the people who complained about Klein’s behaviour is exactly the sort of thing I have heard about other abusive situations since this story emerged. Hence my blogpost on the subject.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/sermonsfromthemound/2014/03/silence-equals-death/

  • http://www.walkofthefallen.com Labrys

    I admit, it has to be difficult to police behavior such as his in the loose amorphous nature of pagan gatherings — but I certainly hope efforts will increase as a result of these revelations.
    On the other hand, I admit I feel a bit odd about the idea of his books being pulled — unless his books actually suggest something as improper as his own actions, how does that make sense except in a knee-jerk political correct sense?

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat C-B

      I think that perhaps it is appropriate to hold spiritual teachers to a higher standard than other writers. I would not support pulling the books of a writer like Michael Dorris from library shelves, for instance…

      But when someone writes and teaches as a representative of a spiritual tradition, it makes sense to me to question their writings, when their actions have been shown to violate the values of that tradition.

      • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

        Generally agreed. The fact that his title under Megalithica/Immanion was about “men, sex, and spirituality” (as per the first edition’s subtitle), in light of this news, I would find its potential for a valid message dubious.

    • Raging Fire

      Because when you buy his books, it gives him money, and giving him money right now would be giving him support. Like how some people rushed out to by Paula Deen’s cookbooks and other goods after her racist comments, or Duck Dynasty merchandise after one of their members said homophobic things.

      • Charles Cosimano

        Of course in this case it is doubtful his supporters will be organizing counter boycotts and making a point to buy his stuff. Probably because he doesn’t have any supporters.

      • Serj Enoch

        Yeeah… those people are idiots, too ;).

      • Ms. Pris

        I think your comment is an excellent example of how ideas get twisted and completely skewed: Paula Deen didn’t make any racist comments, she was just accused of racism. She had the courage to admit that she had made racist comments back in the 70s, before she knew any better, and for that she has been villainized and misrepresented by people like yourself.

        • Serj Enoch

          And several former employees and people working her son’s wedding. It’s not just a handful of random people.

    • ELNIGMA

      Thank you, Immanion Press for their stand. I think an honorable choice by them irregardless of whether said action against further publishing & selling his stuff meets with everyone’s approval.

    • Kebechet

      I don’t know what kind of contract the publishers have with him, but if they keep the book in production, its likely that the author would continue to receive funds from them if they sold.

      I don’t think its completely about political correctness, so much as the fact that the pagan community as a whole tends to be more….aware of the subtle meaning and ramifications of actions and consequince, and who wants to fund someone who may be a serial child abuser? Also, who wants to buy from a publisher that knowingly supports such a person?

      Immanion/Megalithica did the right thing to protect their reputation as an ethical brand in the pagan community by discontinuing sales, as not doing so could easily fuel a “witch hunt” that could have hurt their company otherwise.

      • Serj Enoch

        So tired of the phrase “political correctness” getting bandied about the way it is. All PC means it the equal treatment and representation of those demographics traditionally denied either. That’s it. There’s nothing PC about pulling an alleged child rapist’s book from your lineup.

        • Joseph

          That might have been its original intent, but current application is far different, leading to protecting and coddling criminals and other potentially dangerous people based on their status as members of a protected class.

          • Serj Enoch

            What you’re talking about isn’t political correctness. Like, at all. Care to give a few examples of what you’re talking about, because I can’t think of a single instance in which PC is used to “protect and coddle” criminals that isn’t a misappropriation of the term by people who don’t actually know what it means.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Thank you. Seriously, “politically correct” was coined, by a civil rights activist, in the 1970s, and given pretty much the definition you describe, but no-one seemed to pay attention to it until Rush Limbaugh started misappropriating it and applying his own perverted definitions to it in the early-to-mid 1990s.

    • TaylorEllwood

      We’re not pulling his book as a knee jerk political correctness response. We’re pulling his book because his actions don’t support the values expressed in that book (and given that it’s a book about how Pagan men should act that’s pretty important). We feel that any author of ours is a role model and should act in a manner that’s consistent with what they’re expressing as values. His book won’t be published by us because we don’t want to support his actions or choices when they go counter to the safety of the community we are a part of.

      • http://www.walkofthefallen.com Labrys

        What I find worrying is that previous to his being accused (mind you..accused, not yet convicted of anything), his book and its presumed values were deemed acceptable. I find it worrying that he is already convicted in public opinion and as a pagan this concerns me because the dominant paradigm somewhat continuously “convicts” pagans FOR being pagans. So, yes, it disturbs me that the pagan community acts SO fast before even a court conviction. I am not saying to act as if the man is perfectly trustworthy; but if the law says “innocent until proven guilty” it seems awry to me to immediately act and make statements about denying him income just because he might use it for legal defense. Everyone is entitled to legal defense, and frankly, better he can pay for it than it happen at taxpayer expense.

        • TaylorEllwood

          He confessed it was his computer and that he’d shared and downloaded the material. So although the law does say innocent until proven guilty, if you’re confessing to it I think that changes the situation just a bit. Regardless I don’t expect our choice to discontinue publishing his book to be popular with everyone. I’ve heard from a few other people who’ve expressed disappointment with our decision. However we’re not making this choice to please…we’re making it because we feel its reflective of our values on this matter.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          You know, usually I’m pointing out that there is no shortage of “convicts” in prison for false accusations that the courts got to stick –but the inverse is also true, and there is no shortage of guilty persons, with mountains of evidence against them, walking free due to a technicality. The only recourse for protecting current victims and potential future victims in the latter case is that public opinion.

          “Innocent until proved guilty” is a great principle but only to a point. I think you’d think it very different if you were the victim of abuse (sexual or otherwise) and your abuser got to walk free either from lack of “substantial” evidence or a technicality, and I’d bet you a hundred dollars that it would be like salt in the wound if people you loved and respected didn’t believe you when you said it happened, or at least continued to support him in certain ways for the simple fact that your abuser wasn’t actually convicted of anything.

      • Artemis Spinoza

        The man has been accused, not convicted. What you are calling his actions may not have actually happened. Pulling the books at this time is irresponsible.

        • TaylorEllwood

          As has been noted in the news article…It was his computer, which he, himself noted. He confessed that he had in fact downloaded and shared the material. So, no it’s not irresponsible to pull his book, in light of that.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          The fact that he confessed to owning and trading the child porn with others doesn’t matter to you, does it? How much evidence do you need that Klein was one of the bad guys before you stop defending your buddy and (more importantly) stop harassing his ex-wife and estranged children and other who may have been hurt by him?

    • Northern_Light_27

      People have civil rights, but I don’t recall right to approval, right to an audience, or right to a platform listed anywhere among them. He has the right to speak, his publisher also has the right to deny him further use of their platform. Seeing as his book is giving advice to men on sexuality and spirituality, I can see how pulling it from the lineup might be especially apt.

      Actions have consequences. Your community deciding to collectively disown you is a consequence, and as someone pointed out upthread, since we aren’t a court and cannot punish him for his actions, social sanction and limiting community platforms are the only things that Pagan communities actually can do.

  • Jhenah Telyndru

    Thank you for giving a voice to those who were made voiceless. The big question now is: what do we, as a community or group of communities, learn from all of this? How do we change a culture of victim-shaming, a place where the most vulnerable among us are so often dismissed or are too afraid to change the status quo that they do not feel comfortable coming forward when they have been victimized. And further, how do we follow through on our responsibilities to others when we know that there are predators among us? I know there are events and organizations (SOA is one of them) which have procedures in place to deal with abusers and to assist victims of abuse — but still, to this day, I know of too many people who are silenced and shamed, rather than believed and supported. We are having a light shined upon a deep shadow place, and have been given an opportunity to learn and grow from this situation; I sincerely hope we do before more people are hurt.

    • Joy

      Agreed. It is not enough to have a safeguarding policy. You must also enforce it, without favoritism. For example, if someone has been temporarily banned previously and a victim warns a leader that inappropriate behavior is continuing, the leader should maybe not bring the perpetrator as their own guest to the next event and then blame the victim for rocking the boat. Needless to say, I haven’t been back to that event.

  • Nivasi

    This was a sting operation.. appx 50+ men were picked up .. Klein just happened to be a part of that group

  • Conversations From The Porch

    Thank you for this follow up. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families and individuals who are having to revisit their pasts.

  • Conversations From The Porch

    Thank you for the follow up. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families and individuals who are forced to revisit their pasts.

  • Dana Corby

    Cat, I think this admonishment is the most important point in your entire excellent post: “But it’s also important to remember we won’t always know, and we won’t always keep kids safe. We’ll do better if we do our best with a little humility.”

    We can certainly do a better job than we have in the past, primarily in the areas of awareness and of assuring accusers that they are heard. But we mustn’t be tempted to turn Pagan society into the kind of fear-driven police state that’s happening outside.

    It seems to me there’s a simple way to deal with this, at least at festivals. Anyone being an asshole in any way should be given half their money back and told to leave. Anyone told to leave more than once is permanently banned and the word spread loud and far.

    • http://egregores.blogspot.com Apuleius Platonicus

      Humility is especially appropriate when misconduct involving children goes unnoticed (and/or un-acted-upon) in a magical community. A central concept running through most modern magical versions of Paganism is the ability to detect and defend against harmful unseen forces. So, good luck with that if you cannot detect and defend against flesh and blood sexual predators. I am not saying it is easy, but it is a serious failing for any magical group to allow, for whatever reason, truly despicable behavior in its midst by its own members (or even leaders). I am only speaking in generalities. I don’t know anything about this Klein fellow.

      • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat C-B

        Be careful, Ap. I doubt very much you mean it this way, but this comes very close to implying that those who have been victimized by perpetrators are somehow “bad Pagans”–that we’ve failed Intuition 101 if we fall prey to an abuser. That’s a heavy load for a victim (or their family) to shoulder at a time when they have enough to cope with.

        Is trained intuition helpful in identifying dangerous folks among us? Of course. But a whole bunch of factors can interfere with that, ranging from victims who have been abused so many times in their growing up years that they have taken the battery out of that particular smoke alarm (as it were) in order to be able to trust other humans at all… to the fact that many magickal practices, including trance work, call for walking through the world with a high degree of unguardedness… to the fact that many perpetrators are very, very skilled at image management.

        I have been right in my twice-trained (clinical and Wiccan) intuitions a lot. But I have also missed a number of calls, because this is not as obvious as those who don’t work in the field might guess. Some perpetrators are clearly manipulative and awful people–as the song says, “I can see your aura and it’s ugly.” But some are not.

        If we’re not careful about how we think and talk about this, we not only risk making current and past victims of abuse feel unnecessary shame, we risk failing to identify future perpetrators, because we “all know” what “those people” are like.

        • http://egregores.blogspot.com Apuleius Platonicus

          What I am talking about goes very far beyond “Intuition 101″, and really only applies to people who can rightly be considered true magical “adepts”, a category that I most assuredly do not place myself, or the majority of practicing modern Pagans, in.

          However, anyone who holds a position of high leadership in any Wiccan group, or in any magical Pagan group, had sure as heck be an adept. If they aren’t then there is a problem. Any Wiccan group (or any magical group), that is not led by people who can discern and defend against astral and physical “bad guys” is, if they are (very) lucky, just playing at magic. But even those who merely play at magic run the serious risk of attracting the wrong kind of attention both on this plane and on the other.

          • TPW

            You do know that there are Pagans who do not practice magic, don’t you? And that they attend the same gatherings as those who do?

          • Indigo Glitterlust

            There are “true magical adepts” and then there are *predators.* You can meditate over crystals and consult the tarot all you want, but that doesn’t compensate for a predator’s innate amorality, dedication to not getting caught, and people skills–the sort of predator of which Mr Klein is accused of being is usually *extremely* charming, and that’s how they avoid identification/capture for so long. Everyone loves them, and so, as “Energyfiend” is quoted in the article as saying, no one believes the victims that the predator could do such a thing.

            Most sexual predators who prey on children are narcissists, hyper-aware, and skilled liars. Most people can’t keep track of their lies, but abusers spin a web of lies and keep track of them. “Hyper-aware” means they hear & know everything going on around them, and so can keep several steps ahead of anyone asking questions about them.

            I don’t mean to make abusers sound like villains from a Superman comic–they literally just do not operate like average people. Being strong in the Force doesn’t mean you can pick these people out of a crowd–they are HUNTING you. That’s why they’re called “predators.”

    • Northern_Light_27

      Agree 100% with that last paragraph. SF conventions have taken a whacking about serial creepers over the last couple of years and deservedly so, and it’s worth seeing what they’ve learned from the experience, because our two communities have quite a bit of crossover. “Word spread loud” seems to be the biggest change happening, con organizers seem to be networking quite a bit more than they used to, which hopefully will ameliorate the serial creeper on the con/festival circuit problem at least somewhat.

      • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

        Oh, “the last couple years” is an understantement. Even MZB and Diana Paxson were covering child molester Walter Breen’s arse all through the 1980s (and MZB herself had been knowingly aiding, abetting, and even defending his actions since the 1960s):

        http://www.sff.net/people/stephen.goldin/mzb/timeline.html

  • https://undertheowlswing.wordpress.com/ Conor O’Bryan Warren

    In reaction to this, I would like to presently encourage folks to get involved with the organization RAINN: http://www.rainn.org/

    I have had interactions with local affiliates in the past and these folks are amazing at what they do. I would like to see many Pagan groups organizing fundraisers and volunteer events to help support the organization. I think we, the Pagan community, can use this opportunity to mobilize people and do a lot of good for some folks. You might just save a life.

    • Stephanie Ivy Whiteside

      While RAINN does incredible work and has done a lot for advocacy, it’s worth noting that they are under a fair amount of criticism right now for their stance on rape culture, and some folks may not wish to support them given the recent statements.

      • https://undertheowlswing.wordpress.com/ Conor O’Bryan Warren

        Then come up with an organization that you like and get involved.

        As for me, I’m sticking with RAINN. They do a lot of good work and though aren’t perfect are capable of doing a lot of good. That is sufficient.

  • showkween

    I had heard stories about him for 20 years so this is no surprise.

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      It sucks that you’d heard stories for about twenty years and apparently didn’t do much.

      • Artemis Spinoza

        Excuse me? Hearing stories is grounds for “Doing something?” Are you kidding me?

        Stories can be embellished. Facts can be misinterpreted. Accusations cannot be made on hearsay.

        • Christian Day

          What difference do facts make to these people?

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Apparently more than facts mean to you every time you trot out the fact that you live in “Salem, Massachusetts” only to appropriate the history of Danvers, like every other greedy MF in that modern tourist trap.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          And guess what else? Stories can be investigated, facts established from potential “embellishments”, and patterns can be established. By hearing stories and saying nothing, none of this can happen –which would be equally important in the instances of false accusations, but then you’d know that, wouldn’t you?

  • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

    The most important thing to learn from this is that no one is above suspicion.

    I know very little about Mr. Klein, and am not about to judge him (although he seems to have confessed), but when there are those saying “It happened to me” or “it doesn’t surprise me”, I have to question the community’s tendency to ignore the concerns of the vulnerable.

    Unlike the Catholic church, the various Pagan (and Heathen) traditions lack organised structures that can respond to a media barrage and wider societal condemnation. However, this also makes it easier to use the “isolated individual” clause.

    Are there (other) sexual predators out there, metaphorically feeding within the Pagan umbrella? Only a fool would say no. There always will be. All that can be done is to keep watch over the vulnerable.

    The price of peace is eternal vigilance, they say.

  • Renna Shesso

    Klein will answer for these charges – his alleged actions – in court.
    How do others answer for their INaction?
    We follow paths that encourage intuition and sensitivity, and we’re trained to be observant in so many subtle ways. So, if a person tells me they’ve encountered their Power Animal or the helping spirit of a deceased ancestor and I consider them credible, why wouldn’t I believe them if they say they’ve encountered inappropriate behavior (or worse) among their human community?
    Maybe it’s horrible to doubt respected leaders – especially when it’s leaders we’ve helped raise up – but isn’t it more horrible to doubt our young people?

    • ELNIGMA

      I don’t really argue with your view here, but this ignores there were people speaking out about him.

    • Tzipora Katz

      Why indeed do people not believe you? Because what you’re saying is too horrific for belief. Because it shatters an illusion they hold near and dear. Because we live in a culture of not getting involved. Because it’s easier to pretend you don’t know or cannot know for myriad of reasons that probably won’t suffice in retrospect. Or so people are telling me today.
      The only good that can come out of any of this is for people to support each other. Heal. And truly work towards being the community you envision: one of trust, respect, honor, and above all else, love.

      • Christian Day

        I think that’s part of it, Tzipora. I think another big part of it is that false accusation runs rampant in the craft, far greater I think than in the populace at large. For the record, I believe your story and my mother also suffered abuse at the hands of her husband, but I have seen so many false accusations against so many people in my past 27 years in the community, and against people (including myself) who I know were innocent of the vast array of crimes that the rumor mill inflicted upon them. In a climate such as this, how are we ever to believe every story without scrutiny. What we need is not to believe every victim but perhaps to have a system by which we evaluate such claims. Wanting evidence is not victim shaming. The onus should be on the claimant to demonstrate his or her claim. This is not to say that testimony itself is not valid, especially if it is from person after person, but there must be some measuring stick by which we can evaluate these claims. It is because of people like you and my mother that I utterly despise false accusers but it is because of such false accusers that we must evaluate every claim with scrutiny. There is no shame in demonstrating the factuality of your case.

        • Tzipora Katz

          For a young girl of 12 it is an almost impossible task to prove it. But when so many have been saying that he’s “creepy” over the years, in different festivals, different locations and adults have also said the same, why did no one listen? Why does no one listen?
          The community needs to never leave a child alone with just a single adult. Safe spots should be established within each festival. And leaders should share this information. It worked from what I hear in the Sci/Fi community.
          And how do you prove that someone touched you and left no physical evidence? How indeed without a witness? And more so, how in an environment where many are sky clad and it’s swept away as a “misunderstood” touch?
          What yardstick would you use to measure all of those claims?
          I don’t have an easy answer either, I only know that speaking out didn’t work for us 22 years ago. It didn’t work for others since that time.
          And we were all right. And how many tears have been shed now?
          Today I find myself reliving much of my own anger because while I fully understand and appreciate the need to be sure that the claim is real, I also know that even with bruises on my face and arms I was not believed by people (Heartland 1992). When Rhiannon’s ex husband beat her so severely that she needed staples to put her back together the festival allowed him back the following year. And there were police records for this. How much more evidence did they need?

          • Christian Day

            I definitely don’t think there are easy answers, Tzipora. I wish there were. And I do think listening is crucial and agree with you there. It’s the automatic belief that I question. That is not to say that I think they should be brushed off either. They should be absolutely listened to. Perhaps there should be some sort of committee at Festivals specifically designed to handle this sort of thing. In Rhiannon’s case, that would definitely have been enough for me. I am sure you’re right in that these things are ignored, but I think we should try to resist the pendulum effect. It is the nature of people to careen from one extreme to the other and I’ve seen far too many suggestions here today that we should simply believe everything. I know not everyone is saying that, and I know that you’re not, but that anyone is is cause for my concern.

          • Tzipora Katz

            It’s a delicate balance for sure. I just think that the “community” has been fertile ground for victim blaming for far too long. I would say that given statistics on false accusations being as slim as they are in the general world that we need to take a very different approach than what has been done. Perhaps the people in the community that are trained and licensed professionals in mental health, specifically those dealing with abuse need to help on this. I hope they do.
            People like KK need help, no doubt about that. They do not need to be whipped, beaten, or harmed. But they also need to be removed from places where they are causing harm.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            But they also need to be removed from places where they are causing harm.

            On that much, we can agree.

      • Artemis Spinoza

        Tzipora, I understand you are in violation of a gag order imposed by a court of law.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          I don’t know the details of the local jurisdictions involved, but I do believe in some cases, any gag order would be voided if the gagger becomes legally accused of something the gagged had been barred from speaking of.

          Even if that wouldn’t apply here, I’m sure that’s her risk to take, and she doesn’t need someone like you to publicly chastise her for it.

    • anonymous

      Well said.

  • James Bulls

    The trouble with these sorts of people is that they’re usually charismatic and charming. They frequently seem like people you can trust and to all outward appearances look like anybody else. Although the Christian community has its share of these folks, I find it hard to believe that there won’t be some right-wing wackadoodle who’ll trot out this episode as proof of the inherent evil in Paganism. And that would be a shame, because it overlooks the point completely: that anytime there is a person in a position of power, he or she (though usually a he) will use that position to gain the trust of adults and take what he or she wants from the minors. Over the span of my martial arts career I lost two instructors this way and both of them exuded trust and confidence. You just can’t tell until it’s too late – better to take a policy that protects minors every time.

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      How about we care more about Klein’s victims and less about what those “right-wing wackadoodles” might think? How about we concern ourselves more with the fact that the pagan community had been ignoring or brushing off accusations against and concerns about Klein for 20+ years and how that did more to enable his abuses, and care less about the boogeyman that might be in the closet?

  • ELNIGMA

    They did go to the police and he still got away with it. No one believed them.”

    The local cops should be ashamed of this

    • RevEllen

      Yes, some did. According to the article, “EnergyFiend” said, “I had close friends who were younger and not so lucky. They did go to the police and he still got away with it. No one believed them.”

  • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

    I want to address the question that’s been coming up of how to protect kids and teens in our communities. I wish that we could assume that they would be safe wherever they go. But
they, of course, are not necessarily going to be safe.

    What we can do about this is the same thing we do everywhere; educate our children and consent, rape culture, safety, and risk reduction. Make sure they have buddies who have their backs. Make sure they know that we will believe them when they bring something to us – whether a fear, an allegation, or a concern.

    The Pagan community is not an island unto itself. We are part of the dominant culture because – rail against it as we may – we are of it. So we continue working to create change the same way we have for years, decades, lifetimes.
    
KK is not the first (should allegations be found true) predator to create a circle of support for himself within our community. Unfortunately he’s not likely to be the last, either.

    So yes, parents, educate your children. Educate yourselves. Educate each other. And let’s listen to one another when we hear the whispers. Let’s listen to our own gut instincts. Let’s listen to the allegations when they arise, take them at face value, and proceed accordingly.

    • Thalia

      How about instead of just educating potential victims the Pagan community commits to doing something about predators, in for example, the same way some science fiction conventions have come up with clear anti-harassment policies? It’s all very well and good to tell kids to practice ‘risk reduction’ but it doesn’t actually address the problem, which is that there are predators out there who rarely suffer any consequences. Why is it always on the heads of the victims to not be abused?

      • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

        Agree that that should ABSOLUTELY also happen.

        As has been said a number of times often allegations aren’t believed. I know it to be true that this also happens in community with guidelines in place. Or even, actual
        laws!

        To me, the ideal approach would be both/and. I would love to see every event crate a conduct agreement, including clear education about what consent means, and have that be something you read and sign before registering. This would/will be an awesome step in the right direction.

        However, as a mom, I am thoroughly dedicated to teaching my kids about all the stuff I mentioned above. No agreement (or law) in the world make this information a moot issue.

        • Stephanie Taylor

          As far as I have experienced all festivals I have attended do have codes of conduct in the registration forms and they are signed by everyone who crosses into the event. Some codes and organizers go as far as stressing the code of “no means no” and discussing “safe sex” at the opening ritual. Many people are drawn to festivals and Pagan events because they know that it can mean “anything goes”.

          • http://daoineile.com/ Aine

            “Some codes and organizers go as far as stressing the code of “no means no” and discussing “safe sex” at the opening ritual.”

            That should be the baseline for every single code.

          • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

            Whilst I do agree 100%, it is somewhat disturbing that it even needs to be said.

            However, taking things for granted is what leads to situations like this.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Yeah, that’s pretty much what I would’ve said, had I the opportunity to say it, first. In an ideal world, we shouldn’t have to say that, but clearly not even the pagan community is an ideal world, and clearly people took for granted the idea that their good behaviour was somehow everyone else’s.

          • sanacrow

            I would much rather see the message of “only yes means yes”. Too often people – especially younger people – do not feel they have the right to say no so someone in a power position. And there are way too many instances of a perpetrator confusedly going “but they never said no!” The only way the culture of consent really means anything is to set the standard as an enthusiastic, participatory “yes”.

          • Northern_Light_27

            ^THIS SO MUCH! Forgive the capslock, but it’s the closest thing to standing on my chair and cheering for your comment. No means no doesn’t go far enough, especially at many pan-Pagan events because they’re full of complete strangers having intense ecstatic, emotional experiences together, and newcomers and young people experiencing a degree of openness, spiritually and sexually, that may be very new and overwhelming to them (and is quite likely to include at least one if not more than one mind-altering substance). These are situations that are, IMO, very high-risk for coercion and where “yes means yes” teaching is particularly needed. People are asking what can be done to make events safer, this should be at the top of the list.

  • PegAloi

    I am uncomfortable with the sharing of hearsay and anecdotal stories that amount to accusations, especially from people using pseudonyms. I am also uncomfortable with the perception that possession of sexual imagery of children, however explicit (and we don’t really know the details of the content yet) automatically equates with child molestation. This is starting to feel like a witch hunt and I caution everyone to refrain from the sort of rhetoric that prevailed in the 1690s, the mid 1950s and the late 1980s. Jason’s blog is usually a place where fairly even-tempered discussion prevails (perhaps due to moderation on his part) so I hope some of the other outrageous “commentary” I’ve been seeing elsewhere about this doesn’t monopolize the discussion here.

    What’s happened is disturbing, and no doubt infuriating to many who have trusted Kenny over the years. But for those of us who’ve known him a long time, we know his ego and reckless behavior have been problematic in our community before. This, of course, is different because it involves possible predatory behavior towards children (allegedly). But for so many people to be “coming forward” seemingly for the first time to say they’ve “known all along” about his behavior being potentially dangerous to children, is the most upsetting part of this for me: because 1) it means people don’t have the presence of mind or initiative to come forward on their own when they sense a palpable threat, or 2) it means people are serving their own agendas by jumping on the bandwagon with their own hearsay and rumors.

    I ask you all to remember the Satanic Ritual Abuse/Satanic Panic scares of the late 1980s/early 1990s. Don’t let your anxiety overpower your ability to think critically. Don’t let your fear cloud your judgment. Don’t let your anger turn you into Abigail Williams.

    • yewtree

      Peg, I hear what you are saying about witchhunts and the like. However the people who have come forward said that they did report these incidents to event organisers and other responsible individuals and they were not listened to. So it isn’t that they have only started reporting them now.

      I myself am aware of a number of different incidents with other people which have been brushed under the carpet in the manner described.

      • PegAloi

        I only see one person claiming to have tried reporting his actions. Many more who claim they “know” about other incidents with no names, no locations, no dates and no details.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          So then you admit that you’re not even reading these testimonies. Do you just not care, cos Klein is one of your buddies or something? Stop pulling the wool over your own eyes and actually pay attention.

          • PegAloi

            Kenny Klein is not my “buddy.” And I did not say I did not read the testimonies, it may be they appeared after my first reading of the comments section, which grows ever longer and more tedious by the hour (including your own copious commenting on various comment sections, which also seems to be a vehicle for you to impugn the names of other people in the pagan community). I had to shut down comments on my blog after 400 because there was so much hatred and bile being spewed (again, much of it from you); hoping Jason doesn’t have to do the same.

          • Christian Day

            If I say I agree with this, does that mean I also have some secret agenda of love for you, Peg? LOL

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            It bothers me that you don’t think kiddy-diddlers are deserving of a community’s “bile and hatred”.

      • http://egregores.blogspot.com Apuleius Platonicus

        If there are serious allegations about misbehavior that have been reported and then “brushed under the carpet” then lets hear some details: which festivals or groups or whatever are, in essence, refusing to take these things seriously?

        • How many times?

          In the 1980s Selena Fox was asked to keep a serial rapist out of Pagan Spirit Gathering. She refused to listen to the women who trusted her with their sworn testimony, and supported the rapist. Her main concern was “The Satanic Panic” and “How this will look for Pagans.” So she, and others, swept it under the rug.

          Years later, when she finally admitted she should have acted differently, she didn’t ask how any of the victims were doing, only whether or not the rapist was still calling himself Pagan. For some, it’s all about the P.R.

          Kenny Klein was one of the people who supported that rapist.

          One of the rapists has since left the Pagan community. He has embezzled from a few groups, and is now preying on people in the Jewish community. I think one of the others died. Another is still attending gatherings and I’m not wiling to get dragged for taking him on again.

          There were a few men who groped girls and young women at Rites of Spring in Massachusetts. They were never banned from the gatherings, and at least one was allowed to serve in prominent positions if their skills were needed.

          What happened in most cases is their victims, and the victims’ advocates who were also shamed and slandered for speaking out, were driven out of the community, while the predators thrived.

          It’s about time people took this stuff seriously. But it’s at least thirty years overdue.

          Anyone who has to ask why victims need anonymity has no understanding of what rape and molestation does to a person. For many of us the trauma caused by the disbelief and public shaming (for having that bad luck to be abused by a prominent person) is even more scarring than the original abuse. When one community member turns on us and harms us, it’s horrible. But to have a bunch of others then deny that experience and re-victimize the victim is brutal.

          No, I’m not signing my name to this. Because I’ve been through this before. I praise Tzipora for having used her real name, and having come forward back when it happened. I hope everyone who took Kenny’s side then is having a serious look at themselves now.

    • Thalia Took

      Yes, yes, one mustn’t rush to judge, must one.

      Are you actually blaming the children for not having ‘the presence of mind or initiative to come forward on their own’?

      • PegAloi

        No. I am referring to those adults who are saying they “saw” things or “heard” things. There are quite a few of them claiming to have suspected this behavior for a while or who claim to have witnessed it or heard accounts of it; and are only now referring to it.

        • Tzipora Katz

          Peg,
          I came forward as you know and I was ignored. I went to the police to report crimes but the statute of limitations and lack of physical evidence prevented the DA from accepting the cases. I did have Protection from Abuse Order in my back pocket all the time for over a year.
          Many people at the time “knew” because there were whisperings. Many people “knew” because they were the wonderful women that helped me cover bruises with makeup before going out. Many people “knew” because they calmed me down after being beaten.
          But in the end I begged them all to keep quiet. I tried to hide my own abuse.
          It is not uncommon for victims to remain silent until an event makes them feel safe (someone is arrested) or they realize they were not the only one. These people have no reason to lie and are in huge amounts of pain, I’m sure of that.
          For the ones that knew and remained silent, they too are in pain. Let’s offer them support and healing. Anger will solve nothing here and haven’t enough tears been shed?

          • Catherine

            A little up thread you asked, “Why indeed do people not believe you?” Well, I have my own ideas about that. But that’s not what I want to talk about. What I want to say is, I believe you. I know it doesn’t change what happened to you and your children. It can’t make it better, or make it go away. But I do believe you. I just wanted you to know.

            I believe you.

          • Tzipora Katz

            I have been doing a little exercise with myself today. When someone such as yourself says healing words I project them back to 1992 and for a moment and allow those words to help heal these recently reopened wounds. Thank you for that gift.

          • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

            This is beautifully said, Tzipora. I remember you from when I was a young kid, up at Annwfn, and I’m happy to see your name again.

            Your transparency is laudable, and your grace palpable. Thank you for bringing these gift to the community. It is beyond generous of you to do so.

            Bless.

          • Tzipora Katz

            You are most welcome Lasara. Hopefully this will be a turning point and people will finally put their differences aside and heal.

          • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

            May it be so.

          • PegAloi

            I appreciate your contribution to these discussions Tzipora, and I don’t think anyone wants to doubt or deny your claims. But you are also speaking with your own name about personal experiences; others who are repeating “stories” they heard from “so and so” and “can’t recall” all the details simply clouds the pertinent information we should be trying to pay attention to here, in my opinion. It could create a “boy who cried wolf” effect which would not be at all helpful.

          • Tzipora Katz

            I understand your concern. From what I’m getting in private messages from people is that they witnessed creepy behavior or thought my own children were being abused at so many festivals and did speak out but were shot down. If they are like me they would be hard pressed to name the exact festival. Was it PSG ’90 or ’91 when I went into shock from bug bites? I cannot recall they blur together.
            And several women have come forward, now with the voice of a woman and not the little girl who was hurt, and they too were shot down.
            As for the “rumors” we all know the three forms of communication: telegraph, telephone, telewitch. The last being the fastest and most widespread. Remember too that most people didn’t/couldn’t believe what they were hearing. Add to that, I left the community. I had to leave, BS kicked me out of my tradition and I had to figure out how to take care of two wounded and scared children with almost zero job skills to support them.
            I believe what they are saying.

          • kenofken

            There is such a thing as an appropriate level of prudence and withholding judgement pending facts. There is also however a distinct danger of cultivating a blind spot to avoid seeing the elephant in the room. From what I have been reading, you are teetering on the brink of the latter.

            Whether you intend it or not, you’re starting to sound an awful lot like the Catholic bishops and their cadre of apologists who to this day try to spin the abuse crisis as manufactured hysteria or character assassination campaigns or something invented by political opportunists and pilers-on to the rumor of the day.

            We can play the weasel lawyers game of trying to minimize the reality of abuse through “we can’t know anything” and pretending the morality of it is all too nuanced to judge. We will get exactly the same results as the RCC did, and we will richly deserve it.

            Mr. Klein is certainly entitled to his day in court and a presumption of innocence. His accusers are also entitled to be taken seriously, and the existence of widespread reports over time should not be dismissed out of hand.

            Many of these folks who heard things third or fourth hand did not come forward because they had no specifics of allegations or any way to even roughly assess the credibility of what they heard. Those with more specific knowledge came to learn that they would not be taken seriously by the authorities and would be ignored or marginalized within the community.

            However it plays out, this case is a turning point in the modern pagan movement. This is the point beyond which we will never again be able to say “we didn’t know better” where abuse is concerned. We have exactly two options at this point: 1)Get real about the problem. 2)Allow circumstances and our enemies to define us in terms of the problem.

    • Tuners

      Watching children on screen being molested is just as bad as molesting them yourself and it should be punished in the same fashion.

      • PegAloi

        Again, we don’t know the content of the images found on his computer. And I disagree that looking at images of something is equatable to physical actions. If this were true, violence in movies and TV and video games would be outlawed.

        • Northern_Light_27

          Violence in movies and TV and video games is fake and made by consenting actors. Child porn with actual children is, by definition, made without consent. So yes, if you’re (general you, obvs) a consumer of child porn with actual children, you bear some responsibility for their molestation as it was done for the audience of which you the consumer is a part. To equate the two is ridiculous.

          • PegAloi

            Again, not knowing the content of the imagery, it’s hard to say. It’s possible any all all of it is animation or illustrations. And the point I made is that looking is not acting; it’s not the same. I’m not saying that production and dissemination of child porn is okay; it’s not. I am saying that saying someone who looks at it is the same as a child molester is a false equivalency.

          • Stephanie Taylor

            I believe the law states: owning such images, regardless if you are
            selling them, passing them around or just viewing, is a felony. The
            allegations are these images were of children under the age of 13,
            filmed in ways I do not way to discuss here.

          • Ais

            “not knowing the content of the imagery”? What are you implying?
            I hardly think the cops would have investigated him since February, after a tip, and subsequently arrested him, if they had no case… I’m sure they looked at the pics/media in question before arresting/charging him, and I highly doubt it’s just a few innocent baby pics of his kids, or anything like that.
            Good grief.

          • TPW

            Let’s not put the police on a pedestal, either. This kind of situation can trigger bad reactions in a lot of different people, even cops. A pissed off cop might be careless with evidence or the interpretation of same. Letting emotions influence behavior is what humans do, and it can muddy the waters. Problems with evidence and police procedure can lead to the innocent being convicted, or the guilty being set free.

          • Ais

            Right, because an entire case rests on one single cop’s personal interpretation of evidence…
            And I’m not putting anyone on a pedestal.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            That’s certainly nothing I’d disagree with, but Klein was targeted in a sting operation of ring consisting of about forty individuals, and had been investigated since February. There’s far less room for error (though certainly still some room — the cops are only human) given the nature of that kind of procedure.

          • Northern_Light_27

            I’d hope a “favorite media witch” would have read my comment more closely than that. One, “child porn with actual children” was what I said. I also said “bear some responsibility”, which is not “is the same”. Your reply stripped the nuance out of my comment, and that frustrates me. I’m aware that there’s a grey area around drawn or animated porn with seemingly underage fictional characters, and a further grey area around (in some countries) textual porn with underaged fictional characters. I’m told by an expert who works for the police on analysis of the computers of child molesters that it is, apparently, common to find cartoon porn and hentai alongside the real thing. OTOH, I’m in fandom and most people who write or draw adolescent characters in sexual situations aren’t pedophiles, and many are in fact underage themselves.

            So to reiterate, IF he is a consumer of child porn with actual children, he bears some responsibility for their molestation. I didn’t say “is the same as a child molester”, but I don’t see how anyone can deny that there’s a level of moral responsibility there– child porn *exists* to satisfy the sexual desires of its audience. If you’re a regular part of that audience, those children were molested for your enjoyment. It’s not as simple as passively “looking at images”. If you happen to end up with child porn when you were searching for something else, or you walked by someone’s computer that had child porn up on it, that’s “looking at images”. Being part of their target market, and a part of the reason for which they exist in the first place, is something else entirely.

          • PegAloi

            I am sorry you felt I did not read your comment/s closely; that may be true as there has been an awful lot of activity on the net about this and many discussion comments elsewhere I am also reading through to see if I can add any clarification to any comment I am responsible for. To speak to one point I think is implied here, is the not uncommon phenomenon of someone being arrested for child porn content which they had no idea was on their computers. That’s not the case here, obviously. And you’re also bringing up a point that many use to describe adult content in general: that is it s black and white situation wherein all subjects are victims and all consumers are predators. Clearly that is not true; but of course where children are concerned the argument is a different one. I must say again, we don’t know the content of the images in question, yet.

          • Ais

            You keep saying that “we don’t know the content of the images”
            Seriously, what are you actually implying? What do you really think?
            From my previous response questioning this same thing:
            “I hardly think the cops would have investigated him since February,
            after a tip, and subsequently arrested him, if they had no case… I’m
            sure they looked at the pics/media in question before arresting/charging
            him, and I highly doubt it’s just a few innocent baby pics of his kids,
            or anything like that.
            Good grief.”

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            I am saying that saying someone who looks at it is the same as a child molester is a false equivalency.

            Considering the nature of child porn production, it’s only barely a “false equivalency”, if that.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          I disagree that looking at images of something is equatable to physical actions. If this were true, violence in movies and TV and video games would be outlawed.

          False equivalency. Try again.

    • Northern_Light_27

      The first quote isn’t under a pseudonym and said that she did come forward and was brushed aside by the Ren Faire. The person with the pseudonym also said she came forward and was brushed aside. I find it disturbing that in an effort to avoid witch hunts, you’re engaging in victim-blaming. These are people saying “this happened TO ME”, and you’re putting “coming forward” in scare quotes and blaming them for not having the “presence of mind or initiative to come forward on their own” (even when they both said they did)? How much “presence of mind” is a teenager new to a religious community supposed to have when harassed by an elder in it? What precisely would you like them to do when they *do* complain and nobody listens, because they’re a kid and the elder is an elder? Would it make any difference if they used the name on their driver’s license to make the same post, and opened themselves up for more harassment? How many hoops do you want a survivor to jump through before you listen to them? And might this kind of response be exactly *why* people don’t come forward, especially under their legal names?

      (Also, how is it inappropriate for people to share what happened to them, that is directly germane to the crime for which he has been arrested, but it’s appropriate to finish your article breaking this story with a quote about how a Vodou priestess feels he appropriated her tradition? Personal grudge over theology=appropriate. Survivors sharing what happened to them=not okay. *smh*)

      • Tzipora Katz

        Thank you.

      • EmmettGrogan

        Thank you for your eloquent response, I completely agree with you. These things need to be aired out, just like you need to let the pus come out from a wound, so it can cleanse and heal. There appears to be a strong body of evidence that Kenny has been abusing kids for a very long time; many people reported it to the police, but they ignored it.

        This type of event stirs up massive amounts of trauma, sorrow, anger and a whole range of emotions, I know it’s stirred up things for myself. But I think it’s more productive that, instead of taking it out on each other, we deal with our own feelings about this and explore why we are so angry. I know I’m angry because I was one who was taken in by Kenny and I feel disappointed, betrayed and hurt by him, as I’m sure the Pagan community as a whole feels. If we direct our anger outward, we won’t ever heal but if we can address it within ourselves and look at what lies underneath, then we can know what to do to heal ourselves and our community.

        • Tzipora Katz

          I am sorry you are in pain. I wish that I had been successful in stopping him so you and so many others would have been spared.
          Blessings and I hope your peace comes easily.

          • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

            You have nothing to apologise for. It was/is not your fault.

          • Tzipora Katz

            I still feel terrible that so many have suffered because of that monster. You cannot change the past but I can and do offer my support in the present. (I cannot write in English today, my brain is frazzled and my nerves are shot)

          • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

            Feeling sympathy or compassion for those who suffer is noble, I just wanted to make sure you do not shoulder the burden of another person’s crimes.

          • Tzipora Katz

            The victims of monsters like KK share a bond with each other. We may never have met but we know now that we’re not alone. I can feel sympathy and empathy easily. Nor will take on more than I can handle. I can walk away from my PC and not participate in any conversations when I need to clear my head.
            And Monday will begin my work week and I will not be as easily reached. I do thank you for your concern and I promise that sense of self preservation supersedes everything else.

        • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

          Anger is energy. It can be used positively.

      • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

        These are people saying “this happened TO ME”, and you’re putting “coming forward” in scare quotes…

        There’s a reason I have friends who refer to it as “dick quotes” –cos doing that is tantamount to being a dick to the people you’re talking or referring to.

      • PegAloi

        I am referring to the well-known fact that many accusations are false ones. That people lie about abuse all the time. That people love to jump on the demonization bandwagon. That vague hearsay presented as anecdotes is damaging because it purports to be evidence but is not. I am not accusing anyone of lying here; but I am very troubled by the lack of concern over all the vague rumors. Which is why I used the phrase “witch hunt.” I think it is unwise to muddy the waters in this very serious matter by giving equal weight to every single negative opinion or spurious and vague recollection, and treating it the same as a personal account full of authentic details. They’re not the same thing at all.

        • sanacrow

          It is NOT a well known fact that there are many false accusations. The Attorney General’s Sexual Assault Task Force studies show that the false accusation rate for sexual assault is 1.6%.

          Here are some things that are true: Sexual assault is under-reported. Reporting an assault is difficult, and can be embarrassing, shameful, hurtful, frustrating, and too often a dead end. Quite bluntly, there is very little incentive to report.

          What else is true: 1 in 6 women will be assaulted. Nearly half of them multiple times. When men are surveyed about their sexual past with questions that don’t use the terms “rape” or “assault” 15% admit to rape and assault. What’s true is pervasive narratives about sexual assault that exist despite evidence to the contrary.

          What’s also true is that 60% of assaults are never reported outside of situations of confidentiality. And attitudes like you’ve expressed – along with a few others here – are one of the main reasons why.

          • PegAloi

            I don’t think that 1.6% figure can be applied to, for example, the Satanic Ritual Abuse phenomenon of the late 1980s. ALL of those accusations were false (according to the FBI’s investigation).

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            And?

            I really wish people would STOP comparing this to the SRA hoaxes. The differences between the two are immense, and you’d think it would be obvious to people, especially those who claim a background in “media studies” or whatever.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          I am referring to the well-known fact that many accusations are false ones.

          Citation needed.

      • PegAloi

        The quote from Lilith Dorsey, in my opinion, suggests that her disagreements with Kenny Klein over misappropriation of Voodoo practices, despite not having been initiated, (something she takes very seriously) demonstrate poor judgment and reckless behavior on his part. That is why I included the quote. I thought it was relevant; certainly no less so than the many anecdotal remarks being shared here about other peoples’ dealing with Klein over the years. I do not think it is a “personal grudge over theology”–I think it was offered as indicative of someone who behaves recklessly and disrespectfully in a public forum as a performer.

        Furthermore, I have not said it is “not okay” for people to share their stories; but that I find it disturbing that some are doing so in such a vague and unsubstantiated manner.

        I am really tired of having my words twisted and my intentions misconstrued but I am certainly getting used to it.

    • Christy

      Someone sharing something that they personally experienced isn’t hearsay, it’s testimony.

      And (speaking about women who have come forward to share of their personal experiences with him. rather than the child porn case), to say that people should be going to the authorities rather than talking about it online ignores the inherent power dynamic in these kinds of situations. Many of the women talking about their experiences were teenagers when things happened, and DID go to their “authorities” — the leaders they trusted to guide them. Very few adults who experience sexual abuse and harassment know who they’re supposed to tell or what might come of it; to have a higher expectation of teenage women is ridiculous. If a teen goes to her trusted adults and says how an older leader in her tradition behaved inappropriately around her and isn’t believed, or is made to feel like her concerns aren’t valid, why on earth would she expect that people who don’t even know her would believe her? Also, keep in mind that old guys coming onto young but of-age women isn’t a crime; but old guys who are therapists, doctors, or religious leaders coming onto young but of-age women with whom they might have a position of power IS an ethical violation, and one that is usually handled by the overseeing organization. In the example of a therapist or doctor, the state licensing board would investigate and possible revoke the license; in the example of this man, if he is in fact the elder and top authority in his tradition, it would be up to festival organizers and other pagan leaders to stand up against this kind of behavior, not the police.

      • Tzipora Katz

        I can assure you KK was one of the top ranking priests in Blue Star. I initiate him, and being the original priestess of the tradition, yeah.
        My heart goes out to Blue Star now.

      • C. Ivy Palmer

        To be clear: Kenny Klein is *not* the “top authority” in the tradition of which he is a member. Blue Star Wicca has no “top authority”. As indicated in the statement from Keith Campbell, quoted in the article, Blue Star is composed of many independent covens and groves, which are autonomous.

      • Devyn Christopher Gillette

        Kenny Klein has alternatively claimed, implied, or insinuated that he is a “founder” of Blue Star for decades, and those of us in the know have consistently rolled our eyes each and every time. Just sayin.

    • Christian Day

      You kicked opened this door, Peg. That you’re acting shocked at how this is turning out is disingenuousness at its best. The secular media hadn’t touched his relation to Paganism and it still hasn’t, but titles like “Prominent Pagan arrested for Child Pornography” aren’t helping to stem the tide. And when I tried to question it on your own blog, you disingenuously tried to say it was only because you and I had brief words years ago in spite of not being on one another’s radar since, and in spite of the fact that a number of others have also called you out for this reckless type of journalism. God forbid we actually have an opinion that stands on its own without being accused of trolling. Contrary to what is convenient for you to believe, Peg, I think what you did with your blog was reckless and irresponsible and not in spite, as you’ve pointed out elsewhere, of my own mistakes with social media, but because of them. I commented about this current issue, though not by name, on my radio show and regretted so much even that that I deleted the archive of the show. I am not entirely blameless in this, but you have gone way too far and I can only still hold out hope that “Prominent Pagan arrested for Child Pornography” doesn’t become the headline in the secular media, or worse, among the religious right’s media arms, since the latter will completely ignore our cries that KK’s behavior is not representative of Paganism as a whole.

      • PegAloi

        Again I say, as I have said elsewhere: your presuming to lecture me on the proper or responsible use of social media is ridiculously inappropriate. Ironic, even. Elsewhere you have announced that you’re planning to “address” me on your radio show; as if you have not turned this into an opportunity to attack me enough as it is. Everyone knows what a toxic and malignant narcissist you are Christian, so it comes as no surprised you’re using this situation to further your own agenda, yet again. But feel free to wrap it up any way you like.

        • Christian Day

          You’re just ridiculously paranoid, Peg. Gods forbid anyone have an opinion on this independent of you. Of all people to use the term narcissist to anyone. You really think I’ve sat around for four years thinking about your few words to me? Please. In the annals of commentary towards me, yours ranks somewhere near the bottom. No, I actually have an opinion on this and it’s that you sensationalized this, complete with utterly unrelated commentary on “misappropriation” of religion that set Fire-Lyte Rioter off as well. I’m hardly the only person your commentary has irritated. I’ve gotten at least a dozen emails now about your reckless commentary.

          You clearly rank yourself high up among people who rate in my rogue’s gallery, but I haven’t thought of you in years and I certainly wasn’t holding on to any anger towards you. I’m sure any reasonable person realizes you’re making this person so you can try to obfuscate my opinion n this subject but I am hardly the only one who’s expressed it. Feel free to wrap it up any way that you like, but there are actually people who disagree with you and I am hardly the only one. And yes, if you attempt to silence me here as you did elsewhere, I will use the platform of my radio show to address my very valid points to you because you are being unbelievably silly and self-absorbed.

          If this man is guilty, lock him up and make him the state’s problem. But until the secular and religious right media make this a Pagan issue, why make this harder than it already is? Like many others, I believe that the Catholic Church should turn its predators over to the authorities, and I believe that widely shared opinion is what’s driving this hysteria now, but I do not believe that the Church should make a public spectacle out of it and neither should we.

          When I think of all the false accusations haters like you in Paganland have made against me over the years , (murder, pedophilia, animal abuse, satanism, drug dealing, and the list goes on forever and even includes false accusations of child porn, none of these things ever reaching past the state of rumor and certainly not bearing any proof), “toxic and malignant narcissist” rates about as low an insult as I’ve gotten, so you’ll have to do better than that for me to put you on my radar of people whose opinions I’d like to challenge for no reason at all. Moreover, you might want to consider this type of false accusation you’re throwing at me as yet another reason why Kenny Klein got away with what he did. It’s not because we victim-shame or any other ridiculousness. It’s because, for every instance of real abuse (and I have seen my share of that), there are probably a hundred false accusations. I have watched over the years in Paganland. Nearly every leader and author I know has been falsely accused of a major crime in the rumor mill. It makes us jaded to it! Sadly, the people this hurts the most ARE the real victims of abuse, which includes my own mother so I have a special loathing in my heart for the purveyors of false accusation.

          You can make this about you all you want, Peg, but the fact remains that I disagree with what you have done, as I also disagree with Jason, but he and and I spoke respectfully together about it, something you are seemingly unable to do.

          • PegAloi

            I have not made this about me, Christian. You have. And are continuing to do so with your pompous announcement about “addressing” me on your radio show; if this is not about me, why are you making plans to talk about me on your radio show and announcing it beforehand? Do you even think about what you’re saying before you type it into the comments section? Your psychopathic rants are nothing new to anyone in the community, but I will admit, having blocked you on Facebook years ago, it’s been a while since I’ve had to endure your toxic brand of rhetoric.

          • Christian Day

            Vendetta? This is insane, Peg. This issue is the first your name has been in my head in years. Find me one place where I’ve commented about you or even thought about you. I think you’re wrong about this issue.

            The ONLY reason I mentioned my radio show is because I responded to someone on your blog in a very general way about the way people are talking about this and you attacked me as making it personal to you and then deleted it all in order to silence my opinion so I was making it clear that I still have a way to express this opinion. This had nothing to do with you personally and, in the annals of words thrown at me in my day, your few words years ago ranked down in the bottom of insults I might actually remember. And now your ad hominem attacks of psychopath, etc. are just plain histrionic.

            I disagree with your approach in this matter on its face. Clearly you can’t accept that someone might actually disagree with your actions so you have to make it about personal issues. Thankfully, I’m quite sure your tone and your words are transparent to anyone reading this.

          • Christian Day

            And if I had a nickel for every email I’ve received complaining about you this week, I’d be rich. You just can’t handle the fact that people disagree with you so you have to make it about something else.

        • Sandra Mariah Wright

          For the record, I held this same opinion about linking Klein with paganism in the media and I don’t have any axe to grind with you, Peg. I think it was bad form, and national associations I’m a member of (and others I’m not a member of) have all elected not to issue a statement unless approached by the mundane media directly. We don’t have to pretend he wasn’t pagan, but we don’t have to jump to claim him as our own, either. It’s a pretty popular viewpoint that isn’t necessarily indicative of people having personal issues with you.

          • Christian Day

            Thank you, Sandra. You and I both discussed this when the story first hit and how Klein was being tied to Pagans via the Pagan media and we did not single Peg out specifically in any way so I’m not sure why she’s making my opinions in this matter all about her. I think if you look to some of these organizations you mention, you’ll see that the smart ones are all handling it in that way. I made a mistake even alluding to it on my radio show and have since deleted the show, preferring to stand with the saner heads in the matter.

          • PegAloi

            It is utterly naive to suppose that any reporter in the “mundane media” would fail to utilize their handy Google search engine while preparing an article on this topic, and in so doing they’d find that Kenny Klein has a Wikipedia page with the word “pagan” occurring numerous times, as well as articles written by him for the Huffington Post which also include mention of his pagan belief system and practices, as well as a website which discusses his pagan activities, music and books, as well as his columns written for a website entitled, now wait for it!!! …… WITCHESANDPAGANS.COM.

          • Christian Day

            Well, Sandra, at least she’s not trying to imply that your opinion (which is also mine) is somehow based in some secret agenda.

            My sentiment on this is the same as it was before. Until they bring it up publicly, I don’t think we should. Ostracize him, yes. Tell other victims to go to the authorities, yes. But make a public spectacle out of this? No. So far, none of the secular media has tied his arrest with Paganism. I think it’s telling how many truly respected organizations are taking a wait and see approach. While they have purged him from their membership rolls, and disconnected all social media connections to him, which they should do, they aren’t turning this into a public lynching.

            The behavior I’ve seen on this thread has been utterly reprehensible, and, to Peg’s credit, hers is actually better than most. I’m appalled at the “believe all victims” without actually using any scrutiny to determine whether they are in fact a victim is horrifying, not just as a Witch, a group long known for the victim of such spurious accusations, but also as a person who lives part of my year in Salem, Massachusetts, America’s most notable site for such gossip-generated persecution.

            My words have been twisted here (big shocker) to imply that somehow I am defending Kenny, just as Peg’s oddly have as well, by the histrionic and senseless, but my worry is far greater than this issue. It’s the type of Witch hunts that could come from it against other people, and us fueling his connection to Paganism has helped that. So many people went to jail unjustly during the daycare scares in the 1980′s in Massachusetts, where victims with far more credibility than some I’ve seen in the Pagan world were also believed without question … and later admitted they lied. Only that’s a bit too late for the REAL victims in those cases. If Kenny is guilty, let the courts decide, not these miscreants. I shudder to think of a world in which half the people on this thread had any decision making power and I’ve never been happier than I am right now that most of these types deride me (and falsely accuse me). I’ve become one of the most successful Witches in the world in spite of their hatred and lies and I could give two fiddler’s f#cks what peasants think.

          • PegAloi

            Would not the “mundane media” find it very easy to ascertain Kenny Klein’s pagan leanings via a simple Google search? His Wikipedia page, his HuffPo postings, his WitchesandPagans columns, his personal website, etc. etc.?

      • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat C-B

        What nonsense. Peg offered a simple, objective presentation of a breaking story on her site. The one who kicked the door open was Kenny Klein.

        I think that it is inevitable-and not irresponsible-that we’ll hear more revelations as time passes. I realize it doesn’t place our community in the best possible light… but that’s a superficial concern. No religious community is immune to this problem.

        I can’t say I see Peg’s uneasiness as irrational, either. In addition to powerful stories by identifiable individuals, there are rumors and sweeping generalizations being made. We do need to think carefully about how our community can respond in healthy ways.

        Perhaps Peg and I disagree on where to set boundaries in this discussion. But if you’re not uncomfortable, you may not be paying attention. And if this looks like a good time to play personality politics, you and I see things very differently.

        Hopefully, that’s not your intent.

        • Christian Day

          There is nothing objective about what she wrote, all the more evidenced by its inclusion of completely unrelated references to “misappropriation.” She could have addressed this in a much less sensationalist way but, given her tone towards me in the last few days, I realize that just isn’t in her repertoire. I made a rather banal comment supporting something someone said and speaking in the general about all of the people who made this about his being Pagan and she jumped down my throat making references to a very brief exchange words we shared at least four years ago as a means of diminishing my opinion, which was hardly specifically directed at her at that point. If her personal attacks on me are what you call responding in a healthy way then our community has a long way to go.

    • Kallan Kennedy

      Finally, a voice of reason here. What I’m seeing is akin to rag-mag journalism. “Allegations” are flying.. let’s see.. he is alleged to have tried to give minors alcohol, none of whom have stated they were personally molested or raped by him. AND WHERE WERE THEIR PARENTS????

      A legal adult allowed him to take nude photos of her which she claimed were not pornography, but ‘creepy’ (which seems to be the prevalent allegation by these folks).. so, she now regrets her nude photos and it’s his fault? This particular piece is definitely yellow journalism at its finest, and I am appalled that this is happening. Just because Waters has said “something like this will happen” doesn’t mean he should hype this up to make himself right.

      As for his ex-wife, her physical abuse is not child molestation. If her children were molested, she should have told festival organizers, made it public, particularly if she knew he would be around children. As a mother of children who WERE molested, hyping these NON-MOLESTATION allegations as real accusations only feeds into the mindsets of the courts that true victims are lying. You are HURTING PEOPLE by this SENSATIONALISM, Waters.

      We are not the Catholic Church who had the power to keep its priests out of the legal system.. Klein is IN the legal system and is following due process. We have ONE news report that states he admitted to the charges. What we, as a community SHOULD do, is put the onus on festival organizers, parents and attendees to require background checks, security, procedures for reporting incidents, and how they will be handled.

      Dredging up accusations that do not say, “HE MOLESTED ME”, rather say,” he was creepy” “he TRIED to ply me with alcohol” “He put a cloak on me”, “I have friends who claim he molested them”, “he took nude photos of me when I was an adult” “I’m his ex and he hit me as an adult” is sensationalism. I agree with Peg. USE CRITICAL THINKING when reading that ‘article”. I’m so disappointed in Jason and The Wild Hunt for this.. I will no longer be financially supporting this endeavor. We don’t need a Pagan version of The Enquirer, and that’s exactly what this has become.

      • Jhenah Telyndru

        I am sorry that your children were molested, truly, and perhaps you can say that there are, for lack of a better word, *gradations* of molestation — but that does not make the impact on the victims less traumatic. *YOU* don’t get to decide who was molested *enough* for it to count.

        The sexually charged touching of a minor is a form of molestation even if there was no penetration. Constant, unrelenting leering and innuendo directed at a minor (or anyone who does not want it) is sexual harassment. Feeling trapped under a cloak by someone you begged many times to leave you alone is harassment and can be very triggering, depending on a person’s background. Trying to lure a minor away to get them alone is likely a prelude to more molestation. Witnessing a 14 year old in the lap of an “elder” who is giving them alcohol, and then speaking up about what one has seen and experienced only to have it brushed aside by those in “authority” continues to victimize those affected — as does your screed above, which essentially blames the victim AND dismisses their testimonies. It is that perspective that keeps many people from speaking up in the first place!

        Yes, changes need to be made about how things are handled from the perspective of leadership and organizers, absolutely (although, if Klein had no previous convictions as it seems, I don’t know what good a background check would have done). Those who speak up and speak out should be heard and believed, or else those who look the other way are complicit in the abuse. HOWEVER, the onus of the burden MUST be on those who choose to victimize others.

        • Christian Day

          Jhenah wrote: “the onus of the burden MUST be on those who choose to victimize others”

          This runs entirely counter to our legal system and with good reason. The “onus” and “burden” should be on the accuser. If there is a preponderance of proof, or a preponderance of accusations, then yes, I think you need to act, but given the sheer volume of false accusations that fly in the Pagan community (and they far outweigh those in the general populace from what I can see), I don’t think we can automatically “believe” every story that comes along. Requiring scrutiny and investigation is not victim-blaming or victim-shaming. These kinds of gotcha-terms are just pop-culture lexicon designed to silence anyone who might want to scrutinize accusations.

          I live part of my year in Salem, Massachusetts, a place infamous for the tragic results of false accusation. We are the city that gave America the term “Witch hunt,” because every so-called “truth” was believed without question and based only on the spurious use of “spectral evidence.” It is the danger of false accusation that presents us with the reason why we cannot simply believe every accusation without scrutiny. Perhaps this does not serve certain political and organizational agendas, and such people will accuse anyone who questions them of victim blaming and shaming but this is a farce and any reasonable person knows that. Accusations simply must be scrutinized.

          Increase Mather, president of Harvard at the time of the trials and father of the infamous Cotton Mather who so stoked the flames of the 1692 tragedy, essentially ended the trials with his letter, “Cases in Conscience,” in which he said, “it were better that ten Witches go free than one innocent person be hanged.” This is true here as well, and why I am opposed to the death penalty, not because I think that certain people shouldn’t fry, but because I do not have faith in the veracity of accusation without proof.

          In 1992, during a symposium at Salem State University on the trials, Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz spoke by satellite on the subject of the trials and said something I will never forget … “no crime should be so great that even innocence is not a defense.” On a google search, I discovered that he also used this statement in other forms regarding rape and sexual abuse, since these are also crimes for which innocence no longer matters.

          But innocence does matter, even in cases of rape and sexual abuse, and accusations must be scrutinized. In a case like Mr. Klein’s, where there is preponderance of accusations, then naturally we have to look even closer, and even in the smallest case, the authorities must be brought in. This idea of people too afraid to go to police is ludicrous. Even if the police don’t support the person or are biased unfairly, our justice system is the one barometer we have to truly adjudicate such things. It may be broken in many ways but it is what we have and we should seek to fix it rather than take justice into our own hands. We are not and should not become a culture of vigilante justice.

          I have personally been falsely accused in the Pagan rumor mill, and never by anyone with a direct claim, of murder, pedophilia, drug dealing, money laundering, animal abuse, cultism, physical abuse, and of acting as a drug front. I am none of these things and there is not a legal system anywhere that has ever accused me of them, only members of the Pagan rumor mill. I am acquainted first hand with false accusation and, were I a weaker soul, I might have let it drive me into the shadows as it has done so many others, but I am not. This is probably because narcissist and egotist are the only accurate accusations anyone’s made against me, but they are hardly a crime. My own experiences with false accusation have taught me the hard way how important it is that proof be accompanied by accusation. My own mother was the victim of both rape and abuse, so I have a special loathing towards the purveyors of false accusation because I know that this, certainly as much as any victim-shaming and victim-blaming, are why we as a culture are so jaded towards accusations, because so many of them these days are false.

          So, where I agree is that every accusation must be heard and analyzed, never ignored or brushed under the rug for the sake of not rocking the boat. However, where I strongly disagree is that they should automatically be believed. Such accusations must be scrubbed that we may ascertain the truth versus the lie. Such scrutiny is neither shaming nor blaming, but rather is responsible intervention.

          • http://daoineile.com/ Aine

            You know, for all this talk of ‘proof’, there has been zero proof of all these so-called HUGE amounts of ‘false accusations’ that get tossed around in Paganism. Good double standard there.

            Also – good to know that you /will/ value the abuser over the person bringing the claim. “Accusations must be scrubbed” – disgusting.

          • Christian Day

            So what are you arguing for? The Salem Witch Trials, where spectral evidence and bizarre testimony was all it took to convict? I’m glad you’re not sitting behind the judge’s bench. You scare me.

            I am more than enough proof for me. I’ve been falsely accused of just about everything but if I am a murderer, a pedophile, a tax evader, an animal abuser, a woman beater, a drug dealer, etcetera, why am I not in jail??? I could bring a list of a hundred people from my Facebook who has heard various such slams against me over the years and none of them are true. And were I not so disrespectful as to name all the others who have had such false accusations thrown at them, I would name them here as well, but, having been in the Craft for 27 years, I can tell you unequivocally that you are wrong and that, as I said above, you scare me.

          • Christian Day

            It’s not about valuing the abuser over the claimant. It’s about not assuming the person IS an abuser until it is proven. Why do I just know that you’ve probably falsely accused a person or two in your day? I can’t think of why any reasonable person that would take testimony without scrutiny of any kind unless that person was a liar herself.

            And yes, accusations must be scrubbed. I should not have the power to destroy your life Aine, simply by saying you molested me and demanding that everyone believe it without question. And if you think I should, then you’re insane.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Eh…. I know I risk looking like I’m playing devil’s advocate in one of the few instances where I think it’s inappropriate, but considering that it’s nigh impossible to prove a negative, if there is an assumede “burden of proof” it would be against those making the positive statements, i.e. “Person A was molested by Kenny Klein”.

            That said, I also understand that there is rarely any evidence, especially this long after the fact (in just about every instance of people stepping forward), making an assumed “burden of proof” practically impossible to comply with. When this happens, it’s just the more ethical decision to pay greater attention to those making the positive statements, especially if this places them at an especially vulnerable position, and follow the trails, as it were. I don’t know if you’d amount this to “accusations must be scrubbed” but it just seems like the logical course to take without necessarily placing the reputation of the accused as a higher concern than the well-being an a vulnerable accuser.

          • sanacrow

            According to the Attorney General’s Sexual Assault Task Force, the rate of false accusations of sexual assault is 1.6%. That’s lower than the rate of false accusations for car theft.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            I’ve got ten dollars on “Christian Day doesn’t give a sit about your statistics”.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            If you live part of the year in Salem, Massachusetts, then you really ought to know that it’s the town now known as Danvers that was the location of the infamous with trials, and the modern Salem is a tacky tourist trap exploiting another town’s history.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danvers,_Massachusetts#17th_century

          • Christian Day

            I can’t believe I came back to answer this but I cannot let your misrepresentations of history go unanswered for the readers. The PEOPLE were from Salem Village. Their imprisonment, the trials, and their executions all took place in Salem. And Salem Village, in many ways, was a part of Salem. I have studied the trials at length, far beyond that sacred source of academic splendor known as Wikipedia, but since that’s our source du jour, go directly to the page about the Witch Trials:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

            While hearings were heard in Salem Village, Ipswich, Andover, and Salem Town (Salem proper), “The most infamous trials were conducted by the Court of Oyer and Terminer in 1692 in Salem Town.”

            The Court of Oyer and Terminer was set up by Governor Phips in order to prosecute the accused. This was held in Salem.

            You prove, Ruadhan, time and again, that you speak without knowledge. Why anyone here would listen to you at this point I have no idea but you certainly know nothing of the Salem Witch Trials and I came back to this thread of histrionics because my commitment to the innocent victims of 1692 required it. Please carry on with your vitriol against anyone accused by anyone without proof or scrutiny. You’re at least fun to watch doing that, but you know nothing of the subject of the trials.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Yes, a COURTHOUSE LOCATION is TOTES MALOTES the same thing as where people lived, worked, and accused their neighbours.

            Facts don’t mean much to you, do they?

          • Christian Day

            Are you insane?

            The TRIALS were in Salem Town. Salem Village was, at the time, part of Salem. That is why they are not called The Danvers Witch Trials. We’re done here. I think you’ve already demonstrated to most of the page that you have no idea what you’re talking about and every minute I spend talking to you, I could be spending making money with my tacky tourist traps.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            Are you being intentionally obtuse? It’s called “the salem witch trials” because Danvers changed its name a hundred years after the fact –which is why The Toledo War is not called The Frogtown War (though, to be fair, I don’t think “Frogtown” was ever an official name of the city now known as Toledo, Ohio).

      • Indigo Glitterlust

        “He wrapped his cloak around me when I asked him not to repeatedly,” and “I saw a 14 year old girl sitting on his lap drinking from his flask” are not hyped-up sensationalism. They are GROOMING behaviors, which sexual predators use prior to committing the actual abuse.

      • Christian Day

        Kallan, Peg is the one who kicked open this door of sensationalism with her cries of “prominent Pagan.” While I also agree with you regarding Jason, and he knows I adore him and his work as a rule, Peg made it clear on her blog that this had as much to do with personal issues as anything else when the blog tapered out into discussions of religious misappropriation. Clearly there were past axes to grind that had nothing to do with the issue at hand and that never makes for responsible journalism.

      • PegAloi

        Thanks, Kallan. I respect Jason’s thorough and journalistic approach to sharing news stories on his blog, and consider his work to be very significant and valuable in our community. But I do, as I said, find it disturbing that this story shares unsubstantiated hearsay and anecdotal information presented as a form of proof or evidence of more serious crimes. This is a very upsetting story and the implications are enormous for our community.

        I certainly understand Jason’s wanting to present a well-rounded treatment of the issue, given all of the chatter out there. But hearsay is not evidence, and sharing of imagery, no matter how vile, is not tantamount to molestation. I don’t intend to belittle anyone who has suffered abuse at anyone’s hands, and I have appreciated those willing to share their stories who are using their actual names.

        But pseudonyms, to me, are a convenient way of hiding, and I don’t tend to find them to be an indicator or trustworthiness, unless the pseudonym has been used a very long time and the person is known to me or to a wide acquaintance I share. Maybe that is solipsistic or naive of me, but having seen the damage that can be done by the sharing of rumors over social media, I think it’s something we need to be very aware of. Critical thinking often seems to be in short supply these days, as any casual perusal of any comments section anywhere on the internet will show.

      • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

        As for his ex-wife, her physical abuse is not child molestation. If her children were molested, she should have told festival organizers, made it public, particularly if she knew he would be around children.

        Except for the fact that she did, and most people just brushed her off as Klein’s “bitter ex-wife”.

    • Susie

      Peg..while I do agree that we don’t want another “Satanic Panic”, I don’t understand what you mean by “starting to feel like a witch hunt.” The images were on his computer, he claimed ownership of that computer and computer forensics will find out the rest. This is not a baseless accusation.

      And implying that possessing child porn isn’t the same as or indicative of molestation is splitting hairs IMO. Do you have to touch someone to be abusing them? And if someone gets off on watching videos of children being molested ( or we can say raped, because why sugarcoat this) do you want to support that person simply becaus you don’t think he’ll do the dirty work himself?

      • PegAloi

        No, I don’t support such activity and I don’t think what I said implies that; to be clear, I think equating LOOKING at such images is in no way the same as MOLESTING CHILDREN, which is a physical act. Do I think the production of child porn is a bad thing? Yes I do. Should someone who looks at it be treated the same as someone who produces it via the exploitation of children? No I don’t. The law is very clear on this and I think we ought to be in discussing it, too.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          The percentage of child molestors who have child porn is overwhelmingly high; nearly if not 100%. The percentage of people who own child porn and have never molested children is very rare, nearly a statistical insignificance. It’s not an unfair conclusion for people to draw, especially in light of the testimonials against him.

          lmgtfy.com

          • PegAloi

            Yes DO PLEASE GOOGLE IT and offer some actual facts to substantiate this claim. The burden of proof is on you. As for the “testimonials” this is not a court room, so they are still narratives (whether factual, hearsay, or anecdotes). Just being picayunish about terminology, sorry, but it’s important to be accurate.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy
    • Gareth Thomas

      ” I am also uncomfortable with the perception that possession of sexual imagery of children, however explicit (and we don’t really know the details of the content yet) automatically equates with child molestation.”

      It is however molestation. So there is no excuse.

      • PegAloi

        No, it isn’t. The law is clear on this and we need to be as well.

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      I am uncomfortable with the sharing of hearsay and anecdotal stories
      that amount to accusations, especially from people using pseudonyms.

      You know, if people felt safe sharing their stories, then pseudonyms wouldn’t be necessary. Sure, there are “overculture” reasons a person might not feel safe sharing their real/legal name –but have you actually read any of these stories? Another reason people might not feel safe sharing their identity as a victim is BECAUSE OF THE COMMUNITY. No-one wanted to believe that Klein could ever have done these sorts of things, so might as well accuse the kids sharing their experiences in hopes of getting help that they’re just stirring up trouble, or misunderstand, or whatever else. Attitudes like yours are part of the problem, as it only aids and abets abusers by making the victims and potential future victims feel unsafe for coming forward.

      I am also uncomfortable with the perception that possession of sexual
      imagery of children, however explicit (and we don’t really know the
      details of the content yet) automatically equates with child
      molestation.

      Sure, we can play devil’s advocate, but considering that he was arrested among about forty men targeted in a NOLA sting, I think it’s safe to assume that the people who took him in know what child porn actually looks like. Furthermore, do you know how child porn is made, Peg? You typically can’t make child porn without the sexual abuse of minors somehow involved. But sure, play devil’s advocate cos it’s a BNP and folk-singer and not a Republican politician or something.

      This is starting to feel like a witch hunt and I caution everyone to
      refrain from the sort of rhetoric that prevailed in the 1690s, the mid
      1950s and the late 1980s.

      You can’t have “a witch hunt” against a single pervert, Peg. Gods below, you’re starting to sound like MZB defending Walter Breen.

      Jason’s blog is usually a place where fairly even-tempered discussion prevails (perhaps due to moderation on his part)….

      *snorf!* Do you read the same Wild Hunt that I do?

      …so I hope some of the other outrageous “commentary” I’ve been seeing
      elsewhere about this doesn’t monopolize the discussion here.

      If by “outrageous commentary” you mean victims coming forth and people actually supporting them, rather than accusing them of “rumormongering”, I hope it continues! People should feel SAFE to come forward when someone abuses them. People shouldn’t be afraid pf being chastised by the community when they suspect even a BNP folk singer is a palpable threat to the safety of minors or others.

      While I get what you’re saying, to an extent, I find your conduct in this to be shameful –it’s the conduct of enablers who helped assure that he could go on for 20+ years without a record because it’s based on the idea of “let’s just wait and see if anything substantial comes of this”. When is the evidence substantial enough for you, Peg? When do victims’ testimonies stop being “rumormongering”? Huh, when?

      • Christian Day

        I cannot believe I’m about defend Peg, as rude and dismissive as she’s been to me in the past two days, but I do not think she is defending Mr. Klein the way you say. It was she who first blogged about a “Prominent Pagan” being arrested for child porn and so she didn’t shy away from this. While I think she actually kicked open the door for this Witch Hunt to happen, I agree with her that we shouldn’t take every single accusation at face value no matter how great his crimes might turn out to be for it sets a dangerous precedent. She attempting to dilute my argument by accusing me of calling her out for personal issues she claims I have with her (and don’t). You’re doing the same to her by insinuating that she’s somehow a Klein supporter because she doesn’t agree with every turn this tale is taking.

        And when I say Witch Hunt, by the way, I am not just speaking of Klein, but the direction this whole incident seems to be taking in terms of people saying we should simply believe, without question, every accusation that comes along. I’ve seen many good people, including myself, burned by the fires of falsehood. I think every victim of abuse should speak out, should tell people, should go to the police. But I also believe that we must take every accusation with a grain of salt until we either have solid proof, a preponderance of accusers, or both. If I never hear the term “your truth” again in my life, it will be too soon. The word truth has been utterly polluted and has no use to me anymore. I prefer facts and the facts we know are what we saw in the official press release from the Louisiana State Police, which mentions nothing of the supposed confession that the Times-Picayune claimed he made. Am I defending him? No, and my gut feeling is there’s definitely something going on there, but I am also willing to see how the facts play out and I’m certainly not willing to stand by while the Pagan Community becomes a reenactment of the daycare scares of the 1980, where, despite entire swaths of testimony, most of these so-called crimes were proven to be little more than hot air and hysteria.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          The difference between this and the SRA hoaxes should be fairly obvious. It’s an insult to intelligence to compare the two.

          • Christian Day

            I’m not comparing the SRA Hoaxes to Klein, but then you can see that from the initial sentence that references it. I’m comparing the SRA Hoaxes to the desire expressed throughout the comments on this blog that we simply believe every story offered about any potential abuser, not just Klein. Nice try, though.

            The paragraph where I mention the SRA Hoaxes began with:

            “And when I say Witch Hunt, by the way, I am not just speaking of Klein, but the direction this whole incident seems to be taking in terms of people saying we should simply believe, without question, every accusation that comes along.”

            I think that makes it pretty clear that my SRA reference went way beyond Klein. I’m sorry if that context escaped you.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            So who’s saying that we should believe every accusation made against a potential abuser, ever? Find me ONE PERSON who said that, and, well, I’ve made some oatmeal-Raisinette cookies — *dark chocolate* Raisinettes, too,

          • Christian Day

            There is a very insidious agenda going on here that is far worse, in my opinion, than anything even Klein may have done, and that is the war cry of believing any accusation against anyone, regardless of how unlikely that accusation might be. To quote Dershowitz again, when he was speaking about the Witch Trials but making a very obvious correlation to these child abuse scares, “No crime should be so great that even innocence is not a defense.”

          • http://daoineile.com/ Aine

            “There is a very insidious agenda going on here that is far worse, in my opinion, than anything even Klein may have done…”

            Believing victims is worse than what Klein has done? Remind me to never, ever go anywhere near you.

          • Christian Day

            Way to twist my words. No, Aine, believing people who make false accusations is worse, in my opinion, because the swath of victims will be even greater and that was pretty clear from my comment and my quote of Alan Dershowitz. But yeah, way to twist my words. Why would I want to be near anyone who lies about what people say? I prefer truthful people in my world so feel free to stay as far from me as you can. :)

          • Christian Day

            I am personally of the opinion that most of the people who say we should believe anyone’s accusation, regardless of how unlikely and without any scrutiny whatsoever, have probably falsely accused someone themselves at one point. Such people are not welcome in my world because, to me, the truth always matters more than a person’s agenda. I’ve always said, whether it be about politics, religion, or, in this case, radical feminism, the moment you have to lie to support your cause, you no longer have one.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            You know, while I agree that false accusations are a problem, and it’s not always easy for a person to tell a false accusation from a real one, I can definitely tell you that the way to handle it is NOT to revile the accurers, which has been objectively measured to make it harder for real victims to come forward far worse than a hundred false accusations.

          • Christian Day

            I am done with this thread. I want to go back to my little world where I can pretend that peasants like you and Ruadhan don’t exist. I use my own magic and ask all the gods that are holy that you never hold any power in the world and that no one is ever hurt by the false accusations you almost certainly engage in for if you did not engage in such things, you surely wouldn’t be asking us to believe accusations without any sort of scrutiny at all. Such acts are what led to the Witch burnings and I can see both of you holding the torch. I’d rather disappear back into a world where you don’t exist. Carry on.

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            So, did your ritual against Charlie Sheen get you what you wanted, too, or is it one of those slow-acting magics? I mean, his new series on FX speaks volumes to your immense powers in this and other worlds (or am I mistaken and was that ANOTHER pagan named Christian Day?)

          • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

            There is a very insidious agenda going on here that is far worse, in my opinion, than anything even Klein may have done, and that is the war cry of believing any accusation against anyone, regardless of how unlikely that accusation might be.

            Wow.

            Just when I thought that the nonsense in this and other threads has hit an all-time low in the bizarre phobia that the pagan community seems to have against basic ethics and standards of behaviour, you give me this. Thanks for reminding me that the bar can always go lower.

  • Linda xx

    The issue of abuse within the pagan communities is one that I have been concerned with for many decades. I have had my own experiences with Kenny Klein, and chose to have no further contact with him; I feel vindicated by this very unfortunate news. Over twenty years ago I wrote an in-depth article about the response of pagan communities to the issue of abuse; it is dated but still relevant and I would like to offer it up for others to read. When I led coven back in the 1980s my coven was dedicated to issues of teaching and healing, particularly in the psychological arts. I have led workshops at pagan festivals (including CAW Merrymeet, in 1989) that addressed abuse and misuse of power.

    Abuse Crosses All Boundaries
    by Lady Lee, copywritten
    As published in Of A Like Mind, Lammas/ Fall Equinox 1989

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/linda-xx/abuse-crosses-all-boundaries/594935803868722

  • edhubbard

    I discussed this in 2000 and 2001 that this was the Achilles heal of the Pagan community. This was shut down asthey did not want to discuss this. Unfortunately Kenny Klein is tip of the iceberg. In my own tradition we had to purge and even criminally report members, and we have had big public statements. Kenny Klein is not alone, and there are several other male and female members who believe in child sex. They hang out at festivals as well as prestigious positions. This is not shocking, and in fact, is surprisingly if this does not bring a string of arrests in the months to come. This year, the festivals face a crisis of epic proportions. So ask yourselves, does anyone you know have nude pictures of children at festivals on their computers? Are we subjecting our children to dangerous situtions in the name of Paganism?

    • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

      Wow, super dangerous words there. With all respect, can we keep “nude” separate from “child sex”?

      I hope against hope that all the people who are committing atrocities are found out and cast out, and that our body positive and sex positive culture (a culture of consent, boundary, and respect) can remain sacred and safe.

      • edhubbard

        Sure, we can but will authorities. This is not just some leader but one at the centers of our community, whose best friends with many of our big name leaders.

      • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

        I don’t know about the US but here in the UK, the child pornography laws do not (just) take intent of photographer into account, but intent of “user”.

      • Anonymous

        Lasara, with respect, I remember you writing years ago about the Pagan men and women at festivals who would leer at you and other underage Pagans, seeming to be waiting for the stroke of midnight of a kid’s 18th birthday to pounce. That kind of stress and pressure is awful. I know, because I was subjected to it, too. While every spiritual community has its predators, the Pagan community has historically had a higher tolerance of leering, sexually inappropriate comments from older members about younger ones.

        And people who have spoken out about it have been shamed and called prudes or not real Pagans, just because they don’t want some dude’s dong in their daughter’s face.

        I wish it were as simple as it being the same as, say, the Catholics, only with the Pagan stuff more out in the open. But I don’t think it is. Wearing clothing will not stop predators. Most of us are OK with nudity to one extent or another. But when we see people who seem to be at the event to leer at naked kids, we have to do something. We can’t keep waiting till it’s too late.

        Many Pagans chose to leave the festival scene after they had kids for this reason. It’s not out of thinking nudity is wrong, it’s because so many of the people are NOT following the naturist edict of keeping touch and looks non-sexual unless there is explicit consent and privacy.

        • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

          Agreed.

          Also, I am sorry that you (and I, and may of us) experienced any level of predation in our tender years. It is all kinds of messed up.

  • SGMolly

    I am disappointed that Wild Hunt is presenting this case with no vetting of the accusations.

    I know nothing of this man other than what I’ve heard about him in the last 24 hours. But I do know this. He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of LAW, not a court of media, public opinion, publicity seekers and ex-wives.

    • Kebechet

      The person in question admitted to the authorities that they owned the computer, and that they downloaded the material. Court of law or not, they admitted this to the authorities, and its has gone on record that they stated it.

      • SGMolly

        Allegedly admitted according to source that has not be vetting. The fact that are are repeating that accusation shows that the damage caused by propagating claims of his guilt is already done.

    • Northern_Light_27

      Innocent until proven guilty is a (criminal) legal standard, not a social one. You don’t have to wait for a court verdict before deciding that someone’s a problem who you don’t want in your community. (And given how many people knew at least some part of “this guy is a problem” over the years, it seems like it would have benefited people if there’d been less waiting for an actual arrest before giving him the boot, socially speaking.)

    • Linda xx

      While we wait for “guilty” verdicts in a court of law we wait for Justice. Very few rapists actually get convicted, and victims deserve to be heard.

    • Christy

      “Beyond a reasonable doubt” and “innocent until proven guilty” are legal constructs, not common sense, everyday living constructs. If any of us were on the jury that would hear his case and decide his legal consequences, we’d be bound to adhere to those standards. We’re not. So, we’re allowed to believe he’s guilty before a court has tried him based on our own consciences and what we’ve heard, particularly when believing he’s innocent until proven guilty means we necessarily mean the women who have accused him of misconduct (speaking specifically to those accused earlier in the comments of “talking out of their asses, not to the child pornography case) are guilty of lying about him until proven innocent. Example and clarification:http://thenewinquiry.com/…/zung…/woody-allens-good-name/

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat C-B

      We have no power or authority to jail him; we haven’t got the resources to try a crime. But we do have the power to help his victims to heal, by taking their allegations seriously, and by identifying the behaviors described as grievously wrong, and in no way the fault of those victimized.

      And we have the power to protect members of our community in the future by taking seriously the number and specificity of these stories. With or without a legal verdict in this case, there is ample reason for us as a community to take very seriously the high probability that this man is dangerous to children, and to bar him access to potential victims in the future.

      Everyone has a Constitutional right to a fair trial, under the legal standards of innocence until guilt is proven.

      But no one has a Constitutional right to the good opinion and trust of a spiritual community, when there is ample reason to believe they have forfeited it through harming others. We can and we must hold our leaders to a higher standard than the legal “innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.”

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      So, what about the not-short list of paedophiles, who get off as “not guilty” in a court of law due to a technicality and in spite of mountains of evidence? The US judicial system is imperfect, no Western judicial branch is perfect, and the naivety of relying on it alone to say whether or not a person is guilty of the accused actions can be toxic.

      • Christian Day

        And you trust the court of histrionic opinion more? That’s comforting to know. The US Judicial system is anything but perfect. You are right in that, but if you think the Pagan populace, members of a religion that clearly draws a higher quotient of crazy than most faiths out there, is a better judge, you are sadly mistaken.

        • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

          Please, give me some substantial evidence that the Pagan community of religionS really do “draw a higher quotient of crazy” than any other religion out there. If you can, there might be a cookie in your future. I may have some serious issues with a lot of eople in the pagan community, but in my personal experience, I’ve met a higher degree of histionics amongst Evangelical Christians and even LaVeyan Satanists, not to mention dangerous people, than I ever met amongst other pagans.

          That said, did I say what you insinuate? Absolutely not, but you know what else? I do think that there should be community standards, especially for groups that gather together to practise their religionS, and that goes double, triple, for large pagan interfaith gatherings and events that typically attract a significant population of pagans (like Renn Faires). Why? Because communities have an obligation to their most vulnerable members. If you disagree, I really hope you don’t go to gatherings with especially vulnerable people in attendance.

          • Christian Day

            I have never been to a Pagan gathering short of a PPD, and such a single afternoon is more than I can stand of these people. I am so glad the client base of my three shops is 99% muggles. I think I would slit my wrists if I had to depend on them for my income.

  • Jo Pax

    I feel like I should raise my voice in light of all this…

    My name is Jo Pax. This man, Kenny Klein? That is my biological father.
    It has been some twenty years since I looked to him as a “dad,” and it’s been
    twenty two since my family left him. I’m not here to speak about what he did to
    me as a child. I’m not here to speak about the harms he inflicted on my mother
    and sister. I’m here to talk about what happened after we broke free. After our
    cries for help, we were lost in a sea of legal shadows and hearsay conjecture.
    This is about what that man’s influence has done to my adult life.

    So let me begin by explaining the discrepancy in surnames. Jo Pax was not
    my given name, though I would like to state for the record that my mother HAD
    intended to name me Joseph. Thanks, “pop.” No, I was born Jesse Klein. …I hate
    that name… Nothing against the Jesse’s and Klein’s of the world, in particular,
    it’s just… I always had trouble identifying with it. Jo Pax came about because
    of a very dark time in my life. Consider it a rite of passage; I forged a new
    self in the crucible of my psyche as years of repressed memories manifested in
    terrible ways. But I’m getting ahead of myself.

    The years immediately after my family fled Kenny’s hold were rough. My
    mother had two mouths to feed, and we got by mostly from the kindness of close
    friends that stuck by and shelters for battered women and children. They were
    hard years, but my family got through. Circumstance afforded us opportunities
    as time went on, and we all did our best to assimilate into suburban life. For
    those that knew what our life had been up till then, you can imagine the
    culture shock. For those that don’t? You have to keep in mind that for four
    years I was homeless. Not just any four years, but from the age of two and a
    half. Some VERY formative years! All I knew was the Pagan community, stage
    hands, and guitar cases. So being thrust into the Mighty Morphing Transformer
    Turtle youth of early suburban nineties? Yeah. I didn’t make friends easily. It
    wasn’t until I was almost…. Eight, I believe, that the memories of abuse and
    molestation first surfaced. So! Hands up if you think it was fun being the
    eight year old with a shaky grasp on social norms and no empathy for the
    plights of the spoon-fed-well-to-do youths I found myself surrounded by AND was
    dealing with the first echoes of a “father” that hurt you so badly! Anyone? No?
    Good. Cause it sucked. Like, a lot. So began a lifelong in-out relationship
    with the therapist’s chair.

    The worst part? I didn’t understand at the time the full scope of this
    all. I didn’t know him as Kenny, the spiritual leader. I didn’t see him as
    Kenny, the famous pagan musician. He was supposed to be my dad. Aren’t dads
    supposed to, like… Teach you to ride bikes, and take you to martial arts, or
    fly kites? I still talked to the man, on the phone occasionally, granted all visitations
    by this point were supervised. I couldn’t reconcile the two worlds in my mind.
    It broke parts of my head, and caused all manners of fog to form in my
    memories. For me, it was memories of a man that laughed at fairs and played on
    stage being collided with hands on my neck or bruises on my mother or… …No.
    I’ll spare you the worst of the few details I do remember. This. Crushed. Me.

    So let’s fast forward a few years and get into puberty. By now I rarely
    had any communication with Kenny. My mother had sole custody and I had dealt
    with enough therapy to know I didn’t like what he did to me when I was younger.
    (What’s more, any charges against him couldn’t be pursued because of gag
    orders, or lack of evidence, or Statute of Limitations… …I didn’t comprehend
    this at the time, mind you, but the price for getting free was my mother had to
    cut ties with the community at large and live with not prosecuting her abuser.)
    Through Junior High School and High School, my tentative acumen with what my
    peers considered normal made for a lonely existence. Despite statistics saying
    I should have been able to find a relatable friend, the population of the
    suburbia I found myself settled into, by and large, had no room for the son of Gypsies and even less empathy for a broken family. We’re talking… …Sometime around ’98-’00, by this point. And now? Now I could recognize that we were three,
    alone against a community that branded my mother’s cries for help as lies and
    without any support but for our dearest of friends. …And we had been for some
    time. This broke me in new ways. More therapists helped me with the blurred
    lines in my head that skewed my views of sexuality, identity, and social
    acceptability. I’m not saying I was a basket case at this point, but my head
    was a mess.

    So came High School and all its intricate social complexities. By now I
    wasn’t speaking to Kenny. In fact, it wouldn’t be until I was eighteen that he
    tried to contact me again. Also by now I had a grasp on two simple things;
    Kenny was a bad man that hurt me when I was young, and the childhood I
    experienced was not normal compared to those around me so I shouldn’t bring it
    up. Ok, hands up if you think it was fun being in High School and feeling
    ashamed of your childhood! Anyone? No? Good. Glad you’re still with me. So now
    all the little cracks in my head and fog in my memory really come to play. By
    my sophomore year (‘01), it was obvious that I wasn’t going to be the best
    student or make a ton of friends. By my junior year, I was sexually active and it
    dredged up new memories. I. Freaked. Out. Fresh hells crept into my dreams and
    the first of my sleep issues came about. By the time I was a senior I was
    living with anxiety beyond my coping ability. Then I get a birthday card from
    Kenny.

    I get it. Mom got full custody and after I cut him off he couldn’t reach
    out to me until I was eighteen. So of course he was going to. I should have
    expected no less. …But I didn’t see it coming. Nor did I see the fresh wave of
    terrors that haunted me every. Single. Night. Faceless demons, bodiless
    sensations, mind numbing panic. Somewhere deep down in my head, five-year-old
    Jesse was trying to get through, trying to get attention so he could heal. …But
    eighteen-year-old Jesse wanted no part of it. That life was ages ago. It wasn’t
    going to be who he was. It wasn’t going to dictate his future. So I shut it
    out, forced it down, didn’t want to deal with any of it. By the time I
    graduated I was having my first blackouts. Chunks of time went missing, and
    always I came to in precarious positions. Was I telling people about how I’d
    wake up on the bottom bunk of my bed in my room, the belt from my bathrobe tied
    around my neck and to the bunk above me? No. Was I alerting my friends and
    family to lost hours that ended with bruises on my hands or wrists or legs? No.
    In fact it wouldn’t be until I was nineteen that my family caught me. I came
    to, about to go to work, apparently, with a fresh bandage on my wrist. …It was
    later determined that I had gone to town on myself with a safety razor, of all
    things (very Empire Records)… Ok, Crisis Center time for Jesse!

    Pay close attention to the scene I paint for you, here. Because these are
    the last moments I let Kenneth Warren Klein have power over my suffering.

    The sterile glow of neon lights reflected off the piss stained tiles and
    matted walls of the small room I was placed in. Grey walls, dungy air, muffled
    murmurs from every adjacent room signifying the omnipresent sense of unyielding
    unease. I was allowed my mother and sister to come sit with me, but I wouldn’t
    be allowed to leave until a psychiatrist came to see me. …Given the late hour,
    I had some wait ahead of me. The only thoughts that were comprehensible in my
    head were of how I got there. How I didn’t understand what happened when I was
    so young, then to be not heard when I first cried out, then told to be quiet
    and I’ll be free of this monster, then to have memories haunt me, then to have
    this man reach out to me again… …I got it. I was crying out for help. I needed
    to know how to deal with this all. That’s what got me there. However,
    identifying a root cause and dealing with it are two separate matters. To calm
    my nerves as I awaited my release my sister provided gum wrappers and crayons
    to distract me. So was born the first seeds of Jo.

    The years that follow had troubles their own. Another influential male in
    my life was identified as a pedophile, and my realization of the inappropriate
    adult-child contact that had been a part of this man’s role in my life brought
    forward new tribulations for me and mine. Fortunately, I was an old hand at
    this, now. We cut ties, warned the ones we loved, and moved on. I was in
    therapy again, and delving into my love of music. Music was my saving grace.
    What started my junior year of High School with a passing interest in guitar had
    become, by this point, an obsessive love for my bass. To facilitate this love I
    sought the support of some friends to create a musical project that was
    inspired by my scribblings in the Crisis Center. “’Cool Blue’ Joe” became a
    stage name based off a doodle of a bassist that I keep to this day, and my band
    became an escape from the nights of endless nightmares. To which, I had gotten
    a sleep study done, around this point. Got a name put to the condition. Anyone
    familiar with parasomnia? It’s no bueno. My particular brand comes with night
    terrors, nightmares that occur in the subconscious cycles of sleep. Nightmares
    that are magnitudes more intense, bringing thrashing, sweating, and
    occasionally screaming to my nights. Nightmares that bring out every fear
    imaginable, but of which no detail will remain in your memory come morning. Better
    still? The only cure is psychological. That’s right… Gotta clear the cobwebs
    from your brain to get over this one. On the plus side, post High School life
    proved more accepting of my broken past.

    My early twenties were blessedly free of much of the world I knew. I grew
    into my own. I delved into music. My stage name became my identity. “’Cool
    Blue’ Joe” grew into “Jo Blu Pax.” I liken the transformation to many cultures
    that enjoy a rite of passage in your early adult years in which you choose a
    new name for yourself. Shedding the shackles of such severe sorrow that Jesse
    knew so well let Jo flourish. Bassist, Bhuddist, badass. Pax became my essence,
    as my life became a pursuit of peaceful existence. My nights were still haunted
    by unmemorable demons, but my days were finally becoming a life I was proud of.

    Some years back Kenny reached out once more. His bassist dropped out on a
    few gigs local to me, and he wanted to know if I wanted to fill in. “Wear my
    steampunk duds on stage.” No lie. …Needless to say, in a fit of blind rage I
    eviscerated the man in my response. This was the final moment in which he hurt
    me. Communication with him has always ushered its own panic attack. But as the
    final waves of anxiety and fear subsided, I stood proud. I told him, without
    hesitation, that I never wanted to hear from him again. I cut him out of my
    life entirely. I may not be able to see him pay for his crimes, but I at least
    could exact my own revenge in my own way. …Keep in mind, vengeance is not what brings me here today.

    Which brings me to the present. My years lived as Jo Pax have not been
    without trials all their own, but my life has been one I can stand behind. I’m
    still living with the after effects of Kenny’s hand in my life in the form of
    parasomnia, but otherwise I’m sound and sane. What’s more, in light of his
    arrest, I finally feel free. Free to speak, free to express, free from the
    fears of running into him at a convention or gathering or whatnot. I harbor no
    resentment to those that failed to hear the cries of me and mine all those
    years ago. I even harbor no resentment to the man responsible for my suffering.
    Forgiveness is a funny thing… And I was unable to give it for so long. But now?
    Now that the world he lives in is seeing him for who he is? Now that the man
    who flew under the radar for so long is being forced to face his
    transgressions? Maybe now I can let it all go. Move on. Heal completely.

    This was not easy for me to write, and, in all honesty, is a HIGHLY
    abridged rendition of my life till now. But the important parts are there. I
    survived. I grew. I get to end a generational cycle of violence. I get to be
    proud of everything I’ve done. I get to live a life as my own person, without
    defining myself by the suffering and misery I was exposed to so early in my
    life. I want to tell you about all the good that’s come of this;

    I’ve found positive, constructive ways to deal with the legacy that
    preceded me. Kenny’s anger and violence, behaviors maybe not everyone saw or
    knew about, stem from a long line of abuse going back at least two generations
    before him. Instead of letting that turn me into the same kind of monster, I’ve
    found a peace that can end it.

    I’ve learned how to cope with the tragedies I’ve been through. I’ve
    healed in so many ways, and am continuing an endless search for
    self-improvement.

    For those concerned that I may be squandering Kenny’s musical genetics,
    you’ll be happy to know that I am pursuing a life of luthiery. I shall be
    attending one of the finest schools of the trade as soon as I can save up the
    tuition, and will be making a life for myself surrounded by music.

    Above all else… I learned empathy and respect for the suffering of
    others. And that, above all else, is what I want you all to take from this.
    Seek out the walking wounded. Hear the cries of the injured. There are going to
    be shockwaves from this incident that none among us (no matter their talent for
    scrying) can predict. I may not be part of the community I once was, but I know
    that where people of like heart and like mind gather, there, too, are the Gods.
    Be there for those that need help.

    To close out I have a personal request to fulfil, that on part of my
    sister. If you know who I’m talking about, good. If not, read this anyways. She
    respectfully requests space. She tried to call out for help twenty two years
    ago, and cried out for many years to come. Her voice is tired. She is happy to
    see Kenny being called forward for his actions, but has no wishes to reconnect
    with the community at this time. Please… Leave her be.

    I, on the other hand, am ready to speak loudly and clearly. I am ready to
    help those that need my guidance, tell my story to those that need to hear it,
    and share any wisdom I can learn from the world at large. As I said before,
    maybe now I can heal completely. I have no resentment over the actions,
    inactions, words, or silence of the years past. I harbor no ill will to those
    who still don’t believe my story. I want to help how I can. I want to heal
    myself and those around me.

    If you do want to reach out to me, I ask that you private message me. And
    please, be patient. Understandably, these are emotionally tumultuous times, so
    choosing my words is of the utmost importance.

    Blessed be.

    • Lasara_Firefox_Allen

      Thank you for your words here. I, for one, needed deeply to read them. You have healed a part of me today too.

      • Jo Pax

        That was exactly what I set out to do. Please… If I can help in any other way, if I can support your path to healing to any extent, know that I am more than willing to do anything I can. This is the kind of support I was hoping my words would bring. Thank you for taking the time to read and understand them. All my best to you and yours.

    • Joy

      Thank you for sharing your story. I hope your words will be one more kick in the pants that the Pagan community needs when it comes to abuse.

      • Jo Pax

        It is my greatest hope that, above all else, the community at large takes this as a chance to heal, learn, and grow. Even the worst things in life offer a lesson to be taken. I stand with you, Joy. I may not be a part of the community like I once was, but I agree that this whole ordeal is EXACTLY the kind of thing we all need to learn from. It isn’t about us, even. It’s about the innocents that get hurt, and the eyes that look away.

        Thank you for reading my words and understanding.

    • Linda xx

      Thank you for telling your story. I knew your mom and Kenny back in the late 1980s, early 1990s. This is the only way I have to communicate with any of you now.

      Your family came and did a concert in Madison, WI in 1990, and I saw that you were being abused. I tried to get attention to the issue, and no one would listen to me, either. I had a reputation of aggressively noticing and rejecting abuse, and that reputation kept people from listening to me.

      The only thing I was able to do that weekend was to rescue your babysitter. I took her home from the concert with me, causing your mom and Kenny to be quite upset. Your family was staying with a good friend of mine, and I heard about the drama of the babysitter coming with me. I am sorry that you suffered that night so that one woman could get free.

      When Tzipora spoke out with her article on the abuse she suffered, I read it and responded to it with some of my own story of abuse from within the pagan community. We ( a few of us) tried to get the conversation to continue, and were glad of what she wrote. This was in the Druid publication, Notes from Tychopera (probably spelled wrong, I don’t have a copy in front of me right now).

      When I watched the concert I saw behavior between you and your sister that told me you were being sexually abused, and I could not get anyone to listen to me. There was nothing I could do except get the conversation going, try to get people to listen, and rescue the babysitter. I felt so helpless, and I cared so much for the small innocent children I could tell would be left with a heavy load to carry.

      Throughout my years in the pagan communities — which I myself left in 2008 due to sexual predation within the Craft community I was involved with — I tried to raise the topic of abuse, with Tzipora’s situation as a ready example, and I got repeatedly shot down. As I said, I got a reputation as one who would call out abuse when others claimed they could not see it.

      On an earlier post I made to this thread I posted an article on abuse that I had published in the pagan press back in 1989, The very fact that I was such a strong advocate in this area was used against me when I tried to get people to listen.

      I have thought of you often through the years. I also am a previously abused pagan, and I have ptsd from the abuse i experienced. Some of that ptsd includes very vivid memories of you and your sister from that weekend, and I so appreciate your writing this to let me know how things have gone for you.

      I am so completely sorry that I was ineffective with getting you any help.

      As I am sure you know, the very fact that you traveled so much helped hide the abuse, and helped keep it from being addressed. I am glad you are strong enough to speak out and share your history with us. Thank you. May the blessings of the Goddess heal and protect you from now until eternity.

      • Jo Pax

        Linda… I don’t know where to begin…

        First and foremost, that babysitter you saved that night? Don’t feel guilty. I would suffer the slings and arrows of Kenny’s wrath a thousand times over to save an individual life from that horror. You were incredibly brave, and I cannot thank you enough for the work you’ve done over the years. I am on beyond touched by your words, and I feel your frustrations. I don’t remember the time that my mother fought to be heard very vividly, but I do remember how crushed she was when it became apparent that all she could do was turn her back to those that branded her a liar. It was hard to move on from there, I do remember that…

        But that is all in the past. Life is about learning, about growing. And here we find ourselves in the perfect opportunity to close old wounds and heal together. I stand stronger, today, because of individuals like you that are crying out in the face of all that’s come to pass. I am brave because of souls like yours that make me feel stronger for taking my voice back, and all the more motivated to share my story. I live happily because there are good hearts like yours that will bend over backwards to save one life at a time. You are a hero this day, Linda. To me and all who read our words.

        Thank you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat C-B

      Thank you for sharing your truth, Jo.

      I have never met you, your family, or your abuser. If I had, I’m aware I might have missed entirely the signs of your pain. In spite of that, I am saddened and sorry that we have not been able to stand by you in the years you have been working to heal.

      I will hold your journey to wholeness in love and in Light. Gods bless.

      • Jo Pax

        One thing that’s very important to understand is that Kenny worked VERY hard to ensure people didn’t notice. Even if you had been there, it is entirely likely things would have played out the same. Do not be disheartened. This isn’t a time to feel guilty for the inactions or inabilities of times and events past. Now is the time to grow, and heal, and band together to prevent such atrocities from taking place again. I am truly touched by your compassion, and that warmth gives me strength to raise my voice. Thank you for taking the time to read my words and understand. And thank you for your kindness.

    • Kathryn

      Thank you Jo and Tzipora for speaking out, both then and now. I believe you.

      I am so sorry for what you’ve been through, and that so few people listened back then. I am one of the people who also left the community around the time you did, and the refusal on so many people’s part to take issues of abuse seriously played a big part in that.

      I knew you, Tzip and your sister only briefly when you were very young, but I have worried and prayed for you, ever since I heard what your mom had to say when you escaped Kenny’s grasp. Thank you for surviving, for speaking out, and for having courage in the face of such horror.

      • Jo Pax

        Thank you for your compassion. I am sorry that you, too, were failed by the community. But now is a time for regrowth and healing. Now is a time to learn and change. Whether or not our cries were heard those years ago isn’t important in light of the fact that we are heard now. We are strong because we band together. We are capable because we can draw from each other’s strengths. We will prevail because in unity we are unafraid. Stand tall, Kathryn. You’ve made a difference, now, and will continue to do so. My courage is yours, just as your support lends me resolve. Thank you for reading my words and understanding.

    • Artemis Spinoza

      Jesse (you will always be Jesse to me)

      Your father loved you very much, and you loved him until your mother started telling you things about him. I remember seeing you shortly after your parents split up. I was with a few other Blue Star initiates at the house where you and your mother and sister were staying. Your mother said, “Tell them what Kenny did to you.” You your face took on an odd, far away expression with a big smile. You looked around the room making eye contact with nobody, and you said, “He molested me.” I had seen that expression before. It was the look of Jesse in performance, making a pronouncement, play acting. There was no emotional content in your statement. Your mother hugged you, and you walked away, smiling.

      False memories can be implanted in an impressionable child. I believe that your mother did this to you. She destroyed a beautiful, loving relationship between a man and his son because she wanted to hurt the ex husband who no longer loved her.

      I’m sorry for all the pain you live with, but I don’t think you are pointing to the correct cause of it. Look to your mother, who taught you to think of your father as a monster. She is responsible for the trauma in your life.

      I hope you find peace.

      • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

        What the shit is wrong with you? Hasn’t this kid suffered enough? Don’t you think that the current scandal at least lends some validity to Jo’s accusations against Klein? Are you really that blinded by your loyalties to your human friendships that it would stand between something higher, like ethics?

      • Jo Pax

        Oh, Artemis… I knew something like this was coming. Fortunately, I’m prepared! So let’s begin!

        *ahem*

        How. Dare. You. First off, how dare you disrespect my rite of passage and deny me my chosen name. That’s disgraceful. Second, how DARE you defile my journey with accusations of falsified memories. That’s despicable. But more than anything…. How. Dare. You. Attack. My. Mother. You can sling any insult or slander you want at me, but my desire to speak out in NO way involves a woman whom obviously has far more integrity than you. (Don’t believe me? Read some of her comments, here. You’ll find no disrespect nor false accusations in her words. Unlike someone I’ve communicated with tonight.)

        Pardon me… Now that I’ve got that out of the way, let me address the core of what you said and how you’re oh so very, very wrong.

        I’m not going to give your summation of my “performance” a response. Though I would like to know what school you got your degree in Child Psychology from. …You *do* have a degree in Child Psychology, right? Otherwise, I’d like to know what makes you qualified to tell the difference between regurgitated memories and a terrified, numb, overwhelmed child dealing with unimaginable, indecipherable things the only way they know how. I’m willing to bet you’re lacking the credentials there. Anywho, let’s move on, shall we! The memories themselves… As I said in my story, I was eight when they first surfaced, again. Now, you’re obviously missed a few parts of what I wrote, so let me paraphrase the important stuff. Memories came flooding back, two years after we were already gone from the Pagan community. So by now, after the legal hells and countless hours scouring for a safe home with a significantly smaller support network than you might imagine, my mom has custody in exchange for not pressing charges. Cool, cool, cool. I also start therapy now. Here’s the funny thing, see. The therapists? They talked to me. For hours. Day in, day out. They talked to my mom, too. Now these people? THEY had degrees in Child Psychology! And THEY would have been able to find any discrepancies in what I was telling them (outside the sphere of any familial influence) and what my mother was telling them (usually immediately after my sessions, prior to my having any time to talk to her about what I said). Seems to me that after a couple years of that dog and pony show, someone would have piped up if the math didn’t add up. Oh wait! No one did! Know why? Because I was THERE. It happened to ME. Did it happen to you? Were you with us behind closed doors? Were you there for the days we spent cramped in the back of a modified Dodge Ram van that afforded not even leg room for a five and nine year old? NO! You weren’t! So I’m wondering what gives you the credentials to speak on the validity of my memories? Ooooh. That’s right. You can’t.

        Ok. That covers the memories and your “account” of my admission. What’s left, what’s left, what’s left… Oh! The “destroyed … beautiful, loving relationship between a man and his son…” Ok. That one? I’ma give you. Only you’re half right. That relationship was destroyed, alright, beyond repair. But it didn’t happen when and how you say it it did, and certainly not by my mother’s hand. It didn’t happen when Kenny made me play with myself for his amusement when I was four, five, six years old. It didn’t happen when he was still angry after battering my mother in front of my eyes, screaming, and lunging to wrap his hands around my neck. It didn’t happen when my mother finally said no more and left him, only to have backs of the people around her turn. It didn’t happen when the divorce was finalized and a scared, confused child was told he wasn’t going to see his “father” anymore without supervision. (Though by now, the “beautiful” was long since gone from our “relationship.”) Wanna know when it happened? Somewhere when I was around ten to twelve years old, I’d estimate. Sometime when I have the cognitive reasoning, the years of therapy, and the common sense to do a simple logic puzzle. Here, let’s see if you’re smart enough to figure that puzzle out;
        “A father is supposed to be loving toward his children. Can a father who beat, berated, molested, mortified, manhandled, forced into poverty, forced into desolation, denied steady meals, denied regular plumbing, and dragged his children from one corner of the map to the other with no stability at all, all for the sake of his music, be viewed as a ‘loving’ father?”
        Here’s the answer, in case you you can’t figure it out;
        “Not from the eyes of the broken shell of a child he leaves behind.”

        Alright… So! That leaves your final bit… You’re sorry for all the pain I live with… …Hmmm… Seems to me that’s a big load. Seems to me that someone who was sorry for a survivor’s suffering wouldn’t disrespect them by saying their entire life’s story was false, especially when said someone wasn’t present for the VAST majority of that life’s story. So, you can save your sympathies. The people that understand what I went through? I welcome their support. …..Idiots like you? Feh… You’re not my people.

        I hope you find peace.

  • Sea Serpent

    All perpetrators are creeps; many are just better at hiding it than others.

    • kenofken

      ALL successful predators excel at hiding it. They are, by and large, exceptionally charming and sympathetic figures. They know how to manipulate their victims, but more importantly, they know how to manipulate the rest of us to get by the safeguards which might otherwise deter them. They’re very, very good at cultivating an image of themselves as salt of the Earth, regular Joe family guy, beyond reproach. I used to be a journalist and covered the Catholic abuse scandal in some depth. In more than a few of those cases, the predator priest did not pluck some child away from his family. The parents willingly handed them over.

  • Chris

    Reading Vyviane Armstrong’s account in particular makes me think how the main thing is that we need to trust and honor young people’s instincts more. She told people behavior made her feel uncomfortable, and she was told it wasn’t a problem and he was just being friendly. Even if he *was* just being friendly, and all this other stuff hadn’t come out, the fact that his way of “being friendly” was making people uncomfortable should have been enough to challenge him to change it.

    • Lēoht “Sceadusawol” Steren

      Agreed.

      I am, by nature, a flirtatious person who uses a lot of innuendo in casual conversation. A couple of years ago, a work colleague reported me to management because I was making “inappropriate comments”. Fortunately, the management knew what I am like and had a calm discussion with me rather than just calling me a predator.

      I felt genuine distress that I had made a person I considered a friend uncomfortable and made an effort to adjust my behaviour around the individual.

      My point is that there are people like myself who may not quite realise the lines of propriety and need a gentle nudge to adjust behaviour and, if someone nudged does not adjust, then we can see the potential for concern.

      In short “It’s just how they are” is never an adequate reason for ignoring someone’s concerns.

      • Tzipora Katz

        There is the problem: people were ignored. Repeatedly. And when is it ever appropriate to touch a young child? And don’t you think part of being an adult is to know the differences between appropriate comments used with adults versus children? Adults can speak up far more easily.
        We are dealing with two different things. Behavior around children and behavior around adults. KK is somewhat rare in that he made both uncomfortable and I personally know of two women who reported him on “date rape” charges in PA in 1992 but without physical evidence no actions were taken. Even though the same police had charges of child molestation and were aware of my own Protection From Abuse order.
        That was devastating on its own merit. To have the “community” not believe us was more than we could bear.
        So, how do you move forward and not ignore those concerns when the person accused is a “well respected elder?”
        I wish I had the answers. I do know it begins with listening and wiping the stardust from your eyes.

  • http://www.canadianwitch.com Crystal MsCanadianWitch

    I applaud you for getting all of the facts out there as they come in. I myself have deleted him from facebook, will not purchase any of his music or books, and will not support any event or organization who supports him in any way shape or form.

    I have had one of Klein’s children contact me through the youtube video I created on this subject thanking me for standing up and speaking out. THIS is why we must be strong and stand up against people like him, for the victims who are too afraid to do it on their own.

    This is the video I made an I urge anyone who feels compelled to do a video response and get the word out!

    http://youtu.be/X2LZq2E22_s

    Blessed be )O(
    Crystal MsCanadianWitch

    • Tzipora Katz

      I too appreciate you speaking out.
      Blessings.

  • Guest

    So perhaps not only should we boycott his books, but perhaps ask Youtube to suspend any payments being made to him.

    Curiosity got the better of me and I discovered he has a YouTube channel and his Google+ activity feed features many comments to what appear to be very young or possibly minor (hard to tell really since their birth date is not exactly on their channels) girls video posts. Many of the videos made by these girls are childlike and innocent in nature, which, under the harsh light of his recent wrongdoings now screams of a child predator (at least to me). For example the posts by cutesy doll enthusiasts strikes me as quite a strange interest for a 50+ year old man. Some of the responses are even soliciting the channel owners to come visit him.

    If you care to be sick you can read some of the posts here: https://www.youtube.com/user/kennyfiddler/feed

    I do ask however that you do not play any videos uploaded by his person as this may generate revenue for him and therefore ultimately support him.

    I wouldn’t know how to get YouTube to suspend payments to him, or make them aware of this, but perhaps one of you does. Or perhaps that’s not whats best.

    For the record I had no idea who this guy was until I read about the arrest.

    • Christina

      Annnnd apparently I wasn’t signed in so the changes I attempted to make didn’t stick and now I’m stuck with the longer link which embeds a player I can’t get rid of! CURSES!

      Please don’t click this link!

  • Christina

    So perhaps not only should we boycott his books, but perhaps ask Youtube to suspend any payments being made to him.

    He has a YouTube channel and his Google+ activity feed features many comments to what appear to be very young or possibly minor (hard to tell really since their birth date is not exactly on their channels) girls video posts. Many of the videos made by these girls are childlike and innocent in nature, which, under the harsh light of his recent wrongdoings now screams of a child predator (at least to me). For example the posts by cutesy doll enthusiasts strikes me as quite a strange interest for a 50+ year old man. Some of the responses are even soliciting the channel owners to come visit him.

    If you care to be sick you can read some of the posts here youself his profile name is ” So perhaps not only should we boycott his books, but perhaps ask Youtube to suspend any payments being made to him.

    He has a YouTube channel and his Google+ activity feed features many comments to what appear to be very young or possibly minor (hard to tell really since their birth date is not exactly on their channels) girls video posts. Many of the videos made by these girls are childlike and innocent in nature, which, under the harsh light of his recent wrongdoings now screams of a child predator (at least to me). For example the posts by cutesy doll enthusiasts strikes me as quite a strange interest for a 50+ year old man. Some of the responses are even soliciting the channel owners to come visit him.

    If you care to be sick you can read some of the posts here: /user/kennyfiddler/feed

    (the link was truncated because it kept inserting one of his videos in an embedded player below which is NOT what I wanted to do! You need to put in the YouTube bit before it)

    I do ask however that you do not play any videos uploaded by his person as this may generate revenue for him and therefore ultimately support him.

    I wouldn’t know how to get YouTube to suspend payments to him, or make them aware of this, but perhaps one of you does.

    For the record I had no idea who this guy was until I read about the arrest.

    I do ask however that you do not play any videos uploaded by his person as this may generate revenue for him and therefore ultimately support him.

    I wouldn’t know how to get YouTube to suspend payments to him, or make them aware of this, but perhaps one of you does.

    For the record I had no idea who this guy was until I read about the arrest.

    • Christian Day

      You pretty much guaranteed people will play them and that he’ll then get revenue.

      • Christina

        youyoutubr.The subject matter is text which I refer to. Text comnents on other peoples videos. And this is the first time I have ever had a thought I felt safe adding to the pagan community.

        Apparently my thoughts suck. I will go back to shutting up. And I will edit and remove all content in relation to youtube other than: perhaps someone can get Google to suspend his account somehow pending investigation.

        I appologize if through my thoughts to remove this mans music entirely other people decide to watch this mans music. Although I will say I don’t think this is what I did or in fact was trying to do.

        • Tzipora Katz

          I feel and validate your frustration!

        • Christian Day

          I’m really not trying to be mean. I get what you’re trying to do, but the reality is, any of us, including me, that go there is gonna watch the video. Curiosity is too powerful an emotion to ignore most times. :)

  • Valerie

    I have had my share of “creepers” in many different religions but it sucks extra when a spirituality/practice that already has a socially questionable reputation due to prior stereotypes, myths, and poor social reputation has the potential to get knocked down another notch by an alleged sexual predator. I will keep on keeping on with my practice that tries to lift up our variety of communities be they pagan, heathen, etc. but dammit, if your kids come up to you and say some asshole no matter if they are the grand high poobah of the universe is touching them or treating the inappropriately, believe them.

  • Artemis Spinoza

    By making statements for this article, Tzipora Katz has violated a court-imposed gag order. Her statements about Kenny are libelous. There will be consequences.

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      It’s not libel when it’s true –but then you don’t seem to pay much mind to facts.

    • Jo Pax

      Check your paper trail. All gag orders involving my mother were centered around custody battles. Guess what? I’m LONG since over eighteen.

  • Gina Ellis

    Is it libel if it’s true?

    • http://www.oddmodout.com/ Ruadhán J McElroy

      No.