That Time Kirk Cameron Infiltrated a Druid Ritual

Jason Pitzl-Waters —  March 6, 2012 — 154 Comments

Why, in the name of all that is good and holy, is anyone still paying attention to Kirk Cameron? In what way is this former teen television star turned laughable Christian caricature relevant enough to our culture to get a primetime interview slot on CNN? Does anyone really care about his views on homosexuality or same-sex marriage? The stark truth is that his once familiar face, tied to his evangelical Christian views, are the only thing keeping him on the fame radar (albeit in a d-list reality-television manner). However, since there are still folks out there who seem to take Mr. Cameron seriously for some reason, here’s a gold-plated proof that no one, not even the most fervent Christian “Growing Pains” star, should give his “crocoduck” theology mainstream attention.

Crocoduck proves God exists!

Crocoduck proves God exists!

In 2006, Cameron used his “excellent acting talents” to “infiltrate” a Druid ritual. Specifically, a ritual put on by Ravens Cry Grove (part of Ár nDraíocht Féin) in Southern California. Cameron and Ray “Banana” Comfort secretly recorded the ritual, and lied about secretly recording the ritual when questioned about it (because it’s OK to lie to non-Christians apparently). You can download the show, here. You can also find an edited version of the segment, here.

Ravens Cry Grove (part of Ár nDraíocht Féin).

Ravens Cry Grove, the folks Kirk Cameron were concerned might sacrifice him.

Cameron says he thought he got out of there “by the skin of his teeth,” insinuating that he felt endangered by a group of California Druids singing, chanting, and sharing fellowship. This is the man who CNN wants to talk about religion with. This is the man Piers Morgan calls “brave” and “honest” for spouting the same old conservative Christian party line about marriage and homosexuality that has fallen increasingly out of favor in the United States. The bitter truth is that Cameron is a sad has-been who depends on someone, anyone, finding him offensive so he can feed his attention-starved ego for a few moments more. Even sadder, mainstream media outlets are obliging, when they could have picked from a thousand theologians, scholars, or religious leaders to opine about morality or marriage. Instead, we have the star of “Left Behind 2: Tribulation Force.”

In the future, when CNN or any other major news network decide to give Kirk Cameron precious airtime that could be used to discuss serious issues, or talk with actually important figures, just remember they are instead bolstering the limping career of a man who thought infiltrating a Druid grove in California was a dangerous and worthwhile activity. Cameron’s views on marriage and homosexuality are offensive to me, but I’m almost as offended by the media outlets who seem to think giving him a spotlight is a good idea.

ADDENDUM: When I wrote this post yesterday, I quoted a site called “Objective: Ministries.” It seems they are a hoax website that  specializes in blurring the line between parody and reality. Kirk Cameron really did “infiltrate” a Druid ritual, and really did a radio show where he bragged about his ability to fool the Druids, but the rhetoric I quoted from Objective: Ministries is not “real.” Though, it sounded so like Christian rhetoric I’ve heard elsewhere that I didn’t even think to double-check it. So, in short, I was punked. I’ve removed quotations from that site, leaving everything else intact. Mea Culpa.

Send to Kindle

Jason Pitzl-Waters

Posts

  • http://twitter.com/Pagantalkshow Tim Workman

    As a Druid i cant help but laugh.. The Christian fundementalists , well its apparent that they will never learn

    • http://sonneillon-v.livejournal.com/ Sonneillon

      IKR? I’m laughing my ass off. Those were the funniest needless over-dramatics I’ve seen in ages.

      *spooky eyes and jazz hands* Do not attempt a Druid Infiltration yourself! They might CHANT at you!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1401399744 Kristen Sherman

    I think I just got dumber for reading that little narration. The willful ignorance of him and folks like him is staggering.

  • http://twitter.com/KulkulkanX Thomas Valdez

    I love the language he uses, saying the Grove has a “complete lack of Christ”.
    Duh! This is like saying the local Catholic Mass has a “complete lack of Buddha”.

    • Thriceraven

      I’m totally stealing that line… hope you don’t mind.

      Similar to a conversation I had with a friend recently. She read me a quote from Santorum about how “Romney’s platform is not based on the Bible” (paraphrasing). I replied by that Santorum’s campaign isn’t based on the Bhagavad Gita either.

  • Vyviane Armstrong

    Wow, that is so horrible. However I will say that the druids in question came off sounding fantastic and I am proud that those voices were the ones representing us, even if those voices were taken in an unethical way. Thank you to the A.D.F and Raven’s Cry Grove.

  • http://twitter.com/NoPants_McGee Christina McPants

    I can’t believe I’m about to type this, but…

    In Piers Morgan’s defense, he basically said that Kirk Cameron was brave to be so public about his bigotry and honest to his beliefs. Not that he’s rescuing children from burning buildings and declaring that he chopped down a cherry tree.

    Why Piers Morgan is lending credibility to Cameron by having him on his show is another issue. (I’d argue that Cameron’s an attention whore who thrives off of scandal, so there’s not really bravery involved, but anyway)

    • Halla

      It isn’t brave at all to share bigotry in a bigoted society. Braver would be him saying ‘you know what, I was wrong, other people are still people even if we don’t agree on everything’. I am also tickled at the notion that Piers Morgan can lend credibility to *anyone*. :-)

    • Anonymous

      Piers Morgan? Isn’t he the guy that was involved in Rupert Murdoch’s news empire scandal? The one that really hemmed and hawed on the stand? And the one who does some half-baked talent reality TV? Yeah, he’s real credible, LOL. Anyone who takes him seriously isn’t paying attention.

  • Dscarron

    This isn’t legal advice but I think a local attorney should take a look at the potential false light and/or defamation claim here by the druids against these people. I think that the anti-defamation folks may have the opportunity to do some real advocacy here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.j.thornton Susan Thornton

    Do not attempt a Druid infiltration on your own!

    ROFL. Thanks for the laugh, Jason! The more we laugh, the less power they have.

    • Veracity

      I would say “Do not attempt a Fundie infiltration on your own!” You might literally be risking a burning at the stake, far worse that your worst nightmares of what this gentle Druid circle would do to you!

  • Francesca

    I have heard this interview before, and I think that if I were NOT a Pagan or Druid, it would definitely make me all the more curious and determined to seek it out. He doesn’t really manage to make the Druids look bad.

  • http://profiles.google.com/thorncoyle T Thorn Coyle

    Thanks for giving me a laugh today, Jason!

    • http://profiles.google.com/thorncoyle T Thorn Coyle

      The more I read that long central quote, the harder I laugh.

      Don’t poke the Druids, they might bite!

      • http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

        “contact your Church and have them send a team of trained Occult investigators to assess the situation”

        • http://www.facebook.com/KveldulfThorsFreyrssonStormcloudWormwood Gary P Golden Jr
        • A.C. Fisher Aldag

          Someone tried that with our group… sent undercover police to “infiltrate”… we realized that when a group member, who is a police officer, recognized them. Hardly necessary, as first responders get into events free…!

        • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.shingler Wayne Shingler

          Who ya gonna call? DRUID BUSTERS!

          • Thelettuceman

            Meet the E-Team: An old priest, a young priest, a Vatican pilot, and Mr. T.

        • http://sonneillon-v.livejournal.com/ Sonneillon

          *LMFAO* Because every church has a team of Trained Occult Investigators(tm) on-hand, ready to be dispatched at a moment’s notice!

          • http://brock-tn.dreamwidth.org/ Blake Kirk / Brock

            Seems to me that there’s a market niche there that’s screaming to be filled: I mean, we pagans already know about the occult, right? So why not start a company to provide those teams of trained occult investigators to churches that need them? For a not-entirely-unreasonable fee, of course…

          • http://sonneillon-v.livejournal.com/ Sonneillon

            Honestly? Because I’d have to fake Christian Cred. I’ve done that for about half my life, it was exhausting, I have no interest in going back even for money.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1006464595 Cathryn Bauer

            I say charge the unreasonable fee.

          • Patrick Barry

            I can see the commercial now. Picture a Televangelist type in a brown suit and fake hair. With spooky music playing over him.

            Are your children being disobedient at home?
            Do they not want to go to church?
            Has your daughter started to wear jeans instead of her prairie dress?
            Has your son started to hug trees?
            Call 1-800-724-6466 Today!
            We have experienced occult investigators on-call 24/7 for you indoctrination needs!
            Get your kids back into church and right with Christ, call 1-800-724-6466 now!
            Thats 1-800 pagn-b-gon!!!!

          • Anonymous

            Actually, I think a lot of them do. I mean, not your local Methodist church (but they aren’t much concerned with what other religions do) but the big mega-churches that are affiliated with the NAR. The giveaway phrase is:

            “… may involve more intense forms of Spiritual Warfare such as exorcism or prayer-circling…”

            Definitely New Apostolic Reformation language, and yes, they DO have Prayer Warriors ready to take on “occultists” of any kind. They claim to have caused “witches” to contract cancer and die through their imprecatory prayers. I think they’re full of it, but THEY believe it.

            For them, religious tolerance is a terrible sin. They must convert you (or in their ideal world, kill you). Sad people, but dangerous. Ironic that they think P/pagans are.

        • Anonymous

          K: I’ll call the police.
          M: Shouldn’t you call the church?
          S: Call the church police!
          K: All right. (shouting) THE CHURCH POLICE !!

          (sirens racing up, followed by a tremendous crash) (the church police burst in the door)

          Detective: What’s all this then, Amen!
          M: Are you the church police?
          All the police officers: (in unison) Ho, Yes!
          M: There’s another dead bishop on the landing, Vicar Sargeant!
          Detective: Uh, Detective Parson, madam. I see… suffrican, or diocisian?
          M: ‘Ow should I know?
          D: It’s tatooed on the back o’ their neck. (spying the tart) ‘Ere, is that…. rat tart?
          M: yes.

          (pause)

          D: Disgusting! Right! Men, the chase is on! Now we should all kneel!

          (they all kneel)

          All: O Lord, we beseech thee, tell us ‘oo croaked Leicester!

          (thunder)

          Voice of the Lord: The one in the braces, ‘e done it!

          Klaus: It’s a fair cop, but society’s to blame.

          Detective: Agreed. We’ll be charging them too.

          • Patrick Barry

            I loves me some Python. I had forgotten abot that sketch. Thank you very much!

          • Veracity

            No one expects the Kirk Cameron Inquisition!

      • http://www.angelsparrow.com valarltd

        Most won’t bite without a safeword. My girlfriend is a Druid, so I find all this hilarious.

      • Anonymous

        I saw it in a video game! They can poly-morph into a bear and maul people!!1!

        • Mia

          We’re going to need to bring Arnold Schwarznegger in then.

        • Karen Carothers

          Bwahh ha haaa… that’s the biggest reason I’ve played Druid on World of Warcraft… actual religious leanings notwithstanding… :)

  • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

    “suggest a course of remediation — which can be as simple as cutting down the trees the Druids worship,””

    Yes let’s cut down those damn Satan bearing trees! Oxygen for the environment? Who cares, THIS IS SATAN WE ARE FIGHTING AGAINST.

    If I had a Tardis I would travel back in time and tell my pre-teen self that Kirk Cameron is a vile human being and to tear down all of my BOP posters. Bah.

    • http://twitter.com/PhoenixGrove Phoenix Grove

      It wouldn’t be the first time. During the lead up to prohibition, Carrie Nation claimed to be guided by god to carry her hatchet, and supporters cut down apple trees because they might be used to make cider.

    • Veracity

      Druids are so dangerous that one should not attempt infiltration without proper occult training, Kirk Cameron feared for his life so much that he had to use his Mighty Morphin Acting Powers to get out alive, but cut their trees down and the Evil Druids become powerless?

      Who knew?

  • http://www.facebook.com/KveldulfThorsFreyrssonStormcloudWormwood Gary P Golden Jr

    from one of the hyperlinks…

    Dr. Troy Franklin, OBJECTIVE occult expert, has brought to our attention a disturbing new danger to weak-spirited Christians and unsaved persons that we feel needs to be reported.

    As he tells it, while out at a local supermarket shopping for food for his cat, Dr. Franklin noticed one of those small tents advertising “Free Rock Chip Repair” that have been springing up in our nation’s parking lots. Curious, he went to enquire about getting a ding in his windshield sealed, only to learn that the person manning the tent had other intentions, namely to try and recruit Dr. Franklin into a cult!

    Fortunately, the good doctor has become quite immune to cultic recruiting ploys from his years studying their tactics, and thus he was able to extricate himself from the situation with his soul unharmed. However, those less skilled in their Faith — and especially those of false faiths or no faith at all — would have soon found themselves back at the cult headquarters doing all manner of unspeakable rites and blasphemies… or maybe even brainwashed into manning a tent of their own.

    For the safety of your soul, do not be tempted by the lure of impulse rock chip repair from strangers in parking lots. It may say free, but it could cost you your soul! If you need your windshield fixed, go to a qualified Christian repair shop.

    this is just a goldmine folks…

    • http://www.facebook.com/susan.j.thornton Susan Thornton

      I just looked at that site… a veritable wealth of funny!

    • Laura M. LaVoie

      I think the good Dr. Franklin misunderstands the difference between a “Cult” and a “pyramid scheme”.

      • Anonymous

        There’s a difference??? Amway reps I knew sure made it seem like a cult!

        • Anonymous

          It actually is a cult. Several of those mlm/pyramid scheme groups have pages on cult watching/ex-cult support sites.

    • Anonymous

      They are afraid – maybe – that someone with better “persuasive” techniques than their own will win adherents! Have you ever read Dick Sutphen? If not, do! Very interesting, and will have you very aware of your surroundings at meetings of all kinds.

      Here’s one link (there are others):

      http://www.trans4mind.com/spiritual/brainwashing.htm

    • Veracity

      “…the good doctor has become quite immune to cultic recruiting ploys from his years studying their tactics, and thus he was able to extricate himself from the situation with his soul unharmed.”

      Ah yes, but did he get out with his foil hat intact?

      It’s funny, the but only time I have seen credible news stories of actual cults, they have all worn “christian” labels, no matter how twisted. From Jim Jones to David Koresh. I guess the “real” pagan cults are really good at hiding from the media.

  • Dver

    Is it not illegal to record someone without their knowledge or permission?

    And what was the point of that highly dangerous secret mission? It’s not as if ADF is some underground group – I’m sure Cameron could have learned all he wanted about their theology and ritual methods from various websites. It’s gross that the media would give air time to someone who gleefully admitted to violating the trust of people in a religious setting – imagine the uproar if someone did that to a Christian group!

    • Francesca

      The laws vary from state to state. In my state, you can record a conversation if you are one of the people having the conversation. The other person does not need to be informed. At least, that was the case 6 or 7 years ago.

    • http://twitter.com/PhoenixGrove Phoenix Grove

      In California, you cannot secretly record audio from a person without their express consent. It is a gray area if it is in a public place, but ADF would likely have no chance at enforcing that as a violation.

      • Bennett

        You can if the event is public and if there is more than two people present during the conversation. That was the case at that ritual since I was there and was a member of the grove in question. Believe me, we were on it and seeking information regarding litigation. In the end, except for copyright infringement on a song or two, nothing much could be done and it wasn’t worth it anyway. Besides, I’m sure the Welsh gods he mocked will help us out on that count anyway. The behavior by him and Ray Comfort was despicable; they also brought several large guys to back them up. We knew who they were but felt our ritual which focused primarily on gratitude was tame enough for them to relate to. The place in question, too, was a former Boy Scout Camp and is a park. Go figure.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1006464595 Cathryn Bauer

          Congrats to you and your grove for the class and restraint you showed in this strange situation.

  • Ravynwolfe

    Incredibly stupid. Puts the name Christian to shame. I am both Wiccan and Christian and I think this “man” is depending on lies to prop up his life.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=769344447 Amanda Armstrong

    Well, the would have a heck of a time “remediating” me…. I live on a tree farm. ; ) Be careful, they are trained attack oaks.

    Honestly, it’s so hilarious I’m having trouble being upset.

  • Anonymous

    Did anybody tell them that ADF rituals are open to the public?

    • http://profiles.google.com/vanye111 Jason Hatter

      But..but…we’re DRUIDS. We must OBVIOUSLY be a secretive cult. Right? Right? Practicing human sacrifice and all that.

      *member, Cedarsong Grove, ADF, Lansing, MI*

  • Zan Fraser

    You know, there’s a local NYC ADF group that holds public rituals during the summer in Central Park. It’s not really necessary to infiltrate this group, cause you know, there they are, in Central Park. Presumably not sacrificing many humans, cause you know, it’s Central Park.

    • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

      Do they still do open rituals? Haven’t seen a listing on Witchvox in a bit (whenever I struggle with wanting to go out more into the local community it’s always because I want to attend an ADF rite)

      • Zan Fraser

        Hey Vermillion- oh yeah, they’re still very active. I’m not sure how much of a presence they have on Witchvox, but I know they have a Yahoo Group page.

        • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

          Yeah? Might have to check that out then, thanks :D

  • Lady GreenFlame

    At first glance – and then second glance — hell, third glance — I thought this was *surely* a parody, that maybe The Onion had slipped something in under Kirk C.’s name. I – well – okay, jaw dropped here at the vastness and mightniness of this idiocy; wordless in the face of the stupidity.

    • A.C. Fisher Aldag

      Me, too… I originally ignored that Druid article, thinking it was a parody or a joke. Well, I reckon some Druids might act a tad dangerous, if someone was to trespass on their land and cut down old-growth trees without permission…!

      • http://twitter.com/PhoenixGrove Phoenix Grove

        This druid doesn’t say “Peace” during ritual, and I’m a damned good shot.

    • Anonymous

      falls under the umbrella of Poe’s Law I think..

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

  • Veronight

    Wow they look so dangerous! LOL

  • Noindne

    I agree ignore Mr Cameron

  • http://egregores.blogspot.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Kirk Cameron is pretty typical of Evangelical Christians, and they represent the future of Christianity.

    Cameron is not a side-show. He is part of the main attraction.

    • Anonymous

      Well, the wording is pure NAR in that quote. I think Cameron affiliates with them. There are big rifts in Evangelical Christianity, and many of the more “traditional” ones see a lot of the NAR activity as suspect. If you start googling you will find a lot of websites that have content calling each other’s dogma “heresy”. We can still hope they will eventually self-destruct, though I personally am not laying odds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emairelhd Emairelhd Eartheart

    Here is a link to a copy of the podcast before it was pulled for those of you who’d like to have a listen: http://soundcloud.com/emairelhd-eartheart/kirk-cameron-misunderstanding “The Way of the Master” radio has since pulled the segment, saying that listeners were trying to “infiltrate” local groves so they felt they were in danger… I’m not even going to comment on that. Anyway, if you can stomach the Christian elitism, have a listen, its actually mildly humorous if you have that type of laugh in you ;)

    • Reverend Greenhat

      Wow, I managed to listen through the entire thing, but it wasn’t so enraging, rather it was kinda sad. They made no effort to understand what someone was saying, only on the words being used, and was trying to fit another’s belief system into their own view and not finding that 2+2=4 but rather a completely different answer because it was a completely different system.

      I cannot imagine people being so close minded. The must see the entire world in either black or white, not for the colors found within.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emairelhd Emairelhd Eartheart

    for a second i thought i was on reddit and was about to say – upvotes for the dr. who drop. but im not on reddit, so you get a like, lol. i also laughed a lot at the satan trees ;)

  • David Crawford

    As a member of Ár nDraíocht Féin I find this both comical and infuriating. This goes to show that Mr. Cameron has not bothered at all to research Ár nDraíocht Féin (ADF) because we have nothing to do with blood or living creature sacrifice (this includes humans). We simply come together for peaceful worship of Mother Earth and the Kindred.

    What a sad little man that he feels the need to attack a religion that follows what it preaches unlike him. So keep up your sad little tyrannic actions, it only makes you look uneducated and completely insane!

    • http://www.facebook.com/KveldulfThorsFreyrssonStormcloudWormwood Gary P Golden Jr

      “This goes to show that Mr. Cameron has not bothered at all to research Ár nDraíocht Féin (ADF) ”

      whoa whoa whoa…you *expected* him to?

      really?

  • kenneth

    It’s a pity he’s too young to be able to have infiltrated Jonestown or Waco…..

  • Hammerkast

    I didnt think this guy was even still news. *insert giant “ugggghhhhh” here*

    • Thelettuceman

      He wasn’t until, like, last night.

  • Thoth1978

    Some clarification is needed since this happened a while ago and some things have been flushed down the memory hole.

    The block-quoted text is from Objective Ministries, who are not associated with Kirk Cameron (or probably anyone), so that’s their independent take on the events.

    The audio was a segment from the Sept. 25, 2006 pod cast of “Way of the Master Radio”, which seems to be defunct and their archives removed. It originally was part of the full episode (a copy of which can be found at http://tawodi.org/), but after they started taking heat for it, they quietly snipped the segment out of the archived episode (making it ~15 minutes shorter than the others) without any mention of doing so.

    • Baruch Dreamstalker

      “Objective Ministeries?” Sounds like Ayn Rand with liturgy.

      • Anonymous

        Now THAT is funny!! ;oD

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=728865973 Crystal Groves

      Hence why I grabbed the mp3 and put it up on http://tawodi.org as soon as I heard it just in case it was removed due to backlash. Which is exactly what they did, figures. We need to keep history like this in mind to better prepare/educate ourselves, in my humble opinion :)

    • Anonymous

      A lot of these Christian right groups get unwanted light/heat from “the World” and fade away only to resurface with a new name. Not sure about this one without researching it.

      Kirk Cameron is a Dominionist of some stripe or another, not a pre-millenialist, so while he may not be affiliated with the particular group responsible for the quote, they sing from the same sheet of music.

  • Thelettuceman

    This wouldn’t be nearly as funny to me if I hadn’t had just watched the “Ghostfacers” episode of Supernatural..

  • Knottydragon

    “Infiltrate” is an interesting word choice, given that ADD High Day rites are required to be open to the public. How do you infiltrate something that has no hidden agenda?

    • Knottydragon

      Aggh, ADF, I hate auto correct.

      • http://en-pi.facebook.com/steward John Deltuvia

        I’ve been picking up bits and pieces of Isaac Bonewits’ estate as Phaedra’s been auctioning them on eBay… and given their eclecticism, ADD might actually be appropriate… :-)

    • http://snaegl.wordpress.com/ Snaegl

      Actually, that typo just made my day!

    • SpottedToad

      Ooo ADD High Days. I gotta try those.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sean-TheDruid/100001234661081 Sean TheDruid

        Between you and I Toad, that might very well be the case.

        • http://profiles.google.com/vanye111 Jason Hatter

          Squirrel!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=585826544 Adam Birch

    Election cycles certainly bring out the crazies.

    I hadn’t happened across this buffoon before. I particularly enjoyed the “remediation” bit of the quote. By all means pop round for a cup of tea and a chat but touch my trees and the Police will be round tout suite.

    I wonder if anyone has pointed out to Mr Cameron that “Left Behind 2: Tribulation Force” sounds like a porn movie title…?

    • Anonymous

      In a way, it IS porn. Just not the sexual kind.

  • Merofled Ing

    “Thank you to the A.D.F and Raven’s Cry Grove.” This.

    Cameron and Comfort are like stupid kids throwing mud at a swan. The swan remains beautiful, they remain stupid.

    I also clicked on the second ‘here’ link to a black page displaying ‘forbidden’ ‘do not click’ etc. in red. However, I did click, and oh, I’m in trouble!
    I have ‘displayed a tendency to desire that which is not allowed and is prohibited’. I could have ‘browsed freely through millions of other Web pages’, but I decided to disobey.
    (My computer is god, after all.)
    Just as I entered this forbidden site, ‘so also did Adam and Eve eat from the forbidden tree’.
    I’m confused. Is entering their site a bad thing? If it isn’t, were Eve and Adam doing the right thing?
    But since I was clearly forbidden from entering their site, and since this was a bad act of disobedience, I will leave it, and ‘so go now and sin no more’.

    In fact, I think I’ll have an apple now. Before they cut the tree down.
    Which is where it ceases to be funny.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.w.morehead John W. Morehead

    What can I say to add to this other than thanks for describing him as a Christian caricature? But I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.w.morehead John W. Morehead

    I just listened to the radio piece. Oh, my. What an example of belittling and misunderstanding another’s religion. At least it makes those of us hoping to see Pagans at the world religions dialogue table, and trying to bring Pagans and Christians together for appropriate forms of dialogue and relationships: http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Burning-Times-Christian-Dialogue/dp/0745952720/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331068958&sr=8-1

  • Micheleg

    Kirk and Ray are so awesome for infilterating a public ritual and then making fun of it publicly. All Christians should strive to set such an example. (not).

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    That’s a real dangerous-looking coven. Oooo….

  • Danacorby

    Alas, the links have been redirected to Christian propaganda messages. If anyone finds the original recording again, please let me know…

  • Zan Fraser

    Can I infiltrate a Fundamentalist Church service and peddle a news-story about how I just barely escaped by the skin of my teeth? Hmm- a thought.

    • Zan Fraser

      No, wait, I really think I’m on to something here: as a Secret Pagan Undercover Agent, I was investigating this cult that believes they eat their Deity; when I accidentally placed my cover in danger by going, Whoa, Harsh philosophy: Suffering Witches Not to Live. They grew angry and suspicious, accusing me of being a Pagan Infiltrator. I don’t mind telling you, Pagan friends, that I was frankly alarmed for my safety. However, due to my Superior Acting Skills, I was able to burst into “Jesus Loves Me, This I Know”- and so escape, barely with my life. Think CNN will go for this?

      • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

        I imagine you would find a complete lack of the Goddess and no concept of magic. lol

      • Karen Carothers

        Go with “Secret Pagan Undercover Detective”. Then you can shorten it to SPUD. :)

        • Zan Fraser

          You’re right; that’s much better than SPUA. Why didn’t I see that?

  • Rachel M.

    They *do* look rather dangerous…particularly the baby.

    • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

      I’m pretty sure that the baby is eyeing that woman’s brain in a hungry way.

      • Katie Berger Tremaine

        braaaaaaaaaains…

  • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

    For some reason I’m picturing all Pagan rituals being guarded from Christian infiltrators by Gandalf from now on. Think of it, the Christians approach, but then Gandalf steps out and says, “I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.”

  • http://www.maryjones.us tlachtga

    Do not attempt a Druid infiltration on your own! … My many years of experience have taught me that Druids can be very dangerous if confronted.

    We also enjoy honey, and steal picnic baskets.

    • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

      Now I’m imagining Yogi Bear dressed in robes, carrying a staff like your stereotypical druid XD

    • http://www.facebook.com/kargach Rob Henderson

      Smarter than the average Pagan!

  • Charles Cosimano

    This is what comes of not sacrificing Christians.

    • Anonymous

      I’m ashamed, but I did LOL.

  • Kathy Wajerski

    This paranoia dates back to the 80s Satanic cult in every suburb scare that Pat Robertson and Mike Warnke hyped to the degree that evangelical/fundamentalist Christians still live in fear of. I left fundamentalism about 5 years ago and it was still very, very much preached in youth groups in particular, comparing Wiccan covens to Satanic cults. Harry Potter, in particular, was demonized from the pulpit. When you believe that Satan is out to steal you from God’s clutches, then fear drives every aspect of your being. People like Kirk and Ray go into these situations like they’re playing a role. It’s LARPing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rheana-Powers/100000387813389 Rheana Powers

    I’ve circled with this group on several occasions. They are the most gentle, peaceful, benign folk imaginable! Cameron is delusional with fundie programming to say he was “in danger” or “infiltrating” them! It’s an open public ritual! They make wreaths of flowers and are peaceful under the trees. He’s absolutely crazy, deluded, and completely disconnected from reality! So desperate to make up a story like this for some tiny bit of attention…it’s sad. What a loser! He needs a psych evaluation! Clearly, he’s gone mental.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rheana-Powers/100000387813389 Rheana Powers

    But then he believes in “dino-ducks,” too. Again, he’s gone mental.

    • http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

      Crocoduck! My new totem animal.

      • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

        I laughed so hard I snorted my orange juice out my nose.

      • Guest

        Crocduck is the new unicorn

    • No Bod E

      “gone mental”? I think he was mental all along. If the facts don’t support you, make up lies and spread fear.Oh, and shout down all who contradict you.

  • Anonymous

    “Druid coven.” Says it all. It’s as if Pagans wrote about Catholic synagogues.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/APOBD3VB5NT3TKJUMQPO7H3XOE Elizabeth

    OMG. I am sitting here just guffawing…. The part about them being assaulted with tree branches!!! Oh my…I’m losing it. The most unintentionally hilarious thing I’ve read in a while.

  • http://kallisti.writingkaye.com/ Kaye

    I think my favorite part of his Druidic ritual infiltration interview was “DON’T DRINK THE LIQUID! WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THE HELL’S IN THERE!”

    I think that’s proof that it must have been mead, not wine. While studying abroad, I went to Old English Reading Group and someone brought that once. It was like drinking cough syrup. Bet Mr. Cameron thought it was laced with LSD, though.

    • Anonymous

      Mead that resembles cough syrup would have to be very poor quality mead. Mead, properly made, is nothing like cough syrup.

      • kenneth

        Cough syrup is a cleaner buzz than mead! I know it’s sacrilege for a pagan not to love the stuff, but the one time I drank more than a mouthful, I was Unwell, and way out of proportion to the alcohol content I imbibed. There’s a reason the folk switched to grapes or grains for hooch once agriculture allowed such things!

        • Anonymous

          Sounds like you had a sweet mead. You might like one that’s on the dry side. If you have a good store around that carried imported drinks, look over what they have. Steer clear of Barenjagger and any with spices in them already, they tend to be on the sweet side (barenjager being a honey liqure).

          • Anonymous

            Bärenjäger is not mead any more than Brandy is wine. If people are mistaking it for mead, it is no wonder people think mead is some kind of powerfully inebriating super drink.

            I get the impression that a lot of people have only been exposed to really crappy mead. This is understandable, since most of what you can buy (in the US, anyway) is crap. If you know a good brewer, though, then you can discover that mead can be every bit as good as a fine wine.

          • Thriceraven

            Absolutely true. My husband brews mead that goes down like pleasantly fizzy soda pop. It’s delicious. Nothing commercial can match it, though I’ve had bad homebrewed mead as well.

            Just have to remember that it drinks like beer, but has the same alcohol content as wine…

  • http://sonneillon-v.livejournal.com/ Sonneillon

    I about died laughing. Good one, Jason!

  • Anna

    Hah, this is the most hilarious thing I’ve heard all week….it’s so dumb that it’s funny.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sean-TheDruid/100001234661081 Sean TheDruid

    I remember hearing about this when it first happened. It made me laugh then and still makes me chuckle.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Magething Jesse Marcyes

    So isn’t he just advocating hate crimes?
    “If you suspect Druidic activities in your neighborhood, contact your Church and have them send a team of trained Occult investigators to assess the situation and, if Druids are discovered, suggest a course of remediation — which can be as simple as cutting down the trees the Druids worship, or may involve more intense forms of Spiritual Warfare such as exorcism or prayer-circling a coven meeting.”

    • Christina

      Preeettty much exactly. If he thinks it’s okay to cut down another faith’s sacred grove, does that mean we can burn his church to the ground?

      The answer to any sane person is clearly “no,” because doing either is an act of hate.

  • Krystal H.

    Um, I’m pretty sure Objective Ministries is a parody site, like Landover Baptist. It’s a very convincing parody site, but still a parody: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Objective:_Ministries

    So, yeah, seems we’ve all been had. Cameron still said some pretty bigoted things about gay people though.

    • Adeline C.

      Objective Ministries may be a parody,, but Kirk Cameron is absolutely serious. He makes a living on the Fundamentalist lecture circuit. There was one of his ‘seminars’ was in my city last year, and I was sorely tempted to attend with my own recording device (turnabout being fairplay and all) but the tickets were $60 and Cameron got to be an a–hole for free.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kargach Rob Henderson

      Keep in mind that “Objective Ministries” merely reposted the audio file. The original site you’re looking for is http://www.wayofthemaster.com/ and that one doesn’t look like a parody to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1006464595 Cathryn Bauer

    I admit it, I find myself wishing that these had been Druids after Cameron’s fevered imagination and that they had in fact sacrificed him to something or other.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kenazfilan Kenaz Filan

    Jason asks “Why, in the name of all that is good and holy, is anyone still paying attention to Kirk Cameron?” Over 100 comments later, I think we have our answer. In the era of Keeping Up with the Kardashians and Jersey Shore, the ability to get people talking about you – even if their conversation involves nothing but mockery – trumps things like talent or intellect. And while he hasn’t won many (any) accolades here, he certainly has the readers of the Wild Hunt trembling with indignation. So he’s fulfilling his designated role as born-again reality star.

    • A.C. Fisher Aldag

      Actually, I had no idea who this Cameron guy was… ignored him in the news feed, since it was presumably just another minor celebrity yakking about hating Gays… until Jason posted about Cameron’s past as a TV star, on what I presume was a show aimed at children? One of the many joyful benefits of not having TV for years is missing this kinda garbage.

      So my advice is: Turn off the TV, go outdoors, or at least go on the internet and read cool stuff. But preferably, go outside!

      • http://twitter.com/lunamoth42 Luna

        It was a family sitcom in the 1980s. Mr. Cameron was the heart throb du jour, with his face plastered in all the teen magazines the way that Justin Beiber kid is now.

        I am ashamed to think I had pictures of him taped to my bedroom wall as a pre-teen.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kargach Rob Henderson

      I don’t see too many of us here trembling with indignation. Laughter, maybe.

  • Anonymous

    Cameron wasn’t even relevant in the 80′s, let alone now. This is why America is turning into a cesspool, folks. Because there are people who still listen to Kirk Cameron like anything he says carries any substance whatsoever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/vjbeall Jim Beall

    Although I am a Pagan minister, I do like to quote some parts of the Holy Bible.
    This verse seems to fit.

    Matthew 7:15
    King James Version (KJV)
    Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

  • http://entdinglichung.wordpress.com Entdinglichung

    Richard Hofstadter wrote in his famous 1964 essay The Paranoid Style in American Politics:

    “Anti-Catholicism has always been the pornography of the Puritan. Whereas the anti-Masons had envisaged drinking bouts and had entertained themselves with sado-masochistic fantasies about the actual enforcement of grisly Masonic oaths, the anti-Catholics invented an immense lore about libertine priests, the confessional as an opportunity for seduction, licentious convents and monasteries. Probably the most widely read contemporary book in the United States before Uncle Tom’s Cabin was a work supposedly written by one Maria Monk, entitled Awful Disclosures, which appeared in 1836. The author, who purported to have escaped from the Hotel Dieu nunnery in Montreal after five years there as novice and nun, reported her convent life in elaborate and circumstantial detail. She reported having been told by the Mother Superior that she must “obey the priests in all things”; to her “utter astonishment and horror,” she soon found what the nature of such obedience was. Infants born of convent liaisons were baptized and then killed, she said, so that they might ascend at once to heaven.”

    sounds somewhere familiar

  • http://sari0009.xanga.com/ Karen A. Scofield

    ADF rituals are open to the public but the actor felt he had to infiltrate one and then lie about it.

    Kirk Cameron feeds the three-headed monster of fear, anger and hatred and lusts after power in the abuse power paradigm. These are his gods. Why else would he act on the premise that purposeful ignorance, lying and prejudice make a great axis of morality?

  • Crystal Kendrick

    “Banana Comfort” you say? I’m sensing a new Urban Dictionary entry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elaine.annette Elaine Ann

    Kirk Cameron is a has been,he is a nobody and an idiot.I cannot believe that CNN would let such wacked out Right Wing Nut On Their Channel to spout his bigotry of druids and tell everyone that he infiltrated and recorded a Druid Ritual.They should not allow these fundamental christian’s on television if all they are going to do is talk hate speech.Pier’s Morgan Needs his head examined putting an a–h-le like that on CNN.Kirk Cameron is not the Know it all of religion,he is a religious bigot and does not need to be wasting airtime when there are other things going on.

    • Anonymous

      “I cannot believe that CNN would let such wacked out Right Wing Nut On Their Channel to spout his bigotry…”

      I can.

  • Crystal Kendrick

    That podcast is painful to listen to. The stupid- it hurts…

  • Kilmrnock

    This whole thing is truely laughable , had me chuckling . But my only worry here is this fool has followers. He told them to look for and attack Druids and thier worship sites . The whole spiritual warfare thing dosen’t bother me much . But his enciting violence against us does, these folks , his followers are not the brightest, sharpest knives in the drawer. Some of them believe doing such” work ” is thier duty to thier god . Can he be held responcible if they do what he told them to ?These type of actions are illegal , trespassing and property damamge ………..private and public in most cases.I too am a Druid , the stupidity of all of this crap is mindboggling , unfortunatly this is what we can expect from the media and the Kirk Cameron types

  • Kilmrnock

    Aye , All ADF rituals are open to the public , i am an ADF druid . The rituals are open by ADF rules and design . That fool didn’t have to infiltrate anything , all he had to do is show up. Gotta love the B.S.

    • http://sonneillon-v.livejournal.com/ Sonneillon

      While I am not a druid myself, I just want to say that my experiences with the ADF have been positive and enjoyable, and I am really thankful to all of you for doing what you do.

  • http://profiles.google.com/vanye111 Jason Hatter

    No, this was a standard mid 80′s sitcom.

  • Nate Sauve

    It’s funny that you care so much about Kirk.

    • http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

      We’re only concerned about the state of his immortal soul.

  • Four8blondie

    I’ve been reading about this for days and today on FB someone posted the “Christian” perspective and a rant on her page. The article and her rant essentially say that Christians are being persecuted and expected to accept “sin” in the name of tolerance. And of course, that they will be judged if they don’t take a stand. Oy vey!

  • Zan Fraser

    A few thoughts, before this subject fades too far into the Past: (1) obviously this has struck a major chord, and I am delighted to see that the Pagan response has been Jolly Merriment over Mr. Kirk Cameron. It strikes that all this began with an ADF Druid ritual, and as those who have read the Tain know, Druids and Celtic Bards could kill and slay with their Satire- no Celtic King would dare brave a Bard’s slashing Satire. Right? This is in the Tain, right?

    (2) Please take me seriously: Mr. Cameron’s brand of Christianity- the brand able to witness an ADF ritual and walk away with such a lurid tale- is the same that perpetrated the Burning Times. Medieval Christians were able- for 300 years (1400s-1600s)- to look terrified, accused victims, in the face, in torture chambers- and accept lurid, lurid tales.

    (3) Forgive me if I misunderstand, but it seems to me that Mr. Cameron is saying this took place in 2006? If so, does he not realize how he contradicts himself, when he implies violence and pathology to ADF rituals? If this is so, why has some sort of scandal not been applied against ADF’s good name before now (due to Mr. Cameron’s efforts)?

    (4) It seems to me rightly, that a number of ADF members or affiliates have indicated their rightful disgust at what is public slander. I assume ADF Pagans can reach all the way up to the ADF top: it seems to me that ADF is well within rights to request equal-opportunity follow-up to this piece with CNN.

    My thoughts.

  • Serpent

    People saying that Kirk is ‘brave’ for ‘standing up for his beliefs’ are terribly misguided IMO.

    One does not receive credit for bravery for standing up for beliefs that are malicious, evil, corrupt, immoral, unethical, or wrong on general humane principle – which I believe Kirk’s to be.

    Hitler stood up for his beliefs, Mao Tse Tung stood up for his beliefs, Osama bin Laden stood up for his beliefs, the Westboro Baptist Church stands up for their beliefs, etc. ad infinitum.

    A bigot who stands up for their beliefs isn’t brave, they’re still just a bigot, only now they’re just now a stubborn bigot.

  • Veracity

    I listened to part of this podcast (I simply could not get to the end of it, but listened to somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2) and did a thought experiment: I listened as if the Druids were Christians and Kirk and his buddy were non-Christians.

    It really turns the conversation on its ear. Kirk criticizes the Druids for their beliefs coming from 1) what they’ve read, 2) what they’ve heard from others, and 3) their own personal spiritual experience – with emphasis on their own experience.

    Is this not the same way Christians form their own beliefs? Contrary to what some Christians like Kirk would have you believe, no 2 people believe exactly the same thing, even within the same fellowship. Whatever group they associate with, their core religious beliefs come from a combination of what they’ve read (in the bible or in other religious material), what they’ve been taught by others, and what they have personally experienced between themselves and their God.

    Ask any Christian why they know their faith is correct, and you will get an answer somewhere in the realm of “I know in my heart.” Which is no different than anyone else’s belief – it’s all based on faith – faith being that which cannot be proven.

    Is it really any different? They would have you think so, but it’s truly not. Which makes their poking holes in the Druids beliefs and making fun of it even more hypocritical than they could ever realize. It just makes me want to smack him upside the head and say “You really think your beliefs are apples and everyone else’s are oranges. They are all apples.”

    With a glaring exception: if Kirk HAD done what this radio host ‘jokingly’ suggests, that is, to go forward when everyone else was presenting petitions or offerings and declare that Jesus Christ has made a difference in his life and blessed him, the Druid circle would have been more likely to accept this than most Christian churches would have done in the reverse situation. But if Kirk had continued with his speech about the “mama celtic god underneath us is not the one holding us up” (not an exact quote, but you get the gist) and declared that his belief was THE belief for everyone whether they knew it or not, or agreed with it or not, THAT would not have been acceptable.

    The Druid circle had stated that ALL beliefs were welcome. The exception is the belief that rules out all other beliefs for all other peoples.

    There are intolerant Pagans, just like their are intolerant Christians, though I believe the ratios are nowhere near the same. This circle was not intolerant. Kirk tried to force it into his previously chosen frame of reference for what a Pagan group should be, and did so sloppily and clumsily. His acting is not nearly as good as he thinks it is.