Guest Post: In Praise of the Apostate

Jason Pitzl-Waters —  November 3, 2011 — 62 Comments

[The following is a guest post from Eric Scott. Eric Scott is a second-generation Wiccan, raised in the St. Louis-based coven Pleiades. He writes about paganism for Patheos in his Family Traditions column, and also serves as a contributing editor at Killing the Buddha. His fiction and memoir have appeared in The Scribing IbisCaper Literary Journal, and Ashé! Journal. He used to sing in a Taoist glam rock band. Find him on Facebook and Twitter.]

Today marks 1,650 years since Julian the Apostate became Roman Emperor. The story still seems farfetched: when Julian was five, his family had been murdered on the orders of his relative, the emperor Constantius II. Yet that same Constantius would eventually name Julian his Caesar in 355 and his successor as Augustus in 361 – though admittedly, Julian had already been proclaimed Augustus by his army in 360 and he had been marching to Constantinople when Constantius died. He was the heir of the world’s first Christian dynasty, a man raised by bishops and monks to carry on the Arianism of his relatives. And he shocked the empire by revealing himself as a pagan, and then set about restoring the worship of the gods of Olympus to an empire that had abandoned them.

I first studied Julian while taking a course called “The History of Christian Thought.” It was the sort of course you had to be a hardcore theological nerd to enjoy; most of the material consisted of bishops arguing over minutia and excommunicating each other. Julian stood out, though, a figure cut from another sort of cloth: a philosopher, a general, a philanthropist, and a strangely humble ruler. He was a Renaissance man a thousand years before the Renaissance.

He was also, of course, a pagan, and moreover, the last pagan emperor, which makes him a romantic figure to pagans in the modern day. I remember reading his plans to restore paganism to Rome: he asserted that the reason Christianity had become so popular was because the Church spent so much time feeding the poor. Julian’s response was not to close down the churches or outlaw Christianity, but to make the pagan temples even more charitable than the churches. He refused the idea of persecution. “It is by reason that we ought to persuade and instruct men, not by blows or insults or physical violence,” he said in one of his letters.

But Julian was also a tragic figure. His reign lasted all of twenty months, from November 361 to June 363. Like too many others in the classical world, he died from a spear-wound in Persia, attempting to be Alexander the Great reborn. Conspiracy theorists claim that a rogue Christian in Julian’s ranks delivered the wound, but it’s impossible to know what happened for certain. 

When we reached that point in the course, I could see a little shiver of happiness run through some of my classmates, most of whom had identified themselves as evangelical Christians in some way or another. The professor, who also served as a pastor on the weekends, assured us in a gentle voice of the relief the bishops felt when Julian died: “that little cloud has quickly passed away,” as St. Athanasius said.

A quote that has stuck with me is the first paragraph of W.H.C. Frend’s chapter on Julian in his book The Rise of Christianity:

“The world has always warmed to its fallen heroes. Hector rather than Achilles, Robert E. Lee and not Ulysses S. Grant, stir the imagination of posterity, however lost or wrong headed the causes they championed. They fill the Valhalla of our fantasies. The emperor Julian is in a similar class… [He] bent every effort during a reign of twenty months in a hopeless effort to restore the old religion. His death in battle at the age of thirty-two in a grandiose scheme to conquer the Persian Empire and emulate Alexander the Great seems only to add stature to what objectively was a wasteful and futile endeavor.”

Nearly all scholars suggest that Julian’s attempt to revitalize paganism was doomed from the start, that the tide of history had swung in Christianity’s favor and it would have been impossible for him to swing it back. I have always thought that opinion put a lot of weight on a reign of less than two years. What if Julian had succeeded in his Persian campaign, or at least survived? What if he had lived to be an old man, an emperor with the three decades Constantine had? How differently would our histories read?

I suppose there isn’t any point in fantasizing about a world in which Julian had triumphed. He didn’t; further, even if he had, the paganism he espoused was very different from what modern pagans practice, even Hellenic reconstructionists. There is a danger of feeling too much affinity with a figure like Julian. But nonetheless, he embodied many of the virtues our communities admire. Of all Roman Emperors, he was perhaps the greatest champion of religious freedom. He was a great scholar and a notable writer. He was humble, and preferred simplicity over decadence.

And one more: he was a person who had been so educated in Christianity that he had even held a minor position in the church as a young man, who had seen first-hand the sort of power Christianity held in the empire – Constantius, the emperor who had murdered Julian’s family, was a zealous Arianist – and knew just how institutionalized it had become. And yet he turned away from it and embraced the gods of Olympus. Julian was the last pagan emperor, true, but more than that, he was the only emperor who had been born a Christian and died a pagan. Most pagans living today can empathize with his situation.

1,650 years away, Julian enters Constantinople as the sole emperor of the Roman Empire, about to try his best to change history. I am proud of him: proud of him as a pagan, and proud of him as a human being. And as we modern-day pagans continue our work of restoring the old gods, I like to think that Julian would feel proud of us, too.

Jason Pitzl-Waters

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  • Greenflame

    Well, blessed be to this Ancestor of Spirit. Thank you for this illuminating article.

  • Jenzyjordan

    Excellent piece!
    I am inspired to read more about this pagan Julian.

  • David Kees

    In all fairness, Julian wasn’t always a heroic figure. Speaking as a Pagan, here, he was a bit of a jerk. Plus, in his Tolerance Edict of 362, he specifically called back dissident Bishops from various brands of Christianity deemed heretical by the Church to Rome. The goal: to cause a schism with in the Church in an effort to weaken it. Most of his work with respect to religion was of a similar nature.

    While he was Pagan and supported Paganism as a state religion, the means by which he sought those ends were not always very egalitarian. The world wasn’t a very egalitarian place at the time, but he was fairly Machiavellian. Granted, this makes him all the more fascinating as a historical figure, but I felt it was worth pointing out.

    • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

      Let’s see if I have this right. Constantine and Constantius had used their power to silence certain Christian voices. But Julian is a “jerk” because he gave Christians more freedom than they had enjoyed under Christian emperors!

      • David Kees

        Yes, because his goals were to cause mayhem within the church. I can’t completely get behind someone who takes an action specifically meant to stress someone else or some other group out. It’s just not cool. I’m not saying that the Christian Emperors were any better (I refer you to this phrase: he world wasn’t a very egalitarian place at the time), just that Emperor Julian wasn’t inherently more heroic than they were simply due to his Pagan-ness.

        This is not to say that I don’t like the guy. Frankly, I’m a manipulative bastard sometimes myself and can be fairly Machiavellian to boot. But, I don’t hide this and work to avoid being nasty if I can do so. I suspect, if we could go back in time and chat with him, Julian would probably say something similar, but so would most politicians.

        • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

          FYI – I’ve switched to my Facebook profile because it includes my middle name. The other David Kees and this one are the same dude.

        • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

          Is it Julian’s fault that guaranteeing the right of Christians to hold differing opinions “causes mayhem”?

          Julian’s edict did exactly what it was intended to do: it granted all Romans greater religious freedom. Such freedom is the ultimate antidote to Christianity.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            But intent matters. His intent, at least as I was taught and have read about — and the caveat that you and Eric discuss regarding the potential bias among historians with respect to Julian might be coloring my understanding of him, was specifically to put as many people who disagree with each other in the same place at the same time and then to sit back and enjoy the in-fighting. In other words, his intent was not simply to provide religious freedom to heretical Christians but to actually invite those heretics to Rome so that the Church might implode.

            I may disagree with the actions of the Church, but I can’t agree with Julian’s just because he and I might share some deities on our altars.

          • http://heathenfaith.blogspot.com Norse Alchemist

            Oh no, the bad Pagan emperor let people speak, that stupid jerk wanted to cause a schism and break up in a totalitarian system that outlawed different thought, sent people far away (and to hell), and even killed them for heresy! That evil pagan scum!

            Yeah, sorry, but you sold that guy as more of a hero.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            Apparently, we’ve nested too far so this is in response to Norse Alchemist’s comment.

            I’m not saying he was a bad Pagan or a bad emperor. I like the guy. I think he was a scrappy fighter that didn’t pull punches and is and remains my favorite individual of the Greco-Roman world next to Alcibiades. That, however, doesn’t mean that I can’t disagree with is actions. I would much have preferred, for example, if his Tolerance Edict allowed more freedoms for heretical Christians but didn’t specifically indicate that they should return from their exile.

            The idea of adding freedom is the good part and I can’t disagree with it in anyway. It’s the latter bit that seems to be only motivated by a desire to destabilize the Church at the time and that makes me question his intent for the former.

          • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

            “But intent matters.”

            Julian was completely up front about his negative opinion of Christianity and his desire to revive traditional Paganism and turn back the advances of Christianity. Therefore it is nonsensical to make claims about knowing what his “real” intentions were, because Julian himself stated plainly and clearly and frequently exactly what his intentions were.

            Moreover, Julian’s negative assessment of Christianity and positive attitude toward Paganism are both shared by a number of important modern (and early modern) thinkers, including many of the most important figures from the Enlightenment.

            If one accepts Julian’s premise that the advance of Christianity at the expense of Paganism (and Christians themselves have always explicitly and proudly defined the progress of their religion in terms of the eradication of all other religions), then Julian’s intention is a noble one.

            Of course this noble intention could have been marred if Julian had adopted ignoble means to achieve it. But the promulgation of religious freedom in order to stop and reverse the process of eradicating Paganism was a praiseworthy method employed to achieve a praiseworthy goal.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            I’ll concede your point re: intent; what I’ve read has always been about Julian rather than his actual words so I’m working through both my bias and the bias of the authors of the histories that I’ve got on my shelf.

            “If one accepts Julian’s premise that the advance of Christianity at the expense of Paganism (and Christians themselves have always explicitly and proudly defined the progress of their religion in terms of the eradication of all other religions), then Julian’s intention is a noble one.”

            I’ll concede this as well, though I think this touches on something I’ve been having trouble with during this conversation: the premise that what advances one group must come at the expense of another. I’m not sure I by the fact that human interaction (religious or otherwise) must be a zero-sum game and perhaps that’s what constantly gives me pause with respect to Julian as he, I think, certainly did.

          • Anonymous

            David Dashifen Kees said “I’ll concede this as well, though I think this touches on something I’ve been having trouble with during this conversation: the premise that what advances one group must come at the expense of another. I’m not sure I by the fact that human interaction (religious or otherwise) must be a zero-sum game and perhaps that’s what constantly gives me pause with respect to Julian as he, I think, certainly did. ”

            I don’t think anyone here (or for that matter even Julian) thinks that human interaction in general or religious interaction need be a zero sum game. The problem is that the Christians deliberately sought and continue to seek to make religious interaction a zero sum game, and thus to eliminate all other religions. This is what has made Christianity so perplexing to non-Christians through the centuries. This kind of view is actually quite rare among the world’s religions, but those that happen to hold it, like Christianity and Islam, are able to use it to great force to mobilize their followers on bloody crusades and jihads. When dealing with an ideology that seeks to wipe out everything that it cannot control and that directly threatens what one holds dear, one must take serious action. A live and let live attitude does you no good when dealing with people who think allowing you to continue to live as you will is evil and who are willing to do something about it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            But we, by playing the zero-sum game with them, validate it. This feels, to me, like a situation in which the only way to win is not to play that game. I don’t know the rules of any other game that we could be playing, but conversations like this help me think about what such a think might appear to be.

          • http://sarenth.wordpress.com/ Sarenth

            “But we, by playing the zero-sum game with them, validate it. This feels, to me, like a situation in which the only way to win is not to play that game. I don’t know the rules of any other game that we could be playing, but conversations like this help me think about what such a think might appear to be.”

            While I think I get where you’re coming from, if the other side is playing a zero-sum game, then by hook or by crook, so are you. You can choose ‘not to play’, but all you’re doing is ‘wasting your turns’ when you could be doing something productive with them. I don’t have to like the game, hell, I don’t have to agree with it. However, if the other side views this as a zero-sum game, and they play by those rules, whether I agree or follow it, I am still involved in their game.

        • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

          I can get 100% behind someone who takes action to stress someone or some group out. Especially if that group sought to eradicate the open worship of the gods, or something else bad. I see nothing unreasonable about this.

    • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

      “To cause a schism within the Church in an effort to weaken it.” You say that like it’s a bad thing. I wouldn’t shed a single tear over the poor,poor Galilaeans inconvenienced by such a plan.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

        Perhaps my choice of words was imprecise. My interpretation of his actions with respect to the Tolerance Edict were specifically intended to cause a schism within the Church in an effort to dismantle it. That’s what I can’t get behind.

        Weakening the early Church to create a situation wherein other faiths, be they Hellenic Paganism; Judaism; Zoroastrianism; heretical Christians; etc., would all be able to operate on their own in a live-and-let-live sort of way is one thing.

        Specifically targeting a faith group in an attempt to cause them strife is another.

        • Anonymous

          Given that this “faith group” had as its stated goal the elimination of all other faith groups, I don’t think there is anything wrong with what the Emperor Julian did.

          • Gruss

            If more people had followed Julian’s lead, our Western World wouldn’t be in the shape it’s in now, a world where 17 centuries of religious oppression was the rule and not the exception, and where countless people still suffer the long term impact of it.

          • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

            And a world where people assume that monotheism and oppression are the default form of religion, rather than an aberrant perversion of it. One that leads to an article titled “Why doesn’t Asia have religion?”, based on an obviously monotheistically-colored definition of religion.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thomas-david-dubois/does-asia-have-religion_b_1031869.html

          • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

            Folcwald, because your reply about zero-sum games and religious interaction is nested too far down for me to reply, allow me to say, in response: YES! YES! YES! EXACTLY! THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT. :)

        • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

          Dismantling the Church would have been a Good Thing. The Christians would clearly not have operated on their own in a live-and-let-live way, or else they’d have done this from the start, and we’d be living in a very different world.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            “Dismantling the Church would have been a Good Thing.

            Nope. I can’t agree with that statement. I’ve done my best to avoid specifically calling people out on things as much as possible but I cannot get behind the fact that the Church was a bad influence on the world. Were the negative aspects? Yes. But I challenge you to find any specific group of people, religious or otherwise, who didn’t act questionably in at least one situation. Could we even posit that the actions of the church might have been, on the whole, more negative than positive? Perhaps, but that’s a very thin line to walk and not one that I’m equipped (i.e., knowledgeable enough) to balance upon.

            Your argument, to me, seems to be that the negative acts toward Christianity by Julian were justified because, previously, Christians had been negative toward Pagans. That outlines his actions in a revenge scenario at worst or as a two-wrongs-making-a-right (for lack of a better term) at best. In both cases, I can’t support it.

            Now, if Baruch Dreamstalker’s interpretation (below) was Julian’s intent (which by Apuleius information above, doesn’t seem to be the case) and the results simply turned out to be different, then that would be a situation of another color. But, as far as I can tell, that wasn’t the case. It’s a good interpretation and, since I really want to be on Julian’s side and on the side of someone who claimed to be supporting religious freedom, it would be personally more comfortable to subscribe to it, but Julian’s actions seem much more like revenge or comeuppance.

          • Gruss

            There isn’t enough time left in the world, nor data-space on the internet to type out the reasons why Christianity was a negative impact on this world. It had no good long term impact on this world. It didn’t just “act questionably” once or twice; it began an organized and international campaign of terror and cultural genocide the likes of which had _never_ been seen before. Your impassioned defense of Christianity here, however, speaks volumes about you; attacking Julian the Blessed isn’t going to get you pals in a place like this, and trying to equalize our pagan ancestors to Christianity by saying they “All acted questionably at times” is going to win you even fewer.

          • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

            Given that that church would, over the last two thousand years, embark on endless genocides against indigenous peoples, cultures and religions on nearly every continent on earth, I have absolutely no problem with that statement. To suggest otherwise would be to propose that we should all just stand by rather then opposing any organization that aims to propogate itself via imperialism and extirpation of all competing ideologies.

          • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

            There is no need to “interpret”. Julian’s intentions were out in the open for everyone to see.

            Julian wanted to defeat the ideology of Christianity the old fashioned (Pagan) way. He wanted a free and open exchange of ideas, and he wanted everyone to be free to profess and practice whatever religion they pleased.

            Julian knew that such freedom would be a serious blow to Christianity, because Christianity and freedom are incompatible.

            In fact, however, for anyone who genuinely believes that Christianity and freedom are compatible, then Julian should be applauded even more. Julian gave individual Christian far greater freedom than they would ever know again until the modern era.

          • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

            If something or someone tries to injure me, I would have no problem with injuring or even killing in order to defend myself. Julian, whether or not he wanted revenge (and I wouldn’t blame him!) also sought to defend the Empire and the worship of the gods.
            And were there negative aspects? The Church has absolutely been, on the whole, negative. This “one situation” happens to have been a very big situation, responsible for the destruction and interruption of many religions and loss of human life.
            Consider the fact that the temples are now long-neglected ruins, the fact that we are in a religious community called “Pagan”,a term that, at least certain segments of us have taken from the Christians, that we’ve only been recently really recovering the traditions of old, or growing new ones drawing from the old. There is so much that has been lost and destroyed.
            (I am not at all against the use of the term Pagan, just pointing out the fact we use it is a legacy of that experience with Christianity)

            When annihilation is the alternative, I’m not going to care very much about the guys doing the annihilating getting hurt. I don’t think I’d care at all. It’d be nice to be nice and kind to everyone, but unfortunately, not everyone is willing to reciprocate. I don’t understand why one should be merciful to those hell-bent on one’s annihilation or conversion.

          • David Kees

            I disagree with the premise that Christianity is negative. Individuals within it may be. Perhaps even the majority of individuals with in it may be. And I think the mix of political and spiritual authority has been shown to have a negative effect on both politics and spirituality, but to claim that Christianity as a whole is negative is to ignore those Christians who are not.

            An argument could even be made that the majority of Christian leaders have had a negative impact on the world at large, but I can’t say that, therefore, Christianity is negative. I’ve met too many wonderful Christians to do so any more than I’d say Judaism is negative because of the actions of the Maccabees following their successful reclaiming of Judea in conquering their neighbors (including Hellenes) makes Judaism negative.

            “… equalize our pagan ancestors to Christianity by saying they ‘All acted questionably at times” is going to win you even fewer.’

            Since we’ve gone past the nesting limit (again) I can’t actually reply specifically to Gruss but I don’t feel that my words were an attempt to equalize simply an indication that I find it patently unfair to demonize one group for negative actions while acting as if the guy on your team is “blessed” when he, too, is acting in a way that is unfriendly at best or hostile at worst to that group.

            “Your impassioned defense of Christianity here, however, speaks volumes about you”

            That I don’t prejudge a person based on their religion or on their religion’s history? Why thank you, I appreciate that.

            Personal attacks aside (and I apologize for mine), thank you all very much for this conversation. I’ve had this one with other Pagans (and never felt very good about it then and I don’t feel very good about it this time, either) and I’ve never been led to the point at which I could identify the zero-sum game that Julian was operating with respect to the Church at the time. I’m going to have to think about that some more.

            But now, I’m off to play nerdy table top role playing games so it’s unlikely that I’ll be back to the page again.

            See you next article :)

          • Anonymous

            David Kees: “I disagree with the premise that Christianity is negative. Individuals within it may be. Perhaps even the majority of individuals with in it may be.”

            Then you are sadly and horribly mistaken. The problem with Christianity is not a few bad apples spoiling the barrel, it is that it is an inhuman death cult that happens to be followed by a variety of people some of whom, despite their religion, happen to be good.

            Christianity consists, at its core, of a number of metaphysical and ethical doctrines, all of which are unhealthy.

            For instance, their doctrinal belief about human nature is that all humans are born sinners (this is the meaning of original sin), that we are wretched, twisted, despicable creatures who deserve punishment merely for being who we are, and that it is only through the bizarre sacrifice of their god man that any of us will be able to escape the eternal punishment we all, by our very natures, so richly deserve, even those who happen to be saved. This is not a normal belief. This is not how other religions believe. This is not what pagans believe or believed, and thank the gods for that.

            It is precisely this belief, and not some aberration of certain particularly degenerate souls who happen to be nominal Christians, that can justify the Christian in all sorts of crimes the likes of which have never been committed in the name of religion before Christianity, and are only committed by other religions that have been influenced by Christianity. Fundamentally, things like the inquisition, the witch trials, the burning of heretics, the destruction of the great treasures of the knowledge of antiquity, the willful ignorance of large portions of our population, the abuse of children (to beat the evil out of them), and so on, are all justified by the Christians’ belief that man is damned, that there is only one way to escape this damned state, and that anything that might lead one astray from the one true path will lead one straight into the eternal fires of hell.

            This kind of belief is not positive. It is not healthy. It does and did not represent anything like progress in comparison to pagan beliefs where the earth is good and man is even a thing not necessarily always holy but certainly capable of being made holy. Christian pessimism about man and the world is a kind of filth. Like a mold or a fungus it grows in the unhealthy parts of a civilization and spreads from there, ultimately making the rest of that civilization as wretched and unhealthy as it itself is.

            The worst thing that can be said about the Emperor Julian is that he failed. A world where Christianity had been relegated to the status of a bizarre fringe cult only adhered to by a few of the most desperate and degenerate examples of humanity as it should be would be a beautiful world indeed.

          • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

            Couldn’t resist:

            “Julian wanted to defeat the ideology of Christianity the old fashioned (Pagan) way. He wanted a free and open exchange of ideas, and he wanted everyone to be free to profess and practice whatever religion they pleased.

            Julian knew that such freedom would be a serious blow to Christianity, because Christianity and freedom are incompatible.”

            I agree, Apuleius, with everything you said above. The only specific thing that I disagree with when you look at Julian’s Tolerance Edict is the fact that he targeted the exiled, heretical Bishops and invited them to return to Rome. If he had stopped at the idea of religious freedom, I’d have zero problem with the edict, but he didn’t. He went on to specifically act in a way to create strife within the Church.

            If he had provided freedom and strife was the result without his interference (as it may have been) then it wouldn’t be the direct result of his edict but rather of the in-fighting and disagreements of the Church. But, because it was a part of his edict, as I understand it, to call those exiled Bishops to Rome, he acted in a way that could serve one and, as far as I’ve ever read, only one purpose: to try to cause the end of the church from within.

            That was the line I feel he crossed. Not in opposing the actions of the Church toward the Pagans of the day or future indigenous cultures that it would encounter later, I oppose them too. Further, if and when I have the opportunity to specifically oppose actions in this day, I do so in a way that seems best to me. But, I also feel it necessary to examine our family as much as we examine our neighbors.

            We have to know where our lines are. For some, Julian didn’t cross one, or he moved the line, or he leaped over it to the applause of the modern Pagan. All of these are valid responses to this historical figure. His divisiveness is part of what makes him one of my favorites, in fact.

            Anyway, I’m now late for nerdery so I have to run. I may stop in following my game to see what other fracas I’ve stirred up.

            I guess this is my Erisian moment of the day, hail to Her :)

    • Baruch Dreamstalker

      Just thinking in terms of the care and feeding of empires in general: Julian’s motive may have been to reduce internal tension by giving the dissidents free expression and thus depriving them of the martyr’s card; and bring the dissident bishops to Rome so they did not provoke political secessionism in the provinces.

      Just my $0.02…

      • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

        Have you seen this stated anywhere? It’s a reasonable (and personally far more comfortable) conclusion , but I’ve not encountered it in my reading re: Julian. Granted, the bias discussed below could be part of that problem.

        • Baruch Dreamstalker

          I have no source for my remark. It bubbled up in my head as I followed this discussion.

    • Charles Cosimano

      All of which sound like admirable things in an Emperor.

  • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Is there some ineluctable law of physics that prevents some Pagans from speaking about the Emperor Julian without mindlessly repeating Christian lies and slanders?

    1. Julian never said that the reason “Christianity had become so popular was because the Church spent so much time feeding the poor”. First of all, the Pagan Roman state had been feeding the poor for many centuries before Jebus ever came along. In the second place, the idea that early Christianity was more “charitable” than Paganism, and that Julian tried to close this supposed “charity gap” in order to better compete with the Christians is nothing more than a transparent bit of Christian propaganda based on a blatantly inaccurate misreading of a single, fragmentary letter by Julian. Third of all, the actual “popularity” of Christianity is a matter of significant disagreement among historians. Even the most cravenly pro-Christian historians don’t try to claim that more than half the Roman population voluntarily converted prior to the reign of Constantine, thus conceding that state sponsorship played a major role in Christianity’s “triumph”. Many other historians, however, figure Christianity’s demographic strength prior to Constantine at closer to 10% (about equal to that of Judaism at the time), while others have Christianity down around where Rick Santorum is currently polling among Republicans.

    2. “Nearly all scholars suggest that Julian’s attempt to revitalize paganism was doomed from the start.” Rubbish. The inevitability of Christianity’s “triumph” (and the concomitant futility of Julian’s revival of Paganism) is another standard (and obviously self-serving) Christian trope. Indeed, the Pagan resistance of the 4th and 5th centuries had significant and lasting effects. For example, much of modern Paganism is descended from the Paganism of this time, and is infused with the spirit of die-hard resistance of Julian, Arbogast, etc. Nowhere was the effect of late antique Pagan resistance more profound than on the Isle of Britain, where the process of Christianization was actually stopped and pushed back. In fact, this was just the first of three historical reversals of Christianization that took place in Britain. Suggested reading on this point:
    Paganism in the Roman Empire by Ramsay MacMullen
    Religion in Late Roman Britain by Dorothy Watts

    • http://twitter.com/lofrothepirate Eric Scott

      I don’t disagree with you (I was being a little overzealous in saying “nearly all scholars,” thought it does seem to be a majority.) And of course those are self-sevingly Christian positions; that was sort of my point. Julian has gotten a bad rap for 1600 years because Christianity has managed to write the history, as evidenced by my anecdotes about my experiences in the History of Christian Thought class.

      Or, to put it another way: my intention was for the post to mostly be about the ways Julian is communicated to us in the present, which involves a heavy Christian filter.

      Thank you for your points about Julian and Christian charity; I’ll have to look into that. (The story I told in the post is the version I read in several books on him, but admittedly, they were mostly books by sympathetic Christians who wanted to find a way to convince themselves that, despite all that polytheism talk, Julian was “really” always a Christian.

      • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

        Eric Scott: “(I was being a little overzealous in saying “nearly all scholars,” thought it does seem to be a majority.)”

        I honestly think you are wrong about that. Certainly some scholars wish to give the impression that Christianity’s triumph was inevitable, but most are careful not to say this explicitly because that would be tantamount to endorsing a central tenet of Christian apologetics. On the other hand, many scholars do explicitly reject the claim that Christianity’s ascent and Paganism’s decline were unstoppable. Among them are Ramsay MacMullen, James B. Rives, Dorothy Watts and Charles W. Hedrick, Jr.

        The idea that any historical event is inevitable, ineluctable, or otherwise “ordained” is officially anathema to most modern historians. However, the traditional Christian apologetic view is that all of human history follows “God’s Plan”, and this kind of thinking continues to be ubiquitous among many modern scholars, although most take pains to cover themselves from being accused of any such thing.

        Eric Scott: “Thank you for your points about Julian and Christian charity; I’ll have to look into that.”

        I have written about this elsewhere and provided a number of scholarly sources:

        “And a boat to the boatless” (Paganism, Christianity, and Charity)

    • Gruss

      Apuleius, thank the Gods for you. Were it not for you, most “pagans” these days would eventually talk themselves (and others) into becoming Christian again, as most “pagans” these days don’t seem to be able to free themselves from Christian misinformation- a final and insidious outcome of countless centuries of worldwide psychic abuse.

      • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

        I am reminded of the Pagan who expressed annoyance at the discussion of the gods and 9/11, and theodicy, expressing astonishment that people have transported themselves “to the dark ages” and would go back to reading Hitchens’ “God is Not Great.”

  • Thelettuceman

    Hail to Julian the Martyr.

  • http://heathenfaith.blogspot.com Norse Alchemist

    Hail to Julian, may he feast in the halls of the gods and his name known in all the nine worlds!

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    Hail Emperor Julian, called Apostate by the Galilaeans, called Philosopher and Pious by the Hellenes! Hail Emperor Julian, 1,650 years after you ascended the throne as Emperor of the Roman Empire and began your reign, cut tragically short, whether by Persian spear or traitorous Galilaean dagger. Hail, Hero to those who even today cut loose from the bonds of the Galilaean, and look again to the good and ancient gods of all lands, with reverence. Hail!

  • Anonymous

    Gore Vidal wrote an excellent historical novel about Julian. A friend recommended it to me a few years back and I quite enjoyed the read:
    http://www.amazon.com/Julian-Novel-Gore-Vidal/dp/037572706X

    • Crystal Kendrick

      Ooh! Gonna have to check this one out.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dashifen David Dashifen Kees

      Agreed! This looks like great fun. Thank you :)

    • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

      Argh. I read part of it after borrowing it from the college library, but then the semester ended. D:

    • Nick Ritter

      That’s one of my favorite novels.

  • Marcílio Diniz da silva

    Aue Juliane; Magnus, Diuus Venerabilisque!

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    Because the discussion thread with David Kees went over the nesting limit, I’ll respond to something he said in a separate reply, even if he is, as he says, unlikely to revisit this article:

    “But we, by playing the zero-sum game with them, validate it. This feels, to me, like a situation in which the only way to win is not to play that game. I don’t know the rules of any other game that we could be playing, but conversations like this help me think about what such a think might appear to be.”

    As noble and good-intentioned it is to stop playing the game, there is only one way to stop playing the game*: To leave and go somewhere else where the enemy cannot reach you. Other than that, all of your options are “within the game”, and include:
    1)Destroying them.
    2)Weakening them.
    3)Letting them win.
    Julian took Option 2, since Option 1 wouldn’t have worked, and Option 3 is unacceptable to any sapient being with a sense of self-preservation.

    *Nowadays, not playing the game is more feasible, since many Christians nowadays seem to be more civilized than their predecessors.

  • Jason Mankey

    I like Julian, and find his story fascinating, however many of us would have had trouble finding common ground with him. He was a bit of a prude, and while he certainly loved discussion, debate, logic, and argument, that doesn’t mean we would have all been fast friends, or that we’d even recognize his “paganism(s)” when compared against our own. His moral code made a lot of Christian monks look like partiers, he was rather conservative in a lot of ways.

    As for Julian being a dick . . . he did try to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, not as a favor to the Jews, but to prove Christian prophecy wrong. I’m not going to make a judgement on it, but it’s pretty funny.

    • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

      I find it hilarious and applaud his dickery 1000%!

    • Hotstreak12

      That’s one hell of a middle finger

    • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

      Julian is often portrayed as some kind of effete, prudish, otherworldly, bookish recluse. He was, as a matter of fact, very fond of philosophy and classical literature. But he was also an accomplished battlefield commander who became Emperor when he was lifted up by the soldiers who fought under him, who then carried him on their shoulders as they proclaimed him Augustus.

      Like Socrates, to the extent that Julian tended toward asceticism this was the asceticism of the warrior on the battlefield, not that of the professor in an ivory tower, much less that of the monk flogging himself in his cell.

      • Jason Mankey

        One biography I read of Julian speculated that he might have had sex three times in his entire life, and then he did that strictly out of “duty.” I’m not an expert on Julian, but I have read about him enough to have an opinion. The only thing I’m trying to get across is that his “paganism” was vastly different from our own today.

        I’m well aware of Julian’s success on the battlefield, and his troops certainly seemed fond of him, but he certainly wasn’t conventional, even in his own day.

        • http://egregores.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

          You are correct in stating that you are not an expert on Julian. You are even less an expert on his Paganism.

      • Genexs

        Agreed. One only has to look at images of Julian on coins, so see him in his warrior garb. It’s true that Julian has book-wormish roots, and he may have affected a Claudius-like persona to escape an early death. But when the time came, he became a soldier and was tested in the field. I have a feeling it would be no-contest if any of us here happen to cross him on the battlefield. In addition, he showed remarkable restraint to some of his very nasty Xtain enemies. After some of them made a point of ridiculing Julian, it’s a wonder there heads did not wind up on spikes. Just look at how Emperors such as Caligula, Caracalla, or Tiberius reacted when some one contradicted them!!!

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    “[...W]e are in a religious community called “Pagan”,a term that, at least certain segments of us have taken from the Christians”

    Djhutmosu, some of us deliberately employ the words “witch” and “pagan” in full knowledge of their popular connotations, to make it clear we are not another minor flavor of monotheism; in solidarity with those who died or saw their culture destroyed because they were deemed witches and pagans; and to rehabilitate those terms in the current era.

    (Djhutmosu’s comment was too deep in the weeds for a direct reply.)

    • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

      I have nothing against the word, and I use it for myself, in fact. I’ve written about why I use it (though I also use “polytheist”, and coexist with the two), and I use it for the same reasons, as well, to show we’re not just funny-looking monotheists, out of solidarity with those who died and saw their culture destroyed, and to rehabilitate the term. What I meant to point out, was the fact that we need to rehabilitate the term “Pagan” at all. I think that’s a better way to put it, and I’m sorry for my lack of clarity.

      The word “Witch” also doesn’t bother me, not least of all because my girlfriend is a Witch. :)

  • Genexs

    Very well done! Fans of Julian every were are impressed.

  • Kilmrnock

    i responce to Mr Kees , the Christian Church hasn’t had a negative effect on the world ………….are you kidding me? If the Xtian chuch hadn’t been atached to the roman empire , i amoungst others believe our current world would be a much better place.Not that pagans are , where perfect , but i believe our/ thier world view was alot better . Atleast where it came to dealing w/ other people , pagans wern’t bent on converting all they came in touch with.Has anyone ever heard of pagan missionaries ………..attempting to spread the word of the gods far and near? The evangelising and one way or the hiway mentality of our xtian freinds i believe will be the downfall of the western world. not to even mention where in the gods name did they come up with manifest destiny .i for one wished Julian had been more successful in returning paganism to the empire and nipping the xtian problem in the bud b/f it became to powerful. Kilm

  • Malta

    Praise! Oh Augustus! Oh Caesar! Oh Savior! Oh Well Read! Oh Victor! Julian!