The Third Wave’s Predictable Wallowing in Japan’s Tragedy

Jason Pitzl-Waters —  March 18, 2011 — 106 Comments

For some time now I’ve been writing and warning about the Christian Neo-Pentecostal movement known as the “Third Wave” or “New Apostolic Reformation”. Guided by World Prayer Center co-founder and “Convening Apostle” C. Peter Wagner, this small group of Christians helped nurture the career of Sarah Palin, and have been slowly climbing into positions of influence among the ranks of ultra-conservative politicians. So who cares if yet another iteration of the Religious Right supplants an older version? The problem with this version is that they have an almost singular obsession with spiritual warfare and destroying any faith they see as non-Christian. This includes bragging about giving a Wiccan cancer through group prayer and fighting all agents of the global-level demon they call the “Queen of Heaven”.

“Atop the hierarchy of demon spirits are the ‘territorial demons’, and squatting near the apex, over Mount Everest, is a purported global-level demon spirit called ‘The Queen of Heaven’ that prevents, according to Peter Wagner, prayers of Catholics, Muslims, and adherents to other supposedly illegitimate forms of religious belief, from reaching God.”

As you might imagine, a group so focused on cheering the destruction of non-Christian faiths may not be able to resist crowing about the current crisis and tragedy in Japan, a country where Christianity is a tiny minority. First, Ed Brayton of Dispatches From the Culture Wars points to NAR leader Chuck Pierce, who claims his “strategic prayer gathering” has sparked a course of prophetic actions that caused (through God) the earthquakes in Japan.

We declared, “Awake, O north wind! Awaken the north wind, and cause this garden that has been enclosed by the enemy to open up so that these seeds of harvest will come forth.”

We also shared that it will be heard on the news that the nation of Japan is surrounded by wind. This will be a sign that harvest will sweep that nation. At that time I also encouraged the leadership to establish schools of the prophets both on Hokkaido Island (the far north) and Okinawa (the far south) to keep the wind of God blowing and to neutralize the demonic forces that are influencing and holding Japan in captivity.

If you think what this group is doing sounds like malefic magic, I’d be hard-pressed to argue with you. At the end of his missive, one of Pierce’s followers shares the hope that Japan will become the “Land of the Risen Son”. They are ready and waiting to exploit this tragedy for all it’s worth.

Meanwhile, Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion zeros in on NAR prophet(ess) Cindy Jacobs, who previously gained our attention when she gloried in the destruction of Haiti, and is now blaming Shinto for the destruction and horror the citizens of Japan are now facing.

“However, of recent years, this link with Amaterasu and sun worship was reinstated in a ceremony in which the new Emperor once again participated and “spent the night with the goddess” after eating the sacred rice. I believe this is one major reason that Japan has gone downhill economically in such a drastic way. […] this island, Hokkaido, looks like the head of a dragon with the body being the rest of Japan. The people of Asia have worshipped the dragon for 5,000 years. If one looks at the place where the earthquake took place, it looks like the soft underbelly of most vulnerable part of the dragon. Let’s pray that the deep idolatry and the worship of hundreds of idols under the guise of Shintoism, Buddhism, and allegiances to being “sons of the dragon” will be broken and thousands will turn to the Lord.”

Jacobs tries to couch her bizarre anti-Shinto and ultimately anti-Japan rant in concern for the Japanese people, but it’s clear what the priorities are here, the “breaking” of non-Christian religion and the successful “turning” of people to Christianity. When Jacobs isn’t busy finding the bright side in mass tragedy and death, she shares a stage with Virginia’s Republican attorney general, burns indigenous art, and casts out homosexual spirits. Oh, and did you know that the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was what killed on those birds recently?

Again, this would all be sad and laughable, a delusion rightly mocked and shunned by the civilized world, were it not for the political clout and influence this movement, and its allies, are currently trying to grasp. Many of us would like to believe that those who disagree with us on various issue are, at heart, decent people with different philosophies about the world. In most cases this is true, but any group that would welcome mass death and destruction as a method to changing minds is spiritually, emotionally, and mentally bankrupt. That this “Third Wave” and other anti-Pagan ideologues like David Barton are given unprecedented access to lawmakers and people of influence is frightening. Any politician who associates with them, who doesn’t condemn and distance themselves from them, are to be held as suspect by anyone who values pluralism and secular democracy.

While I’m on the subject of Japan, and its struggles, I would like to remind everyone that the Pagan Community is holding a fundraiser for the work Doctors Without Borders is doing there. There is a goal of $30,000 and we’ve almost hit $20,000! Let’s send a message of hope and solidarity to counteract the hatred and fear. Let’s send a message that the true spirit of Japan will never die, and will certainly not bend to these vultures who pretend to preach the word of Christ.

Jason Pitzl-Waters


  • A.C. Fisher Aldag

    Said Jason "If you think what this group is doing sounds like malefic magic, I’d be hard-pressed to argue with you. " Well, that thing called the Threefold Law isn't a law like "Please don't jaywalk", it's a law like gravity.

    • I agree, and I think if these people had been busier reading, learning, and living their faith they too would not only agree but also remember verses such as this one:

      "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do you gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

      Matthew 7:15-23

      • Anna Helvie

        Unfortunately, when you are as deluded as they are, any "Three-Fold" type repercussions will be laid squarely at the feet of Satan attacking them.

        • Pagan Puff Pieces

          If you're on the "wrong" side of things, if you do well or badly, it's because of how wrong and evil you are, and if the people on the "right" side of things do well or badly, it's only further proof of how good they are.

          • Too true, evil is in the eye of the beholder. Each man thinks himself the hero and his foe the villain

      • I've seen comments on a couple of other boards blaming "satin" for the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear problem. Funny, I always though silk was more popular in Japan…

    • Caroline Mannheimer

      No, simple karma will get them. The "Threefold Law" was invented to ease the worry of "regular" folk about the practices of witches. Karma is a law like gravity, leave the threefold nonsense out of it.

      • I agree, as an Asatruar, I don't hold to the "threefold law." I do hold to the idea of you start a fight, you're gonna get one though.

        • chuck_cosimano

          Of course if you start the fight and win… After all, Yahweh is one of the great war gods.

  • "The people of Asia have worshipped the dragon for 5,000 years"

    These people don't even bother to hide their racism. Asia is a huge continent with a variety of completely different peoples with different histories and cultures. These people obviously look at east Asia and see a bunch of people with similar eye shapes and just assume that they all share the same linguistic/ cultural heritage.

    • To be fair though, dragons are almost universally revered in all Asian countries, and there's a lot of cultural similarities through out the the region. China was a big and powerful nation for centuries upon centuries, and they exported a lot of that culture to the other nations around them who either wanted China's favor, or by shier need to work with the larger power. Are they all the same? No, of course not, but they have a lot of shared culture from way, way back, and they are connected to each other.

      • All of that may be true in reference to only east Asia, but the quote I was commenting on just says Asia, a continent containing not just the far east where China was historically the dominant culture, but also the Middle East, India, the often overlooked vast stretches of central Asia, not to mention the various shamanic cultures of Northern Asia/ Siberia. I think that the uncritical use of 'Asia' as it appears in the quote is problematic and tends to conflate arguably the most diverse and historically rich continent on earth to an 'oriental' stereotype.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      Sounds like "Asia" means "China", where the Dragon has a long and benevolent history in folk mythology. Historically, China IS the 800-lb Gorilla of Eastern Asia whose culture has influenced those of its neighbors — Korea, Japan, Vietnam.

  • However, of recent years, this link with Amaterasu and sun worship was reinstated in a ceremony in which the new Emperor once again participated and “spent the night with the goddess” after eating the sacred rice. I believe this is one major reason that Japan has gone downhill economically in such a drastic way.

    Someone tell these people that there's a worldwide economic downturn and that it's hit another country pretty hard that doesn't have an emperor who sleeps with Amaterasu. coughUScough.

  • Call it Third Wave or whatever you like, but it would appear that Satanism is alive and well in the United States.

    • sarenth

      I would not besmirch the names of Satanists with a brush like theirs.

      • Nah, I don't mean Anton LaVey's Church of Satan – they're something quite a bit different and as much as I understand it they just use the name of Satan to create controversy. Out of curiosity I read a copy of the Satanic Bible a few years ago and found out they're really more hedonists than anything. In fact, if I understood it correctly they don't believe in deities at all – they only believe in themselves (which I think is actually rather healthy.)

        • sarenth

          From what I have read of the Satanic Bible and some of LaVey's other writings this is true, but knowing good, healthy Theistic Satanists myself, I still find the brush they're painted with distasteful.

          • Unfortunately, I don't think there's any getting around that. I sympathize with Wiccans who dislike when they're slandered for being witches, but that's a tough obstacle to overcome when those criticizing are reading from scripture which specifically maligns the words "witch" and "witchcraft." Likewise, I sympathize with Satanists since for the most part they're hugely misunderstood, but you have to admit that it's hard to convince people of who you really are when they're reading "the word of god" in their holy book that specifically names Satan as the greatest enemy.

            Perhaps the way around it is to start a discussion of the Gnostic interpretation of Satan as a deity existing from before the creation of the world who brings knowledge and enlightenment (and consequently freedom from the jealous Demiurge, the God of Abraham?)

          • sarenth

            There is a way around not painting them with that brush: don't paint them with the brush. Don't let others do it either. *shrugs* I'm not worried about what the monotheists think about Satanists because from the get-go most of their minds are made up, and for those who will come around they will ask questions or at least listen to what Satanists or their allies/friends have to say about them. Convincing people who are in lockstep with one another that they have "the way" is nigh-impossible until they're willing to let doubt in. A lot of these groups that Pagans and Satanists alike have problems with don't like doubt, debate, or honest dialogue in a lot of cases. Are all monotheists polytheist-bashers? No. Are all Satanists perfect rays of sunshine? No more or less so than other people I know. However, I don't expect to convince others of this who have no ears to listen and no mind to let new information into. Here is what I do know:

            No Satanist that I know of or have read about has called upon a God or Goddess to bury a whole nation in tragedy for not following their "one right way". No Satanist I know of or have read about has called for death and destruction for non-believers, especially the way these 3rd Wave Pentecostals have.

      • Tea

        Agreed. "Satanic" only works as a synonym for "evil" if Satan is your enemy. Satan is the Christians' boogeyman, not mine.

    • Bogomil

      Actually, I am pretty sure this is really good, old fashioned Christianity.

  • Neville Thunderbelly

    One of the regrettable things in my young adulthood in the late 1980s and early 1990s was becoming involved with Third Wave and related groups. And I have spent years since warning people how fanatical, rigid, violent and frankly EVIL they are. They believe it is their destiny to, by force of arms as necessary, take "dominion" over the Earth and everyone on it so they can deliver it as a gift of faithfulness for their messiah's expected return. They are dangerous. Congress wastes its time and energies on its (racist) "hearings on Muslims."

    These are the people who are the greatest threat to what's left of the Republic. While individually ignorant, gullible and rather impotent, I've been in mass gatherings and they know how to summon power as a group. They don't understand the first thing about what they're doing, like a child playing with its father's gun.

    • Leea

      They are dangerous. Congress wastes its time and energies on its (racist) "hearings on Muslims."

      Right Neville! was (sadly) amused that Rep. King was a big supporter of the IRA. when he was called on it, his reply was that they never attacked America…what hypocrisy and def. racist. Otherwise I would think there would also be hearings on native Militia's-who umm… attack America.

    • Baruch Dreamstalker

      Neville, your time spent with Third Wave, etc was not wasted. You learned some stuff that you can now teach the rest of us. Clearly you remained strong during your ordeal.

      • Neville Thunderbelly

        No, I survived it. I bought into it completely at the time. They are an outgrowth of so-called "Christian Reconstructionism," a violent philosophy which gained a huge amount of traction in pentecostal/charismatic circles. I've met a few of RJ Rushdoony's "disciples." They are wholly dedicated, and not the least bit sane.

        • Crystal7431

          Ugh, Rushdoony. That name gives me the chills.

        • Headless Unicorn Guy

          I've heard about Christian Reconstructionists (TM) during the Eighties and Nineties.

          I used to call them "The-Handmaid's-Tale-For-Real types".

          Now I call them "The Christian Talibani."

    • caraschulz

      Neville – would you mind speaking with me a bit more (email) about this? If so – let me know.

    • Neville, you have a good point, except you're missing the fact that a lot of Muslims feel about their religion the same way these "Third Wave" Christians feel about theirs.

      Also Islam is not a race, therefore one cannot be "racist" against Islam. The only ones who truly believe Islam is a "race" are Muslims who view Non-Muslims as animals and sub-humans. In essence, by agreeing that questioning Muslims is "racist" you are agreeing that you, as a non-Muslim, are less than human, and likely the descendant of a pig or a monkey, by their own scriptures.

      • cinna

        I doubt most of us would argue we're all descendants of monkeys here. 😀

        • Actually, according my path, I'm descended from a couple trees and the gods and goddesses.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      I have long maintained that when Christianity goes sour, it resembles Islam.

      "They believe it is their destiny to, by force of arms as necessary, take "dominion" over the Earth and everyone on it so they can deliver it as a gift of faithfulness for their messiah's expected return" is functionally identical with the Twelfth Imam Cult of Iran or the Global Restored Caliphate rhetoric of al-Qaeda and similar X-Treme Islamists.

      "Nothing's worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God."
      — Captain Mal Reynolds, Free Trader Serenity

      Yes, there is. A Monster who KNOWS He's Right With God.
      Absolute Power plus Utter Righteousness is a REAL ugly combination.

      • I think everyone should all just get together for a global movie night and watch Firefly. I know a lot of people who could learn something(s).

  • Jennifer Parsons

    Initial response:….

    Secondary response: Go to Dybing's FirstGiving link and donate a little more money to MSF.

    Tertiary response: Bandage head.

  • gidget commando

    "Let’s send a message that the true spirit of Japan will never die, and will certainly not bend to these vultures who pretend to preach the word of Christ."

    I do so hope there is a Christ in their afterlife. Can you imagine how mightily PO'd a Christ would be to see those clowns crapping all over his work?

    • Jennifer Parsons

      Jesus wept, indeed.

  • As a Christian I've been concerned with this group as well. Many of them teach "Dominion Theology" which is so counter Jesus that it takes my breath away.

    • Neville Thunderbelly

      You have reason to be. Once they're done cleansing we "wordly" folk, they will turn in on themselves. It's a cult-of-personality authority structure that is fanatical about "doctrinal purity."

      • MertvayaRuka

        As with all groups obsessed with ridiculous notions of "purity", the "pure" group always gets smaller and the purges don't ever stop…

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        Once they're done cleansing we "wordly" folk, they will turn in on themselves. It's a cult-of-personality authority structure that is fanatical about "doctrinal purity."

        After the Infidels are no more, they start on the Heretics.

        What do predators eat after they've killed off all the prey?

  • I. Speak ill of no other man's god and do not tolerate any man who would speak ill of yours.

    II. Every increasing autocratic government, adoption of a state religion and erosion of the traditions of the state…This was ROME during what we call 'the decline' right before 'the fall.'

    Troublesome…troublesome indeed.

    • Neville Thunderbelly

      A fall which collapsed right into the arms of…well whadda ya know?

  • The craziness of these groups is terrifying. I saw another thing yesterday too on youtube, wherea little moslem girl was answering questions. She was asked " What is the worst sin? " Her answer of polytheism was correct. Why dson't people understand these monomtheistic religions are built as political forces? What greater force than the hate of ignorant people?

    • The righteous fury of a Pagan or Heathen striking back in the names of Gods and Kin.

      • chuck_cosimano

        How many machine guns and tanks do Pagans have? The record of wars agains the monotheists is not very good.

        • Bookhousegal

          Tanks? Machine guns? Lady, who needs anything so coarse.

          The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to what we can do for later compression into a montage.

          *lighting cigarillo.*

          I love it when a wyrd comes together. 🙂

  • Neville Thunderbelly

    Hmm, meant "wordly," but "wordly" works, too. 😉

  • It's also very important to emphasize just how much the "third-wavers" have in common with the vast majority of their fellow-Christians. Catholics, for example, up to and including the Pope, still regularly use literally "demonizing" rhetoric when talking about non-Christian religions. In fact, the Catholic Church is running hard to the right to keep up with the Pentecostalists, especially in African and Latin America.

    Theologically speaking, even the most deranged rantings about spiritual warfare can be traced directly back to the ideas of "mainline" Protestant figures such as King James I, John Wesley, Cotton Mather and Jonathan Edwards (not to mention the evil twins themselves, Luther & Calvin).

  • Nice of them to fess up. Can we bill them for clean-up and lost income?

    • I agree, Let's bill them for the damages, then take them before the courts and the Things and lay the charges at their feet. We could get rid of these people fast and easy.

  • Haakon

    I wonder how these same xians would explain the February 2011 mag 6.8 quake that hit Christchurch, New Zealand which all but destroyed their cathedral’s 130-year old spire. Let’s not forget their mag 7.1 one back in September 2010. And how about the mag 8.8 quake which devastated Chile (88% xian) in February 2010? One has to wonder what all these good xians are doing to piss off jesus so much. Oh wait. We know, don’t we?

    • Oh, that's easy. The people hurt in those earthquakes weren't "real" Christians. Catholicism isn't Christianity, according to their logic. But even if you're a Protestant, if you're not in the right denomination, you'll still end up in hell.

      For contrast, I present "Love Wins" by Rob Bell. There are sane and loving Christians. They just don't shout as loudly.

  • Daniel

    The US/Them dialectic runs rampant in Christianity and warps Christ's teaching of Compassion and Justice. He was most certainly someone who challenged the establishments of both the Pharisees (cough, cough–a similarity with these thumping idiots), and the worldly establishments of Rome and King Herod. What's ironic here is that these so-called Christians lack any kind of hallmarks of Christian Teachings, such as Love, Compassion, Generosity, Charity, Kindness, Humility, ect. They are so anti-thetical to such teachings that they are Christian in name only. By their own standards, they curse and, henceforth, by their very own definition of witchcraft in the stereotypical diabolic sense–practice literal satanism. People like these are just plain rotten to the core and evil–and even that is an understatement.

    • Neville Thunderbelly

      If Christ was a "friend to sinners," then what is anti-Christ…?

      • Daniel

        The anti-Christ 😉

      • If the anti-Christ is the opposite of a "friend to sinners" and thus an "enemy to believers," then by all means I would welcome his arrival, lol

        • Hi, I'm the anti-Christ!

          • Welcome, welcome… did you sunglasses for the believers? Once they open their eyes, the light of awareness is going to be awfully bright after so many years of darkness.

    • Actually, that one is easy. Christ's teaching were actually pretty close to the Buddha's teachings. The problem is you got a radical Jewish convert by the name of Saul/Paul (who I think was a Pharisee?) Who completely changed the message into what we see today.

      • Crystal7431

        Yeah, Paul was a major douche.

  • Christine

    Considering that the Great Recession started on Bush's watch, they would be hard pressed to prove that. Unless they claim that as a Senator, he shagged her for his election win.

    • Baruch Dreamstalker


      • Josh

        No, Obama was a Senator under Bush's watch.

  • Does anyone know if this group is connected to Sarah Palin's church? We recall that her church "was at war with the Queen of Heaven" They certainly sound similar. Coming up in May, I'm having Charlene Spretnak on Voices of the Sacred Feminine discussing Christian groups like Palin's who are distorting the Queen of Heaven identidy.

    • Jason Pitzl-Waters

      Same folks, check out the links.

    • Palin is definitely connected to and a major figure in the whole Third Wave thang. But her church is solidly "First Wave". The Assemblies of God was founded in 1916, and it was formed from churches that came directly out of the Azusa Street revival of 1905.

      Each successive "wave" of Pentecostalism has had three characteristics: (1) growth in overall numbers of Pentecostalists, (2) increased social acceptance and "legitimacy", at least in the US, of Pentecostalism, and (3) increased politicization of Pentecostalism in a reactionary direction. Since 1905 Pentecostalists have gone from a small, socially marginalized, and relatively liberal movement, to a huge, powerful, neo-fascist movement. Probably more than anyone else, the central figure in this overall transformation was Billy Graham.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        I remember in 2008 the Christianese plugging of Sarah Palin as "God's Anointed", "Deborah", "Latter-day Queen Esther", the scenarios where Christians elect McCain, McCain dies in office, and "God's Anointed Is On The Throne."

        It wasn't just Obamaniacs who were into Messiah Politics that year.

        And now, just as Obama presented himself as The Great Black Hope who would Save us from first the Clinton Royal Family then the Bush Royal Family, Palin has become The Great White Hope who will Save us from the Obamanation of Desolation.

        I'm tired of living in a South Park episode…

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      I can't help remembering that in my church, "Queen of Heaven" was a poetic title for St Mary.

      But then, the branches of Christianity these Third Wavers come from have always been rabidly anti-Catholic. And Mary-bashing has been a major pastime for rabid anti-Catholics.

      I understand this list is primarily neo-pagan. Well, let me tell you something. When that sort of true believer has cleansed the Earth of Infidels, he'll start on the Heretics. "What do predators eat after they've killed off all the prey?"

      And when you factor in the theoretical end state of Protestantism — millions of One True Churches, each with only one member, each denouncing all the others as Heretics — it goes further. (A Wiccan told me once that the reason a coven is limited to 13 is because larger than that and it becomes unstable — factions form around leader-types and there's a split. Well, guess what — people are people and the same thing can happen to other groups than covens.)

  • Jack Tyler

    I'd like to take this moment to thank the Gods for all of the Christians who wound up sane, pluralism loving, and genuinely good people in spite of the best efforts of the individuals and groups who are the topic of this post. Rather than disabusing them of their Christianity by insinuating that they couldn't possibly be good people and good Christians we should support them and hold them up as an example to their less-than-well-intentioned coreligionists. They are what being a follower of Christ should be if Christ is to be a loving god in more than name only.

    • saffronrose

      Hear, hear!

  • fyreflye

    I just wanted to mention that if there are any here who feel closer to
    Buddhism than to any of the Pagan faiths they can donate to Japanese earthquake relief through Tzu Chi Foundation whose workers, like Doctors Without Borders, are on the ground there and helping with search and rescue, soup kitchens and shelter. As one who feels close to both the Buddhist and Pagan communities I have given equal donations through both Tzu Chi and Peter’s umbrella group, but I hope that more readers of this news blog will find it in their hearts to dig deep and contribute using whichever group feels right to them.

    • It's a shame we don't have any groups of Pagan or Heathens to go there ourselves and lend a helping hand. It would do a lot for us to show the Pentacle and the Mjolnir as banners of aid, rather than as symbols mis-read as devil worship and hate.

      • Baruch Dreamstalker

        I'm sure there are plenty of Heathens and Pagans who'd be willing to put in the travel and time. Problem is, we don't have the organization. I've been Pagan for 24 years and I've watched us develop institutionally, but we still haven't crossed the threshold that would permit this kind of action. I hope the next generation can do it.

  • Atheris

    I've read the four gospels over and over: Mathew Mark Luke John, Mathew Mark Luke John, etc. It doesn't take long to get to know who Jesus was and what he was about. He was concerned about people as individuals, both their physical as well as spiritual well-being. He never put religious tradition or dogma over the needs of the people. He loved all people and often had some positive things to say about the Pagans that he met. (The Roman Centurion for example) The only people he was against were the religious zealots of his day, and of course, those zealots, like today, had political power. That's why he was crucified.

    I look at modern, conservative Christianity, whether Catholic, Evangelical or whatever, and I stand in amazement at how far away from the teachings of Jesus they've strayed. I feel that the more conservative they get, the more un-Christ like they become. I find that moderate to liberal Christians do a better job of staying true to the teachings of Christ.

    I recently watched the movie "Quo Vadis". If modern Christianity was like how it was portrayed in that movie, I would probably still be a Christian.

    • Jennifer Parsons

      I'm reminded of a homily given by a female priest at a Mass I attended with my (very liberal, obviously) Catholic brother. She mentioned that not much had changed since the time of Jesus of Nazareth: organizations like NAR and extremely conservative Protestants (who would "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel") were like Pharisees, while the Catholic Church (who had excommunicated her for being a priest and having a vagina at the same time) were like Sadducees. Left behind were people who were disenfanchised– the poor, women, religious and ethnic minorities (Samaritans, Roman centurions, and the like).

      I have my doubts that even early Christianity was much like that seen in Quo Vadis (good movie, though). But I can understand why so many people followed and had hope in someone who actually treated them like they were worth something.

    • Let us hope our Pagan and Heathen paths do not follow the same roads.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        Then police yourselves. There are probably neo-pagans out there who just plain hate Christians to the point that if they were in power over Christians, they'd probably start a Reverse Burning Times.

        When you're on top, there's always a temptation to throw your weight around.

      • From your lips to our gods' ears, N.A.!

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      Atheris, there are Christian blogs that (at least partially) agree with you, out in the Post-Evangelical Wilderness. Internet Monk and Christian Monist are the first two I can think of, and going down the links from their sites will probably find you more.

      • Headless Unicorn Guy

        Another Christian blog (with sporadic activity these days) is Onward, Forward, Toward (formerly Totem to Temple). He's been warning against these "Third Wavers" and their "Charismatic Witchcraft" and "Penteparanoia" for years.

  • Ursyl

    Reading, reading, reading.

    Will be donating to Doctors Without Borders, but much as I appreciate Peter's effort, there are fees being taken from donations via that route, as well as no lock indicating security when I go there. That could be a Mac thing? I don't know, so I'll just make my donation directly to DWB, so the entire amount goes to them.


    The dominionists sicken, as well as frighten, me.

  • ME4

    I am a Christian & this type of stuff, just sickens me. They remind me of Reverend Jones. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I love & respect all people's belief's & their right to practice, just as long as no one is hurt.

  • It is an unfortunate symptom of modern culture that
    It has been so influenced by ‘PCness’, Science and
    “rationality” that persons who do believe that the Spirit
    World influences the natural world are labeled ‘kooks’

    Throughout all our respective lives we have all been presented with
    The image of the ‘sandwich board’ prophet, the barbarous
    animal-skinned lunatic, and even the character of the ‘mad scientist’
    Who proclaim their worldview, revelations or hidden truths with such zeal
    it is often frightening or offensive to others.
    The most recent example I can draw for you is Grampa Simsons’ prophetic possession
    on the floor screaming “EPA…EPA” in the film.

    In modern culture, “civilized” people have come to regard this type of behavior as laughable or dangerous.

    As I pointed out to a friend the other day, how many people currently
    in treatment for a “psychological disorder” would be living comfortably
    or even respected for their “deviant” beliefs or affectations if people were
    still living tribally and still had a shaman to look after their communities?

    While I certainly disagree with any concept that provides the Christian god with power
    over cultures that are not even his…(well, I disagree with the existence of that particular deity)…and I feel that this group has been utterly callous in their response to such a
    horrific tragedy, I would like to point out that they are practicing a sort of
    diseased oracle-ship in which they view their god as striking against an enemy.
    Our communal histories are filled to the brim with stories of our prophets, bards and viziers gaining insight from various types of divination…averting tragedies, mending the sick and conjuring enormous magics with the power (read Consent) of our gods.
    Are we then too modern….to PC….too rational to speak out when we truly believe
    We’ve been sent a message for the Spirit world? (especially if that message involves our friends or families or communities?)

    As I am loathe to admit it, they (like Westboro) have the right to speak out especially
    concerning what they believe to be divine inspiration.

    Therefore, I would humbly suggest that, we do not concentrate on the modern concept that nothing can be divinely inspired or that anyone who claims to have a message from the gods is crazy, rather, if we shame them…let us shame what should be shamed…the monstrous schadenfreude of this group.

    • I agree, I actually wondered if the earthquake and tsunami weren't the work of some Japanese equivalent of the Jotun or Titans. Perhaps it is a Youkai or a Kami that has acted there. Or these "Third Wavers" did manage to make their god hit Japan. Let us not rule out the spirits.

  • psanaurius

    I don't know, "Third Wave" is starting to sound more like "Third Reich"!

    • Pagan Puff Pieces

      So, what are the first and second waves, then?

      • Kelly Dugery

        According to Wikipedia the "first wave" was the Pentecostal movement at the beginning of the 20th century and the second wave was the Evangelical movement that started in the 60's. This latest iteration of insanity started in the mid-80's

        • Pagan Puff Pieces

          Somehow I was expecting something bigger and more impressive, like claiming the First Wave to be the original evangelists way back in the beginning. It'd be tacky, I guess, but I'm still somewhat disappointed.

  • Riverbend

    Funny thing, when you mentioned Jacobs a while back the name rang a bell and after checking I realized she was the author of one of those anti-Harry-Potter-Pokemon-and-witches books, _Deliver Us from Evil_. I suspect those books are an attempt to snag people who aren't well-versed in Reconstructionism deeper into the movement b/c they're worried about their kids etc.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      In American Evangelical Protestantism (who have tried to redefine the word "Christian" as meaning them and them alone, never mind that their Bible was collated by the bishops of MY Church back when years AD were in the low three digits), there has always been a strong thread of Witchfinder-General, saving all us unwashed from ourselves. It's sort of a sanctified version of Kyle's Mom from South Park.

      When Star Wars was a big hit, it was getting denounced as Witchcraft (specifically, "The Force" was "Eastern Mysticism (TM)"); one local radio preacher (Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa) was obsessed with bashing Star Wars every chance he could find.

      And then there are three words: Dungeons. And. Dragons. I'm an old school D&Der, and we got targeted by the Satanic Panic of the Eighties, which has driven a wedge of mutual hostility between FRP Gamers and Real True Christians (TM) that continues to this day.

      Comic Books, Rock & Roll, D&D, Star Wars, and now Harry Potter. When Harry Potter is passe, there'll be another Crusade/Witch-hunt (Furries, maybe?) Kyle's Moms ALWAYS have to have A Cause to Be Important.

  • Nah, he probably slept with someone else, a Hawaiian deity or something.

    • Thelettuceman

      Only if they could prove residency.

    • chuck_cosimano

      Michelle is still mad at him and Bill said, "Damn, I was lucky to get an intern!"

  • Uh, I think you're missing the point of the 1st Amendment…it gives these "third wavers" the right to speak and believe this drivel. We send predator drones after radical Muslim Imams because those guys actually send people with guns and bombs to try and kill us and other non-Muslims.

  • Gump

    The sad/amusing thing about the Queen of Heaven that they hate so much is that she's described lovingly in the book of Revelation protecting the Christ Child from Satan. "Queen of Heaven" has been a common title for the Virgin Mary among Catholic and Orthodox for centuries.

    So they love God, but hate his mother. Go figure.

    • chuck_cosimano

      Probably they mistake her for God's mother-in-law.

      • Well, Jewish mothers in law are rather scary….

        • Pagan Puff Pieces

          But I can't think of one guilt trip that the Queen of Heaven's planted on someone.

          • Sam Urfer

            John 2:1-3

            "On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus also was invited to the wedding with his disciples. When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine." And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does this have to do with me? My hour has not yet come." His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

            To cut a long story short, the Queen of Heaven's guilt trip wins out in this episode.

          • Gump

            I dunno, I recall the Medjugorje and Fatima visions being pretty intense.

            But yeah, the point is, I see this as rooted in anti-Catholicism. It's the same thing that leads Jack Chick to trace the Eucharist to Satan worship.

  • Headless Unicorn Guy

    "We declared, “Awake, O north wind! Awaken the north wind, and cause this garden that has been enclosed by the enemy to open up so that these seeds of harvest will come forth.”

    — Incantation from a Cecil B DeMille Bible Epic, just before a (considerably-sanitized) child sacrifice to Baal-Chemosh

    Malefic Magic? No. Shit.

  • chuck_cosimano

    Well, I could start saying, "How dare these people take credit for my earthquake?" But someone would take me seriously.