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  • Going For the “Occult” Angle in Tucson Shooting

Going For the “Occult” Angle in Tucson Shooting

Jason Pitzl-Waters —  January 10, 2011 — 95 Comments

Saturday’s horrific attempted assassination of Arizona U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, along with the deaths of Federal judge John McCarthy Roll and five others, has many grasping for answers.  Why did 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner do this? Despite attempts from across the political spectrum to blame this on one ideology or another, his tortured, conspiratorial thinking seems to escape easy classification.

“I doubt people who say this is about politics have a good understanding of mental illness,” said Dr. Bob Dolgoff, medical director of Alta Bates Summit Medical Center‘s mental health division. “It could be conspiracy theories or men from outer space. The important thing here is, why wasn’t he in treatment?”

In the words of media consultant Andrew Sprung, who has analyzed Loughner’s Youtube ramblings, “this unfortunate insane individual is of no party or clique.” So it is dismaying that the NY Daily News, holding exclusive pictures of Loughner’s home, seems to be trying on an “occult” angle to see if it fits.

Loughner shrine.

NY Daily News photo.

“A sinister shrine reveals a chilling occult dimension in the mind of the deranged gunman accused of shooting a member of Congress and 19 others. Hidden within a camouflage tent behind Jared Lee Loughner’s home sits an alarming altar with a skull sitting atop a pot filled with shriveled oranges. A row of ceremonial candles and a bag of potting soil lay nearby, photos reveal. Experts on Sunday said the elements are featured in the ceremonies of a number of occult groups.“

Of course neither the Daily News journalists, nor the unnamed “experts” consider the possibility that the altar has no formal occult meaning. That it could be a product of his imagination, a manifestation of his distress, or playful seasonal potpourri left to rot as his mind deteriorated. Considering the fact that millions of people build altars every year with skulls and fruit, to ascribe a “chilling occult dimension” to this scene is jumping the gun to say the least. No doubt sensing an opportunity, I predict that it won’t be long before various “occult experts” start slithering out of the woodwork to give their “expert opinion” on the “occult” nature of Loughner’s short-lived reign of terror.

ADDENDUM: More on this from Star Foster at Patheos and USA Today.

In Paganism, Religion , , , , , , ,
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Jason Pitzl-Waters

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=511407690 Star Foster

    This seriously appears to me like any odd collection of junk in anyone's backyard: gardening supplies, outdoor lighting, leftover holiday decorations and oh, yeah, did we forget to dispose of those oranges/easter eggs/watermelon rinds?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=697888120 Rebecca Sekhmetbitu Vanderjagt

      I was thinking that the oranges could have fallen off a tree in someone's yard. They're in season in AZ now, IIRC.

    • Michael Lloyd

      That was the first thing I thought of as well – leftover Hallowe'en decorations. The second thing I thought of was when was the photographer in question going to be arrested for criminal trespass and violation of the homeowners' privacy?

  • Bookhousegal

    Ah, of course, the well-known, yet secretive occult secrets of the Rite of the Wal-Mart Plastic Skull and Bag Of Miracle Gro.

    Guaranteed to raise the dead thirty percent faster than old fashioned graveyard dirt.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=649965363 Lamyka L.

      This is a serious topic but damn did this post make me laugh really hard.

      • HaylieMV

        I know! Me to! The mention of Wal-Mart cracked me up!
        But I agree with Star Foster. It could just be random. Maybe a favorite spot for setting random stuff down. I know I do that! And also, it looks organized, so that could be an effect from OCD or something like that!

      • violeteach

        As a snowbird Tucsonan, looks to me like leftovers after a Dia de los Muertos celebration, where we even have an artsy parade: http://www.allsoulsprocession.org/ (click thru) and even the local libraries get in on the action: http://www.examiner.com/children-s-crafts-in-tucs…

        Skulls, representing death, duh, are prominent imagery, and everyone uses the 'offrenda' candles. Photos online, googling "tucson dia de los muertos" (top 4 links below and above) illustrate this.

        The young man probably twisted this all in his mind, as he did "grammar"…does that make grammar sinister?
        http://hubpages.com/hub/A-Dia-de-los-Muertos-Cele…
        http://www.examiner.com/day-trips-in-phoenix/dia-…

        • Bookhousegal

          Actually, the funny thing is, a lot of the Tea party set are in fact calling the shooter a 'Grammare fanatic,' as 'proof he's a liberal!'

          So in fact, it seems that grammar *is* sinister to some people. But I suppose we knew that. :)

  • bard08

    It was only a matter of time before the "insane man" was linked to the occult. People need to get more original.

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    Take away the skull and it's just a collection of junk.

  • kauko

    Quick! Everyone run to your backyards and remove that incriminating evidence of potting soil!

    • Dennis Nock

      gotta love how the press jumps on any nut ball case and calls it occult relates and the so called experts that agree. no wonder we , the pagan community has a bad reputation kilm

    • HaylieMV

      Yes! Quickly! Let's make our plants die in the name of the press!

  • kenneth

    I bet Don Rimer's appointment book is filling nicely….
    Sort of reminds me of an incident I had in my own home. I have a dresser in a hallway where I set a jar of stones and shells, a brass spittoon, a candle and other bricabrac. Some friends of ours who knew vaguely that I'm Wiccan spoke of it in low, reverential tones. "That altar must be very meaningful to you." "Yes," I said. "It's dedicated to all the crap I couldn't fit anywhere else in here."

    • sarenth

      *laughs* Thanks; that made my day.

    • Verac1ty

      Hey, I can find more meaning in that pile of junk than the pile pictured above. :)

      But I know what you mean. I have several aquaintances who are astonished because I am pagan and yet do not know the name of every tree and bush in the state on sight. I seriously get "I thought you were pagan?" and my reply is, a la Star Trek: "Jim, I'm a pagan, not a botanist!"

    • P.A.T.C.

      love it, sounds like my crap catching ' altar' in my kitchen.

    • Ravencadwell

      Yep, I'm pretty sure Donnie boy is having a field day with this one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1373273452 Kerri Bachler-Connor

    Who are the experts that were interviewed and to what part of the occult are these things common? Have to remember Pagan was not mentioned in this article. There may indeed be some occult practices that this is common. None that I am aware of which is why I would like to know who their non-named experts are and what practices exactly they are referring too, but luckily the word "Pagan" was not used. "Occult" is extremely broad based, and for all I know, there may be some orange worshipping group who uses an altar just like this

    • Bookhousegal

      Unfortunately, the self-styled 'occult experts' rarely make the distinction between 'Pagan' and 'Occult' and 'Santeria/Voddoo', 'Satanic' and 'Goth/Metal' …or… 'Halloween Cookies,' for that matter.

      That's kind of how they operate.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lillitu.shahar Lillitu Shahar Kunning

    Oh for crying out loud. Words fail me. Couldn't it as likely be it be that he forgot to pick up the candles and fake skull after his kegger headbanger party? Blerg.

    • HaylieMV

      It's very likely, but AS ALWAYS, the press twists stuff around to scare people to get ahead of the competition. It's ALWAYS about the competition. Also news channels do THE EXACT SAME THING! They add all these things to dive fear into people. Thousands of people die, and yet they only report on a few that are the most tragic, so that their ratings go up, because people who watch it, will tell their friends to tune in, and then the number of views go up. All they want to do is be the best by twisting things around. That's it. And it's CRUEL!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10131763 Mathew Devitt

    As an 'occult expert' I'd like to say that anyone who listens to heavy metal, goth metal or anything in that range probably has some affinity for skulls and bones without any linkage to the occult. I bet if you looked through his music selection you'd find all kinds of music with pictures of skulls and whatnot.

    • Khryseis_Astra

      Heck it's a fashion trend now! Look at the kid's section in any Target or Wal-Mart… the shirts are all covered with skulls.

      It's probably a left-over Halloween decoration.

  • Kurt

    Nice she is an attempted assassination the others are just deaths.. What a joke

    • Jason Pitzl-Waters

      What would you have preferred I said? Should I call the death of little girl an assassination? You seem to be reading way too much into that sentence, and looking to find some sort of flaw or offense.

    • Christy

      She's still alive – hence "attempted" because he didn't actually succeed. And she's a sitting member of congress and a political figure and it was her event – hence the term "assassination".

    • Baruch Dreamstalker

      The suspect was charged with crimes under federal law. State authorities have jurisdiction over the other deaths, and one assumes are waiting in line.

    • http://norsealchemist.blogspot.com Norse Alchemist

      Interesting point there. A nine year old girl is dead, but the only ones getting attention are the Fed Judge and the Congress woman, I don't even know anything about the others involved. A sad commentary.

    • violeteach

      All are deaths; assassination includes death, but with political implications…at first they called the Judge's death an assassination too, until it became clear, via eye-witness reports that J. was after Giffords.

  • Thor Conner

    i am slightly reminded of Colbert's Christmas special, when Jon Stewart was showing him the Chanukah ritual items.
    "there's candles"
    "what are those",
    "they're CANDLES!"

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1008131810 Chelsea Rose

    … that "altar" doesn't look half as chilling or alarming as mine does (or a number of people's that I know…) :

    • Shock

      Martha Stewart called. She wants her plant pots back. Oh, and the skull she bought at the temporary Halloween store down the street.

      Considering this is being touted as "chilling", it makes me wonder what they'd think of my four altars. I'm an Aztec Recon, so blood, real bones and scary iconography sometimes sporting fangs is involved.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Jimi45 Jimi Wilson

      And bless you for keeping it!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=667952307 Jennifer Parsons

    *facepalm*

    Need any more be said, really?

  • http://chrysalis1witchesjourney.wordpress.com/ Pax

    Ok, I just think we need to try and get the reporter or editor from the NY Daily News to get out a little more. I mean, I'm sorry, but I've seen a LOT more chillingly occult altars posted on peoples blogs for the High Holy Days… Someone totally needs to get Evn and Veles to give them some design lessons…

    I mean I am sure he was distracted by hallucinations and cleaning his gun, but c'mon, this like Mr. Laughtner wasn't even trying! …..HEY!!!

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

      Thanks for the "out the nose" moment, Pax. (Isn't there some way to have, "Don't drink coffee while reading this comment" flagging at TWH?)

  • Pitch313

    Are anonymous experts on the "occult" themselves exercising occult influence?

    I mean, if somebody claims to be an expert in the media, then let them be expert enough to use her or his name. So the rest of us can check out the articles and books and writings and videos. And get the full benefit of his or her expertise.

    • Perquisitor Omnia

      So I guess the actual human skull (as opposed to the plastic replica pictured here) I keep in my office as a memento mori makes me even more scary and occult yes? Honestly, I don't find the plastic skull and potting junk all that scary, occult, or even remotely interesting, it looks like a pile of junk.

      • HaylieMV

        Yup, I know. This whole "occult" thing is ridiculous.

  • KevinHayden

    Somebody better warn the NSA there's a coupla guys named Bush involved in secret rituals with a group called Skull & Bones.. It sounds far more sinister than Skull and Amateur Pot Growing Attempts With An Affinity For Oranges.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=649965363 Lamyka L.

    People aren't necessarily arguing against what you've written here, it's more that the word occult has been linked to something to be afraid of, retracted from, and/or something that causes people to be nut cases. While some "experts" may feel that what matters is how this man felt about what it's that picture it's a view into his mental state and not into the state of occultism.

    And let's be honest, if you had seen this photo outside of this story what would be your gut reaction? Most of us would say, "Damnit, clean up your crap in the backyard, ya lazy bum."

    • Jonathan

      No particular ideology?

      Profound antagonism toward "big government" is at the center of his political ramblings. The "2nd constitution" he references is the one which includes the 13th-15th ammendments, the ones he thinks we should do away with. His currency obsession is straight from Ron Paul's libertarianism. The federal judge murdered had taken a strong stand for immigrant rights. Connect the dots people, it's not too hard to figure out.

      There was a fake facebook account made today that showed he liked the "communist manifesto". Make no mistake, there is a deliberate attempt here to muddy the waters in what was obviously a premeditated political assasination, motivated by rightwing propaganda. This story has been immediately twisted by the media to deflect any attention away from the need for greater accountability in political discourse.

      Since when did mental problems preclude political acts? To me it seems that our nation's political discourse is deliberately tailored to the mentally insane.

      • Jonathan

        We can't even begin to imagine what the pundits would be saying if this were a left-wing act of violence. The government would probably introduce an expanded Patriot Act, and start shipping suspects away to Syrian jails. But instead, journalists issue premature paranoid assertations about free speech of the hateful (even though no laws have been proposed yet.) And everyone clings to their ignorance, refusing to see any political connotations. This is just like the case of Luis Posada. If an act of terrorism comes from the right it's not seen as terrorism at all. Modern criminology is defined in strictly ideological terms.

        As for the notion that we just need to all love each other and shy away from any confrontation in the face of such a devastating tragedy……I'm all for non-violence, acceptance and openness. But "being the better person" is not the same thing as being a door mat.

        • http://www.blog.greenconsciousness.org greenconsciousness

          Laws HAVE been proposed to limit the free speech rights of US citizens. Brady of PA is introducing legislation expanding Title 18 to criminalize PERCEIVED threats against fed officials by speech and symbols — those who make these ideological accusations against their political opponents will soon find their own mouths taped shut. What goes around, comes around.

        • http://norsealchemist.blogspot.com Norse Alchemist

          Well, for one, If there was a "left wing" act like this, you'd see just as much effort to muddy the waters, and we don't even know what motivated this guy. It could have been "left wing" as plenty of liberals feel they've been betrayed by their side and the Congress woman was a "Blue Dog" meaning somewhat more "conservative" than the rest of her party. I doubt we'd see expansions of the patriot act 'cause of this. there's still plenty of terrorists out there, don't need to make new ones.

          • Jonathan

            As far as I can remember, the obsession with "big government", conspiracy theories regarding currency manipulation, and assertations to reject the so-called "2nd Constitution" (the one that includes ammendments granting citizenship rights to people of color) are not a part of any left-wing ideology…..they are common features of certain fringe rightist groups.

            As far as I can remember, Mein Kampf wasn't a leftist manifesto. I kinda thought Hitler was a fascist.

      • Robin Artisson

        For the win!

      • http://www.blog.greenconsciousness.org greenconsciousness

        He did not know the federal judge would be there… Schizophrenia has no ideology.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Jimi45 Jimi Wilson

      I understand the case against jumping to firm conclusions and citing alleged "experts" but I'm not as confident that the consensus of those making the earliest claims was that this isn't an altar.

      If I had seen this outside this story my reaction would have been similar. The proximity of the skull, votives, and a thali-style tray full of ashes fairly screams altar or altar items. The expressed interest of Loughner in novels about alternative religion and in metaphysical concepts such as conscious/lucid dreaming only furthers my suspicions.

      I agree with the problematic usage of the term "occult" however.

      • Leea

        agree Jimi…

  • Jonathan

    Maybe it's the deadly silence that has been the most overlooked cause of these murders. The unwillingness to call out injustice, to make the media accountable for its overwhelming distortion of the facts.

    Remember Oklahoma City, the anti-choice nutjobs who killed "Tiller the Killer", remember the countless threats that Democratic lawmakers have faced in recent years….the rocks thrown through windows, the guns at rallies, the fights at town hall meetings…the diabolist-tinged racism mixed with cambat "metaphors".

  • http://alansalmi.com/ Alan Salmi

    The main thing here to remember is that Newspapers are in the business of selling news. If there isn’t news, they tend to grab any angle they can, this story being an excellent example of that practice. I’ve learned to watch out for this in any publication: Money magazine has article on what the best funds are, for example, because those funds advertise in their magazine. In Chicago, a local New Age magazine has an article about the owner’s alternative cancer treatment in which he gives each and every one of his practitioner’s page numbers for their ads. Follow the money and you get greater insight into what’s going on…..

    • HaylieMV

      Exactly. Look at my other post to see my views on the news system. (I talked to my aunt, who's a psychologist, to get the conclusion I did.)

  • Jonathan

    Yet respected journalists are acting as though this were a random shooting. As if he didn't leave a note explaining exactly what he was going to do.

    It's as if we were all suffering from a collective delusion that prevents us from seeing the truth.

  • http://egregores.blogspot.com/ Apuleius

    Votive candles are more directly associated with Catholicism than with anything else. In fact, the use of such candles in Afro-Caribbean religions is borrowed from Catholicism.

    And putting an offering of fruit (oranges) on an altar is a ubiquitous practice in Buddhism and Hinduism.

    Skulls are a common motif in Tibetan Buddhism.

    I am not certain what religious tradition(s) to associate with the bag of miracle grow potting soil.

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

      Well, speaking as a White-Light Wiccan, while I've blessed my share of wildflower seeds, I would never be caught blessing Miracle Grow potting soil. It's not organic!

      ;-p

    • Leea

      Well, like Jimi said, it appeared to be an appropriation. Meaning-a little of this, a little of that. Untrained, unaffiliated but interested, IMHO.

  • Zaratha

    Guys, as a lifelong New Yorker, I'd just like to let you know that the Daily News is a tabloid only slightly above the UK's Daily Fail in journalistic integrity. Sensationalistic bullshit non-stories like these are par for the course for this rag, the sleazier the better.

    If the Times runs with it, then it's time to worry.

    • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

      LOL right? I was going to get all up in arms but then I saw it was the Daily News and went 'Oh."

      This is the same paper that super-imposed Governor Patterson's face over Captain Kirk and ran with "Beam me up Scotty!" as a legit headline.

    • HaylieMV

      I really don't like the way in which the press is twisting it around. I know why though. It's because they want to get better ratings, more money and they want to beat their competitors. All it is, is publicity. They drive fear into those who are dumb enough to seriously believe it, and then they prompt their friends to buy the same paper. The news does the same thing. Thousands of crimes are committed each day, and thousands of people are murdered or have committed suicide each day, but they take the most tragic and most painful stories, and report on those to make everything sound so horrible, so that people call up their friends and tell them to tune in, and then, WHAT DO YOU KNOW! Their ratings go up because of the number of views, and they start to get more money, and they start to beat their competitors. It's all a fight to be the best and the richest. The US has become an EXTREMELY greedy country.
      I have commented on other posts saying similar things as well.

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

      Oh, I'd be worried if USA Today ran it; my standard of worry is not as high as yours. But, yeah, the Daily News is just ever so slightly less hysterical than the National Enquirer or Britain's Daily Mail. So, no need to hyperventilate just yet.

    • Jane

      They keep showing it on the Today Show, too, but I think it might fall in the same tabloid-ish genre.

    • Bookhousegal

      Well, the fact is, I don't particularly believe their claims to be 'Daily, or 'From New York',' never mind 'News.' :)

      But they do get memes started, wherever their 'exclusive photos' come from.

  • Ymptree

    Thank you, Jimi, you took the words out of my mouth. My first thought on seeing the photo was "someone's trying to approximate a prenda."

    I agree with the consensus here that the use of "occult" and the implication of an "occult motivation" is problematic, but sometimes disturbed people are interested in alternative spiritualities, too, and anybody can try to dabble.

  • http://rootandrock.blogspot.com Scylla

    If we're going to be jumping on the blame-wagon, by all means, let us jump fairly.

    1: It could be a shrine to an Orisha. Clay pots are generally used to house them, unless I am very mistaken. Oranges are particularly favored by Oshun. The skull? Not so sure. 2: It could be a Ofrenda that has been left out since the Day of The Dead. That one fits quite well. 3: It could be a pile of assorted junk from his back yard that he ditched in the nearest empty receptacle – a clay pot. Also highly likely.

    Is it predictable for "occult" links to be made? Hell yes it is. I think I saw at least six tweets on my personal "follow" list that saw that one coming. It's also predictable for Pagans to immediately plug their ears against the idea that someone who's not "Big Three" might've gone bug-flipping-nutty and shot people.

    Let's take a step back and realize there are just as many people holding "Occult" beliefs, performing "Occult" rituals and being absolutely INSANE as in any other group, by percentage. You know what that means? We're a regular group of people, amongst which is the regular number of mismanaged mentally ill individuals. We're normal! GASP! Shock!

    We need to wait for the authorities to do their investigation/s, and review any findings with a critical, and impartial eye. Then progress with possibly explaining to news outlets, yet again, that Pagans are just like every other group, containing the same number of mismanaged crazies. But, alas… we're far more interested in doing exactly what the rest of society does – swearing the ill people don't exist, aren't our responsibility, aren't part of our group.

    • Bookhousegal

      Actually, assuming this tabloid 'exclusive photo is even genuine, (Haven't the parents been in an FBI standoff since this started?) it's fairly common that some kinds of crazy people take an interest in 'deathy' trappings, but that doesn't mean they're 'involved in the occult,' or even have an idea what it is… an anti-immigrant, quite possibly white-nationalist guy celebrating the Orisha for the Dia De los Muertos is something that doesn't fit. Assuming of course, the young man's as mixed-up as he appears, who's to say what's going on, …it's all pretty thin.

      And it's not just this story: it's the pattern these tabloids have of trying to do this sort of thing at *any* opportunity and how rarely there's substance to it at all. It certainly is pretty thin to start drawing many conclusions from a photo of, well, not much. But that still constitutes part of the general tabloid media job we see all too often.

      Then again, who knows who even put it there,

      • http://www.facebook.com/stenobauer Cathryn Bauer

        It is human nature to attempt to find some reason for unreasonable, insane behavior like this. Yes, ascribing an occult motive is grasping at straws. But it's probably easier to blame some vague evil element than it is to admit that we live in a society that falls flat in caring for the needy of any persuasion. We have all been traumatized by this shooting to a certain extent and are reacting accordingly. This too shall pass. I just wish our perpetual neglect of the mentally ill would, as well.

    • Ian

      I'm all for the reasoned thought that this could be a dabbler's effort to mimic something folks might call 'occult'–I quite like how Jimi Wilson described it early on. It is worth noting that the way in which the material was stacked suggests an altar–you have to balance that clay pot on that pot beneath, not carelessly toss it atop it.

      However, we ought to avoid rampantly over-speculating, esp. with evidence as disparate as that provided by the photo and the shabby reporting attached to it. With the picture, we can't even be sure it is potting soil in the bag. It's a bag, and like most bags, it can hold a lot of different stuff. We can't even be sure the picture was taken in Loughner's backyard.

      Speculating what sort of shrine it might be puts the cart well before the horse. (Btw, Oshun? Really, just because there are oranges and a clay pot? That kind of logic is what gets every random bit of animal remains found in public places labeled 'Santeria'!)

      Just to consider other broad possibilities as things to consider before we get to that stage:

      It is deliberately an occult reference without being intended to have occult purposes (i.e. "let's make a spooky prop").

      It is possible the whole thing is staged by the photographer because it is sensational and might make them some money. The 'dabbler' may not be Loughner at all.

  • Joy

    Oh yeah. Potting soil. It's so sinister. <sigh>

  • http://www.bryonmorrigan.blogspot.com BryonMorrigan

    Of course, the Right-Wing couldn't WAIT to use this as a reason to advocate attacking Pagans (with deliberate misinformation).

    "Why don't we hear congressmen talking about banning Wicca in the military? Or banning the occult in America? This shooter was a stone-cold devil-worshiper! A left-wing pot-smoking lunatic!" — Michael Savage

    Yep. Keep supporting guys like this. They are so awesome.

    • Crystal7431

      Is this quote about this particular incident? Just wondering.

      • 7th_Pillar

        Having lived in The Blasted Lands (Arizona) the elements of this alleged "altar" would likely be found in almost any Arizona yard –

        -Potting Soil
        -Empty flower pots
        -Wind-Proof Candles
        -Mummified Citrus
        -Left-over Halloween decor item…

        Even the arrangement of these items seems to be somewhat random. While it is possible that this person wished to use rites and rituals, none of this appears dark or dangerous to a sane observer.

        • grimmorrigan

          I never liked grinding in the Blasted Lands.

      • TeNosce

        Potting soil! He's probably an 'orchid person,' and we know how weird and fanatical they are. He should be behind bars. They're almost as bad as bird people.

    • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

      Seriously? Michael Savage has said this? Is there a link?

    • http://www.bryonmorrigan.blogspot.com BryonMorrigan

      I don't see any of the replies to this here that I've gotten notices of in my email.

      But to answer Cat C-B's question: A horror novelist friend of mine, Ray Garton, was listening to Savage last night and copied down his words to post online. I can't find any place to get a transcript or audio of his show from last night, however. Of course, none of this seems out of character for the guy, either way…and Ray's an Atheist, so he doesn't have a "dog" in this fight.

      • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

        No, it does not seem out of character–at least, if my Google-fu has yielded a representative picture. But I do like corroboration when it's available. (If you run into one, I'd appreciate the link, for instance.)

        My interest is piqued in part because, with the exception of the NY Daily News, I'm not yet hearing of this occult-link theory getting picked up by other media–left or right.

        • http://www.bryonmorrigan.blogspot.com BryonMorrigan

          It looks like just another blog, but this guy is reporting the same comment from Savage:
          http://dangerousintersection.org/2011/01/11/takin…

          • http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/ Cat_C_B

            Thanks, Bryon.

    • http://www.bryonmorrigan.blogspot.com BryonMorrigan

      FTR: I _still_ keep coming across Wiccans and Pagans on the web who claim to be fans of Savage. I bet a lot of them even voted for Bob Barr. It's time to grow a spine and denounce those on the Right-Wing who actively campaign against Pagans. Cowards.

  • Pagan Puff Pieces

    I want to ask, "Could you be a little more specific than that?," but this IS the Daily News, after all.

  • Crystal7431

    I really need to get some of that occult potting soil.

    • http://www.blog.greenconsciousness.org greenconsciousness

      This is so funny i burst out laughing. I give you the "Best Comment of the Day" award.

      • Verac1ty

        Whether this pile of items was meant to be significant or not, whether it's meant to be an altar of some kind or not, what is far scarier to me is the semantics used in the article:

        "sinister"
        "chilling"
        "occult"
        "alarming"
        "ceremonial candles" (I don't see any markings that make them ceremonial.)

        These items may have indeed been put together with some significance, "deranged" or not. But it would seem just as likely that some reporter for NYDN stacked them together and took a photo. Either way, the only sinister thing is the action this person took.

        and of course, the infamous:
        bag of potting soil

        "Experts on Sunday said the elements are featured in the ceremonies of a number of occult groups." Miracle Gro is featured in ceremonies in a number of occult groups? Seriously?

        If NYDN had found a crucifix in the guy's house, would they have printed a headline about him nailing an image of a man being tortured to death to two pieces of ceremonial wood?

  • violeteach

    Ask any local member of TAWN. (www.tawn.org) = Tucson Area Wiccan-Pagan Network…these items are ubiquitous in Tucson, for !both! Catholics and Pagans, along with many others non-affiliated, because of the greater community's celebration of "Day of the Dead" (Dia de los Muertos)…I have included links here in my post (#75, I think) or just google: Tucson Dia de los Muertos

    • Ben

      This altar does fit an altar in hoodoo or like tradition.

      "Votive candles are more directly associated with Catholicism than with anything else. In fact, the use of such candles in Afro-Caribbean religions is borrowed from Catholicism."

      Considering that in hoodoo and other afro-caribbean paths did borrow heavily from catholicism and other cultures they encountered. It does look like say an altar used for hoodoo or the like set by someone who has limited means and possibly just starting. Especially in hoodoo, you use what you can get.
      Now all the goody goodies out there (you know what I mean) may freak out, but face the reality that occult and pagan are terms that cover other paths not as light and fluffy, that do have their dark side to them and DON'T follow any 3-fold 'law'.
      Considering this case though, one needs to realize that even if he was in fact practicing any occult or pagan tradition one does not represent the whole and his practices do not hold relation to his shooting of those people.

  • http://egregores.blogspot.com/ Apuleius

    If you want to see something that really looks "occult", just check out the impromptu shrine that has appeared at the University Medical Center (where the survivors have been treated, and where Giffords still is): http://img3.allvoices.com/thumbs/event/609/480/70…

  • druideric

    Much ado about nothing. Indicative of a prevailing mainstream bias/agenda. May the injured be healed. May the dead be honored. Let's move on

  • http://sari0009.xanga.com KarenAScofield

    They often do try to blame liberalism, the occult and even autism despite the fact that many millions of Americans are at least one of those, some are all three and the vaaaaaaaast majority of them are not going to do a Loughner.

    Not to mention that Loughner was a documented independent, that thar ain't no altar/shrine and even if it were, like you pointed out, Jason, many millions have skulls on their shrines every Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead) and they they don't go on shooting rampages *either.*

    Enough with journalists trying to revive old moral panics and I wish people would stop looking at autism as a sign of a potential rampage shooter or something. A lot do that. They hear so many people so often conjecture that this or that suspect might have been autistic that they start getting that way.

    A little basic logic tells us while some ____ may become violent psychotics, not all violent psychotics are _____ and that there is no religion exempt from the criminal, insane, stupid, or embarrassing

  • http://notnewyork.org Onalistus Reveler

    Here's a little story about the killer and his interest in the film Zeitgeist and gold-back economies. That said, it's not like any of this has anything to do with the actual killings, but might be some health food style junk food for the brain….